Full range speaker suggestions - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I will try to be concise.
Here's my setup:
Shunyata power conditioner
Musical Fidelity tube buffer (soon to become X-DAC v8 w/built in tube buffer)
Macintosh computer as source
Manley Mahi tube mono blocks

As you can see, there is no preamp. That's sort of the reason I picked the Mahi's, high sensitivity. Another reason was it's ability to play rock or bass heavy content.

I had Magnepan MMGs with a tiny Pinnacle sub for low end. They were great, but it's time for a change.

I specifically want to eliminate the stand alone subwoofer from the equation. I want 2 full range speakers. But they have to be versatile. Here's why: the content is all over the map. From Rock music to video games... movies.... accoustic performances... television. You name it. I am going to ask these speakers to handle it... and handle it well. Except for rap and country!

Somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000 would be nice.

I want a speaker that doesn't have the localized sweet spot like the Magnepan's have.
irishpatrick33 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 08:04 PM
Senior Member
 
JCarls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It seems there are almost too many speakers in that range, and yet trying to audition just a half dozen of them can take you on a 1000 mile field trip to find all the dealers. I can only tell you that I am continually impressed with the Paradigm and Monitor Audio lines as versatile, well designed, well built, get-a-lot-for-your-money speakers. In the Paradigm range you're kind of caught between the high end of the Studio series and the low end of the Signature series, but I'd say check them out if you can find a dealer. The Monitor Audio GS60s might nicely handle your full-range requirement. They are listed at $4K, but if you like them, an alternative is to get their predecessors (GR60) which can still be had new/discontinued for $2K. I have the GR60s, and I am finding that my old sub is now useless to me.
JCarls is offline  
post #3 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, there's so many options out there. Which is why I'm looking for suggestions to shrink the list of possibilities.

I had Paradigm Studio 100's about 3 years ago. Version 2 I believe. I liked them. Though I was using the Servo 15 with them, hard to tell how much punch they had. Because that thing overpowered anything and everything.

I appreciate the suggestion. For the sake of trying something new, I don't think I'll go Paradigm again.
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #4 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 09:57 PM
Member
 
RabPaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Full Range to me means they can go down below 20Hz and they are no speakers I can think of @ around 3K that can do this.
Check out the Energy RC-70 great value for money at around 2K and they are efficient @92 db/M, 31hz-23Khz and can handle just about anything you can throw at them. See this review: RC-70
RabPaul is offline  
post #5 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 10:29 PM
Member
 
blazen69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a suggestion but one of the best full range speakers i have heard(and believe me i've heard them all) would be the Elac Fs 207.2. They are excellent. The ribbon tweeter is amazing. They are rated down to about 36hz.

http://www.elac.com/en/products/two1....php?c=fs207_2

I agree with RabPaul for full range a sub is almost unavoidable.However it depends on what you listen to. One of my favorite recordings is a cello and pipe organ combo from Gary Karr.Without a sub it always sounds empty because the pipe organ goes very low. The Elacs have a very nice bottom end but more then likely your musical tastes will dictate whether it will be enough for you. Most important quality they had when i listened to them was that they sound good with a wide variety of music.A 10 year warranty and all in house German construction as well. I recommend an audition if you can find them in your area.They will make the Paradigms sound like Radioshack speakers(just my opinion).
blazen69 is offline  
post #6 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No I am not looking for speakers capable of 20Hz. I'm assuming that good speakers in the 30's would eliminate the need for a subwoofer. I'm just trying to eliminate the subwoofer.

Efficiency isn't a big priority for me. Though everyone assumes that when they see the Mahi's specs. Don't believe it. They were pushing 4 ohm 86db Magnepans easy.
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #7 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 11:00 PM
Member
 
blazen69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I myself have bookshelves and a sub. I have thought about eliminating the sub also, mainly for aesthetic reasons. I heard the Elacs a few times always without a sub.
They didn't leave me wanting for much. They are not as widely available as some other brands but they are they best speaker i have heard in their price range and i have auditioned almost everything (quad, b&w,monitor,paradigm, jmlab, etc etc).
If you can find them give em a listen you won't be sorry. The bass is tight and quick. Not boomy at all. One thing to keep in mind when auditioning is that they need quite
a bit of break in time.
blazen69 is offline  
post #8 of 57 Old 08-12-2007, 11:07 PM
Member
 
Reid112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow those Energy speakers are really intriguing. Could you by any chance compare them to the Monitor Audio GS20s or GS60s? I have been seriously considering those speakers.
Reid112 is offline  
post #9 of 57 Old 08-13-2007, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I appreciate your suggestions and will explore those options. Alright, I've done some research. Most of these brands should qualify.

Stan White
Silverline Audio
Newform research
Living Voice
Luth X
Usher
Ikonoklast
?Ayon?

Most of those I've never heard of. They mostly seem to match the criteria though. Anybody have any experiences with those mentioned?
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #10 of 57 Old 08-13-2007, 02:21 PM
CLS
Senior Member
 
CLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
[quote=irishpatrick33]I will try to be concise.
Here's my setup:
Shunyata power conditioner
Musical Fidelity tube buffer (soon to become X-DAC v8 w/built in tube buffer)
Macintosh computer as source
Manley Mahi tube mono blocks



Nice system you currently have and to go up higher or shall I say a different experience level, I would add the ff:

Dynaudio
PMC
Audio Physic
Elac

Good luck

Vin
CLS is offline  
post #11 of 57 Old 08-13-2007, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Nobody has any experience with the brands I named, besides Usher? I actually found a positive Silverline review on Stereophile.

Those Stan White speakers intrigue me from the standpoint that Stan White seems to be a mad scientist from looking at his website. Literally. He's been making speakers since the forties..... not one single review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post

Nice system you currently have and to go up higher or shall I say a different experience level, I would add the ff:

Dynaudio
PMC
Audio Physic
Elac

Good luck

Thanks!
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #12 of 57 Old 08-14-2007, 07:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Give VMPS a look as well. I've listened to a ton of speakers over the last few years and am always happy to come back to my RM40s. The RM30s should be in your price range -- ribbon tweeter and midrange drivers (3), two woofers. They are fast-sounding, image well, coherent, dynamic and punchy.
rblnr is offline  
post #13 of 57 Old 08-14-2007, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
VMPS looks interesting.

Though after reading a review, I am bit scared. The review suggested that bi-amping is the way to go. Not that they sounded bad without it. But when they are bi-apmed is when they shined.

What, if any, has been your experience when not bi-amplified?
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #14 of 57 Old 08-14-2007, 06:22 PM
Member
 
Highend.nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well

i would say right now

*von schweikert vr4jr (which i am reviewing right now) a little over budget but second hand isn't so bad, their warranty is 20 years

*b&w 803S maybe?

*energy veritas

I really don't find any speakers that i can recommend below those prices....if you can't afford it right now i suggest you save a little more it'll be worth it

www.highend.nu

You can download Basta! loudspeaker simulator HERE!

Newest update (new category):
Crestmeasurements
Highend.nu is offline  
post #15 of 57 Old 08-14-2007, 08:18 PM
PAD
AVS Special Member
 
PAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Salk SOngTowers ad put some money in your pocket!.

http://www.salksound.com/songtower.shtml
PAD is offline  
post #16 of 57 Old 08-14-2007, 09:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAD View Post

Salk SOngTowers ad put some money in your pocket!.

http://www.salksound.com/songtower.shtml

There are some very nice speakers built by outfits like (and including) Salk Sound.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
post #17 of 57 Old 08-15-2007, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had another thought: Gallo Accoustics Reference 3.1

I have previously owned nucleus micro's. I liked them.

Anybody have experience with this speaker and could surmise about it's ability to fit the criteria. Also does anybody know anything about these names:
Stan White
Silverline Audio
Newform research
Living Voice
Luth X
Usher
Ikonoklast
?Ayon?
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #18 of 57 Old 08-15-2007, 07:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't bi-amp my VMPS RM40s and I don't think I'm missing anything. It is by no means necessary.
rblnr is offline  
post #19 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 01:57 AM
Member
 
Highend.nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post

I don't bi-amp my VMPS RM40s and I don't think I'm missing anything. It is by no means necessary.

the only time biamping is necessary is when you have active crossovers....everything else is just a waste of money

www.highend.nu

You can download Basta! loudspeaker simulator HERE!

Newest update (new category):
Crestmeasurements
Highend.nu is offline  
post #20 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 02:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpatrick33 View Post

I will try to be concise.
Here's my setup:
Shunyata power conditioner
Musical Fidelity tube buffer (soon to become X-DAC v8 w/built in tube buffer)
Macintosh computer as source
Manley Mahi tube mono blocks

As you can see, there is no preamp. That's sort of the reason I picked the Mahi's, high sensitivity. Another reason was it's ability to play rock or bass heavy content.

I had Magnepan MMGs with a tiny Pinnacle sub for low end. They were great, but it's time for a change.

I specifically want to eliminate the stand alone subwoofer from the equation. I want 2 full range speakers. But they have to be versatile. Here's why: the content is all over the map. From Rock music to video games... movies.... accoustic performances... television. You name it. I am going to ask these speakers to handle it... and handle it well. Except for rap and country!

Somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000 would be nice.

I want a speaker that doesn't have the localized sweet spot like the Magnepan's have.



How bout these Polks?

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/lsi25/
The_Dark_Knight is offline  
post #21 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 09:08 AM
Member
 
Highend.nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
monitor audio rs 6 maybe? I haven't heard them but they seem ok

www.highend.nu

You can download Basta! loudspeaker simulator HERE!

Newest update (new category):
Crestmeasurements
Highend.nu is offline  
post #22 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 09:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ssteel01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston Area, MA
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hmmm...don't have much personal experience with that sort of bass extension at that price, but have heard some older speakers like PSB Stratus Gold's and Revel F30's that might fit the bill. The PSB's (IMO) didn't do any one thing exceptionally well (other than bass extension), but they do a lot of things very capably.


Scott
ssteel01 is offline  
post #23 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 10:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
rblnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


the only time biamping is necessary is when you have active crossovers....everything else is just a waste of money

Some people try to voice their VMPSs (and other speakers) by, say, using tube amps to drive the ribbons and solid state amps for the woofers. As noted, I don't find this necessary at all and if you're using different types of amps it opens a can of worms I'd just as soon avoid -- level matching, etc.
rblnr is offline  
post #24 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 10:18 AM
Member
 
Highend.nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteel01 View Post

The PSB's (IMO) didn't do any one thing exceptionally well (other than bass extension), but they do a lot of things very capably.


Scott


this is one thing that usually tells that it is a really good speaker believe it or not a neutral speaker will in time satisfy much more than a speaker that has "power bass" or "really nice tweeter" or whatever


ps: i haven't heard the PSB's

www.highend.nu

You can download Basta! loudspeaker simulator HERE!

Newest update (new category):
Crestmeasurements
Highend.nu is offline  
post #25 of 57 Old 08-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
SleeperSupra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thiel CS3.6

Enough said...
SleeperSupra is offline  
post #26 of 57 Old 08-18-2007, 12:52 AM
Senior Member
 
JCarls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post

Some people try to voice their VMPSs (and other speakers) by, say, using tube amps to drive the ribbons and solid state amps for the woofers. As noted, I don't find this necessary at all and if you're using different types of amps it opens a can of worms I'd just as soon avoid -- level matching, etc.

Oh geeze, I agree. Look at the tests for amps and you will find +/- 0.1 db problems compared to +/- 3 db in speakers and +/- 20db in room acoustics. That's like 3% or less (in most cases much less) improvement using "better" amps or bi-amping. Spend your money on speakers.

irishpatrick33, you are choosing very esoteric brands. Sorry that I can't help you with many. About 100 replies ago I mentioned Paradigm, which you don't want to do again and I respect that. After that I would say that Monitor Audio GS60 (or GR60) at $4K or less will put you in the "within 10-15% of many $8,000 models" class for full range, high quality, high efficiency speakers. I am very reluctant to go with high end speaker manufacturers who only sell 2 speakers for every 20 speakers that better-known manufacturers sell. Granted, there is some marketing you're paying for if you buy B$W or some other well-known brands. But a lot of of the relatively low profile companies don't make enough money to compete in development of drivers, crossovers, and port technology.
JCarls is offline  
post #27 of 57 Old 08-18-2007, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I knew the speakers I listed were not the usual suspects. That's why I asked about them. I like that as well. A bit of a mystery.

I totally disagree with your theory though. Not to say it couldn't be true. But I don't buy into it as a whole. Big companies turn out more speakers and get more profit with which they reinvest in advancement... I find that to be a nice theory and simply that. For so many reasons I cannot begin to explain. SERIOUSLY, I can think of 50 problems with that theory right this second.

I'll give a few examples to be fair. More production usually means more personnel. More personnel costs more money. More production usually means more things that can go wrong. More production can easily result in less quality control. High rates of production could lead to complecency, while living off of past reputation. But the king of them all is GREED. Just because it's audio doesn't mean companies don't behave like most of the business world. Who's to say all those profits go into future technology and not a CEO's pocket?

I also have shortened my odd list down to: Usher, Newform and Stan White. Though it seems no one has ever heard of Stan White at Stereophile. I asked. They said they never heard of him. But there is a dark horse. The Duevel Planets. They look completely out of the ordinary. They are reviewed well. They are affordable enough to check them out and sell them if I don't like them. But it will be a while before I do something. So I will have my eyes and ears open until then.

I do appreciate your help. I'm just offering another POV on large production companies vs. smaller companies.
irishpatrick33 is offline  
post #28 of 57 Old 08-18-2007, 03:45 PM
Senior Member
 
JCarls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well of course I am guessing too - not being privy to anybody's R&D budget lately. I do know that some companies like Monitor Audio got started outsourcing their drivers to others (Dynaudio) before they put together enough of a base to fund their own technology internally. I'm not sure I like the concept of buying somebody else's drivers, putting them in a different shape box, and hoping they sound as good or better than the original manufacturer's speakers. That is one cool thing about many of the lesser-knows however... many of them have extraordinarily beautiful cabinets.

Anyway, I do like your experiment with the hard to find brands even if I would have to spend many hours listening and comparing before I invested that kind of money in them.
JCarls is offline  
post #29 of 57 Old 08-18-2007, 08:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,696
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 258
If you have a big room, you could put Klipschorns in the corners.

psgcdn is offline  
post #30 of 57 Old 08-18-2007, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
irishpatrick33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I couldn't even consider thinking about those speakers. Their price is double my budget. Thanks
irishpatrick33 is offline  
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off