DIY Curved Screen with structural extruded aluminum metal framing - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 124 Old 09-07-2010, 10:25 AM
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I didn't want to register. They don't just post pricing.

How long between when you ordered and it arriving?
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post #92 of 124 Old 09-07-2010, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll PM later you what pricing I got, that info is at home.
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post #93 of 124 Old 09-07-2010, 12:27 PM
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Thanks
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post #94 of 124 Old 09-07-2010, 01:18 PM
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The registration is pretty simple. And once you register and log on with your ID, the pricing is all shown. It's standard, non negotiable pricing. Straightforward. The std 20x20 is about 4.50 per meter IIRC.
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post #95 of 124 Old 09-07-2010, 01:38 PM
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That's about $1.50/foot. I don't think that's bad. Does it come in standard sizes or do you tell them the lengths?
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post #96 of 124 Old 09-08-2010, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Took some digging thru my folders, but I found them.
I took these screen shots when I was making the screen, so the prices are 1.5 years old.
(I thought they were posted here already, oh well....)
20 x 20 profile:


30 x 30 profile:



Like I said in this thread, if I had to do it over I'd go with the 30x30.
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post #97 of 124 Old 09-09-2010, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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fwiw I did post the above pricing on 6/2/08 (over 2 years ago) in this build thread, page 1 post #21 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14000529 , titled "Adding budget info", seemed appropriate thread post to document facts.

Guess tmi in this build thread?
I tried to document it very clearly so others could....do their DIY thing.
Good luck others; document your steps/actions, take pictures, and post your build experiences.
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post #98 of 124 Old 09-09-2010, 06:36 AM
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mtbdudex - thanks for letting us all know about this option. i read your threads around two years ago and ordered some 30x30 tubing cut to size from them then and it was a great solution. My screen is super light, perfectly flat and perfectly square with no bowing or warping. Before I read your threads, I was using 2x4's which was heavy and had many problems. The extruded aluminum tubing is great and incredibly easy to use. Especially nice is that it is cut to great precision and bolts together in minutes.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #99 of 124 Old 09-09-2010, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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and I got the idea from walking around work and seeing these sq tubing being used for test fixtures, it's original and main intent. 10' plus lengths in the supply room that barely flexed got my mind thinking.....We've used incredible huge profiles for super ridgid fmvss test fixtures, this stuff can be ordered in whatever your business need is.

Hopefully others can build on what I/others have did and improve and share.
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post #100 of 124 Old 09-29-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

[update]
I spoke with 2 shops here in SE Michigan past week.
Local shop would charge about $175-ish USD to curve both of the 30x30 profile pcs.
I'd have to get about 4' total longer for their holding process.

If later summer/fall I do decide to make screen Ver2.0 I'll go this route.
The extra cost would greatly simplify the curve making, and being 100% non-wood would guarantee environmental stability.

I'm just about to start building a curved CIH screen for my DIY HT build. I really want to use curved aluminum extrusions and found this thread.

So far I haven't had much luck. I tried contacting a local distributor for the MayTec system. Apparently there is no way for them to produce curved profile in the US. My distributor tried to contact Germany to get an estimate and never got a response(!). I've also managed to find companies that can bend extrusions but they require a 100Kg or 1000 part minimum. I did try a local metalwork shop and their response of "sure, we can use our pipe bender" didn't inspire confidence since there is more to aluminum bending than that.

I also contacted Bosch and 80/20 and neither can help (or even recommend such a service).

mtbdudex, did the guys you found understand how to bend the extrusion without wrinkling or cracking? A cost of $200 for the two pieces is reasonable to me but I need to ensure the t-slots and profile is kept intact.

Any pointers would be appreciated (I'm in California BTW).

Cheers.

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post #101 of 124 Old 10-03-2010, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Moggie;
I've NOT done anything with this, if/when I do I'd go to their shop and see their bend process prior to ordering my tubing for confidence.
Of course I'd take pictures to share with others while the shop does it's thing, to show results, good or bad.

One of my concerns was/is making sure the tube stays "square" total lengthwise as you look down it after bending, not sure if there was residue stress in the tube and if it would twist just slightly or what while going thru the bending.
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post #102 of 124 Old 10-03-2010, 10:06 AM
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Thanks Mike. I'll do the same with any progress I make. The accuracy of the bend is my concern too, the extrusion would likely need to be heat treated prior to bending to ensure a quality process.

If no idea of their schedule (or pricing) but MayTec are apparently intending to offer the bending service in the US as some point. I guess there just isn't much demand for this.

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post #103 of 124 Old 10-05-2010, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Thanks Mike. I'll do the same with any progress I make. The accuracy of the bend is my concern too, the extrusion would likely need to be heat treated prior to bending to ensure a quality process.

If no idea of their schedule (or pricing) but MayTec are apparently intending to offer the bending service in the US as some point. I guess there just isn't much demand for this.

If you are having trouble finding local shop to curve the alum extrusion, the other thing you can do, is make hybrid curved frame same as I did, flat extrusions and simple wood cut to length for support a curved thin wood baseboard mldg.
However, use Larrychief method of floating the DW laminate instead of fixing it to the frame, then what little the hybrid frame moves seasonally won't warp the laminate
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17532402
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post #104 of 124 Old 10-05-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

If you are having trouble finding local shop to curve the alum extrusion, the other thing you can do, is make hybrid curved frame same as I did, flat extrusions and simple wood cut to length for support a curved thin wood baseboard mldg.
However, use Larrychief method of floating the DW laminate instead of fixing it to the frame, then what little the hybrid frame moves seasonally won't warp the laminate
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17532402

Thanks. Yes I've read your build in detail and that approach is definitely a possibility. I'm planning a AT (cloth) screen though with automated masking. The screen is definitely going to be one of the more challenging parts of my build.

Cheers.

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post #105 of 124 Old 01-26-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Saw this at Home Depot, as lesson learned this curved screen method I used could work using this instead of the pine board for the curve backing.
Would need to test contact cement to laminate adhesion on a piece, but assuming that worked this would easily solve the small expansion/contraction by humidity.
For future other builders to consider.


I saw in the laminate thread a member painted the back of his laminate and stated that cured his humidity expansion/warping issue.
Still tbd on doing that for mine....I've got nothing to lose by trying it though....

[edit]
I will be applying water based dead flat varnish, should 100% seal it from moisture.

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Varnishes
These premium quality, water base, non-yellowing varnishes have been formulated to have the optimum level of clarity with the least amount of sheen (Dead Flat) or low sheen (Satin). Use as a protective finish coat over decorative paint finishes to add durability and washability, and to remove undesirable variations in sheen level.

If I don't do it this weekend, then after Superbowl weekend I'll apply 2 coats to the backside.
Timely to do this, because I'm finally doing the HT acoustics, and its been on my docket for 2 years now to stuff the backside with Roxul Rockboard 60, Mineral Wool Board, 2 inch thick, possible 4-6" on the ends (very similar acoustic properties as OC 705 w/o itchies)
(this is 2+ year old pict)
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post #106 of 124 Old 01-30-2011, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: Between Saturday and Sunday I just got done putting (4) coats of varnish on the back of the screen AND the pine boards I used for the curve, all 3 exposed sides of the pine boards coated.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic that this will keep the humidity induced warpage away. If you seal out the moisture, the boards/and or the laminate should not warp.
frank1940 - thx.
Until Late June/Early July won't know, I'll report back then.




Come Wed I'll be getting (6) pcs of 2' x 4' Roxul Rockboard 60, Mineral Wool Board, 2 inch thick. That is going in back of the screen, attached to the frame, to absorb low freq. Then, the screen is going back on the wall.
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post #107 of 124 Old 02-07-2011, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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This past weekend continuing with improving the HT acoustics, I put (6) sheets of 2" thick 2' x 4' Roxul Rockboard on my screen to make is a "dead zone" instead of a resonance/reflection zone.
http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Ro...f-6--RB60.html
Quote:


This is a case of 6 pieces of 24 x 48 x 2 inch Rockboard 60 manufactured by Roxul. It is rigid mineral wool board similar to Owens Corning 705 at a density of 6 pounds per cubic foot.

I used Roxul Rockboard instead of OC705 because I am NOT going to cover it, so did not want itchy stuff.

This was on my "to do" list for almost 2 years.....finally did it this weekend.

This is on back of my DIY screen, there is a controlled 3/4" gap to the screen via the metal plates I added for supporting, secured the panels by suspended ceiling 14ga wire.
#1


Final product done and secured, the outside portion has (2) 2" thick 2 ' x 4'pieces fitting, the inside 1 due to screen curve allows more on outside.
#2


It's also with about a 3" air gap to the wall now.
#3


#4


screen hung, btw It's also 50 lbs heavier.....my wife complained I'm "slaving her" with all this heavy lifting.:
#5

(that's my acoustic cloud I'm making just today, i was not there when I did the Audyessy re-run)

I immediately could tell improved bass, I've not taken REW plots yet, but I did re-run my Audyessy and it shows how its EQ is applied, look at the before/after for the center channel!
Yes, I was very careful about having my mic in repeatable positions as well for before/after check..
Before:
#6


After:
#7
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post #108 of 124 Old 02-15-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Just adding my experience here.

Go with the 30 x 30 profile, not the 20 x 20 like I did.
Sure, it costs a few $ more, however when I put the extra weight onto the whole frame for the acoustic treatment I did notice the frame itself visibilly flexed when lied down - the screen flattened close to "straight", hanging there is no flex in the horizontal plane, its level the whole 10 feet width.
(look at pict#2 above, you can visually see it)
Nothing got damaged, but carrying additional 50lbs was not part of my design parameter when I started this.
I do recommend EVERYONE who builds a curved screen to do acoustic treatment behind it, either on wall or on screen.
You'd be suprised how much bass improvement you'll have.
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post #109 of 124 Old 05-12-2011, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok - score one for H20 molecules getting into wood when I had thought the back was so coated per what I did Jan/Feb this year..

I notice earlier this week "humidity induced warpage" has returned.

I've done all I could do, so my next thing for permanant solution will be to router out the lamiante and get some AT screen material and put that on.
It won't bow/buckle when the very slight warpage happens.

I'm a perfectionist, you don't notice it at all while viewing...but the AT material will fix that, plus as a bonus I'll have better acoustics in the HT also via less sound reflections.

For now I have no plans to get speakers for mounting behind the screen, I don't have enough room for that.

Bummer thing is this weekend I'm hosting a HEMI meet, and now this crops up just days before......
Spring HEMI Meet - Saturday May 14th
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post #110 of 124 Old 05-12-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Ok - score one for H20 molecules getting into wood when I had thought the back was so coated per what I did Jan/Feb this year..

I notice earlier this week "humidity induced warpage" has returned.

I've done all I could do, so my next thing for permanant solution will be to router out the lamiante and get some AT screen material and put that on.
It won't bow/buckle when the very slight warpage happens.

I'm a perfectionist, you don't notice it at all while viewing...but the AT material will fix that, plus as a bonus I'll have better acoustics in the HT also via less reflections.

For now I have no plans to get speakers for mounting behind the screen, I don't have enough room for that.

Bummer thing is this weekend I'm hosting a HEMI meet, and now this crops up just days before......
Spring HEMI Meet - Saturday May 14th

This is horrible news Mike. I think we should consider canceling the meet so that we don't traumatize the other memebers.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. My guess is that it will look fine to all of us and we wouldn't even know about it if you didn't tell us.
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post #111 of 124 Old 05-12-2011, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

This is horrible news Mike. I think we should consider canceling the meet so that we don't traumatize the other memebers.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. My guess is that it will look fine to all of us and we wouldn't even know about it if you didn't tell us.

Thx Nick - We all take pride in trying to do our best, making something "correct".
In this case quickly sharing this info with others in the avs community hopefully will help them not repeat same issue.
Larry made laminate curved screen with floating laminate method instead of fixed based on my feedback.
He visited my HT before making his screen, therefore I had his direct contact info, and got him 2 weeks before he made his screen, so he revised the method with good countermeasure.

Imagine this: if you took a slightly over 4 feet tall x 10 feet wide piece of posterboard and pushed it "in" either height wise or width wise you can imagine just slight movement and it will buckle outta plane, that's what happens here....add that to the DFEMA for laminate builds, floatable mounting to absorb slight movement of the base frame.

I know we'll still have a good HT meet Saturday...rain or shine.....slight screen buckle non-withstanding....
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post #112 of 124 Old 05-14-2011, 06:57 PM
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Just to report that my DW laminate curved screen is still in perfect condition, even after having my HT flooded on Jan 24 that required Servpro remediation...lots of blowers and suckers etc, and eventually having all the carpet replaced. I'm guessing I've had significant variations in humidity that have apparently had no effect on warpage of the laminate material.

Larry
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post #113 of 124 Old 05-26-2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Ok - score one for H20 molecules getting into wood when I had thought the back was so coated per what I did Jan/Feb this year..

I notice earlier this week "humidity induced warpage" has returned.

I've done all I could do, so my next thing for permanant solution will be to router out the lamiante and get some AT screen material and put that on.
It won't bow/buckle when the very slight warpage happens.

I'm a perfectionist, you don't notice it at all while viewing...but the AT material will fix that, plus as a bonus I'll have better acoustics in the HT also via less sound reflections.

For now I have no plans to get speakers for mounting behind the screen, I don't have enough room for that.

Bummer thing is this weekend I'm hosting a HEMI meet, and now this crops up just days before......
Spring HEMI Meet - Saturday May 14th

Mike,

Just read this thread. Great work. I can assure you that the screen imperfections were not noticeable at the meet.

Instead of varnish to seal the wood, a better idea is epoxy. It is used to make boats and canoes. It also makes varnish last longer outside. On my oak front door, I used varnish over epoxy. Take a look at this West Systems article:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/

A key quote from the article: "sealing wood with an epoxy moisture barrier dramatically lessens its stretching and shrinking."

I don't know if you could brush on epoxy right over the varnish that you have on there now, but my guess is that it would work. West Systems recommends 3 coats of epoxy for moisture sealing.

Greg
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post #114 of 124 Old 05-31-2011, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gworrel View Post

Mike,

Just read this thread. Great work. I can assure you that the screen imperfections were not noticeable at the meet.

Instead of varnish to seal the wood, a better idea is epoxy. It is used to make boats and canoes. It also makes varnish last longer outside. On my oak front door, I used varnish over epoxy. Take a look at this West Systems article:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/

A key quote from the article: "sealing wood with an epoxy moisture barrier dramatically lessens its stretching and shrinking."

I don't know if you could brush on epoxy right over the varnish that you have on there now, but my guess is that it would work. West Systems recommends 3 coats of epoxy for moisture sealing.

Greg

Hey Greg, wish I had that info back in January, anyway I've concieded the warpage issue as Lesson Learned.

I'm going to the DIY screen section and pick experts brains there on cloth based + painted special mix solution.
(posted here Fixing my 130" DIY curved screen: going from DW Laminate to some painted/cloth screen
I'll salvage this metal/wood curved frame via router the lamiante away, .
(don't laugh, I grew attached to the screen, yea its a inamiate object but still to this day I'm amazed at the picture)

I was thinking AT cloth (seymour/etc) screen, but with my Sony VW60 PJ not being a light cannon I don't want any additional light loss that an AT screen gives.
This will be my 4-5 year solution, I'm waiting for 3D LED PJ's to come to market at acceptable price points (under $5k).

Then I'll do 30x30 bosch curved alum + AT screen.
(and make a new build thread)
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post #115 of 124 Old 12-23-2012, 08:51 PM
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post #116 of 124 Old 12-16-2013, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Very nice job!

Robert - missed your comment, thx.
btw, great avatar!


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Well, via Palladia I've seen Rush a few more times also....
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post #117 of 124 Old 01-03-2014, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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added here for reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrr View Post

anyone know how to calculate the distance from the chord to the curve at various points along the chord? other than the middle smile.gif

i started to tape some grid paper together to make a 1/10scale drawing...but it will still be a lot of grid paper!

It's kinda buried in my build thread, http://www.avsforum.com/t/1029683/diy-curved-screen-with-structural-extruded-aluminum-metal-framing/30#post_15302528
Download the excel file in that post, the tab "Pincushion & Screen Curvature" I added my trig 101 to the bottom of it:
paper and pencil

input into excel file

Post pictures of your build in your thread!
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post #118 of 124 Old 01-03-2014, 08:59 AM
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post #119 of 124 Old 01-03-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ Thx for posting, web is free, for an app $1.99 get's you same thing basically
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/radius-calculator/id453210969?mt=8
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Radius CalculatorBy MaoWare Corporation
Description
Radius Calculator allows you to calculate the radius, central angle, arc length, and circumference from the span / chord and rise of an arc segment. Built-in unit converter makes it to work with any length unit (including inches, feet, centimeters, meters, and many more).

Simply enter the span / chord and the rise to arc in your choice of units. Then pick the output unit unit and the radius, central angle, arc length, and circumference are instantly computed.

Designed for the multiple trades in the construction industry, this calculator is great for any craftsman who needs to find properties of a circle given curve measurements. In particular, Radius Calculator is perfect carpenters or cabinet makers who deal with curved walls.

The trig formulas are in the excel file I posted, so anyone building a DIY screen can easily see those and modify for their project.
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post #120 of 124 Old 01-04-2014, 08:05 AM
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"If the horizontal distance from the centre of the chord is X, then the height of the curve from the chord at that point is:

h=sqrt(R^2 - X^2) - R + C

The sqrt part calculates the vertical height of the point on the arc from the centre of the circle, and then the -R+C adjusts so that the height is with respect to the chord instead."

i used the above and made a table in excel and checked it by graphing it and it looks good. thanks for your help! I'll start my own thread when i am further along
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