what speakers are you using behind your AT 2.35 screen? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-13-2013, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I;m trying to get a feel for what to expect in relationship to speakers and screen movement. I have never used an AT screen and have no idea how much the sound pressure will affect the screen...particularly at lower octaves.

What are you guys doing if anything, or is it a non-issue?

Thank you very much in advance!!!!smile.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-13-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 316 View Post

I;m trying to get a feel for what to expect in relationship to speakers and screen movement. I have never used an AT screen and have no idea how much the sound pressure will affect the screen...particularly at lower octaves.

What are you guys doing if anything, or is it a non-issue?

Thank you very much in advance!!!!smile.gif

Non issue
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-13-2013, 06:33 PM
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Non issue.

My three active (separate amps for mids and highs and electronic crossover for filtering) LCRs reside behind the screen built into a baffle wall. My Subs live below the screen. There is no "movement" with high SPLs and active speakers are far more dynamic than passive speakers.

if you are wanting the best sound to picture match, you need to be placing the L and R in the right place and not just behind the screen.

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post #4 of 20 Old 10-13-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Non issue.

My three active (separate amps for mids and highs and electronic crossover for filtering) LCRs reside behind the screen built into a baffle wall. My Subs live below the screen. There is no "movement" with high SPLs and active speakers are far more dynamic than passive speakers.

if you are wanting the best sound to picture match, you need to be placing the L and R in the right place and not just behind the screen.

Did you ever toe in your L&R speakers Mark in the baffle wall?
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-20-2013, 01:26 PM
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Someone posted the Dolby Atmos specs here recently, and it mentions toeing in the L&R speakers, but also says that you can just toe in just the horns if those are the types of speaker you have in a baffle wall. It also says where the speakers should go in a 2.35 and 16:9 set up:

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/Dolby-Atmos-Cinema-Technical-Guidelines.pdf

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post #6 of 20 Old 10-24-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Did you ever toe in your L&R speakers Mark in the baffle wall?

Yes I did. I made the baffle from 3 panels so that L and R could toed and C recessed.



It is not much, but I think better than if it were flat.

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post #7 of 20 Old 10-28-2013, 05:54 PM
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Current setup, placed literally inches away from the screen. I think you'll be OK. biggrin.gif

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post #8 of 20 Old 10-28-2013, 10:40 PM
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You have heights. Cool smile.gif

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post #9 of 20 Old 10-29-2013, 11:26 AM
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Yup. They were originally slated to be used as wides, but with a room less than 11' wide; I chose to go for heights instead. Needless to say, they are way overkill for that purpose, but oh well.

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post #10 of 20 Old 10-31-2013, 08:12 PM
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How do you find heights?

I still have the original 3 cables from when my LCRs were passive and I have room above the screen so I can add height speakers once I get a processor with Dolby Z or similar. 3D video will go into my cinema before 3D sound will.

When I first read about breaking the horizontal plain, I was not sure why it would benefit. Of course after hearing it, I am sold. The system I heard it on had all main speakers below the screen. It was a random scene that sold me which had as huge tree and the wind blowing the leaves and the sound effect could be heard higher up like it be in real life.

Wides are useful too but unless they can be integrated into a real cinema, I can't see them ever being used. I think DREDD was mixed for both heights and wides but because it 7.1 on BD, works perfectly fine on my system as well. I guess the BD is a sweetened version of the cinema soundtrack.

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post #11 of 20 Old 11-01-2013, 07:02 AM
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Hi Mark,

I was at Gecko Home Cinema here in the UK, and they have one of the best facilities I've seen: http://www.geckohomecinema.com/

They have a few different rooms set up, and one of them had wides installed. They certainly seemed to fill the big hole that exists between the side surrounds and front L & R speakers, so much so that I for one will have them in my next theatre. A helicopter scene in Apocalypse Now had the sound of the blades throbbing from the rear, to the sides, front wides and then the front speakers which sounded so much better than when we listened to the same scene without them - there was more of a jump from sides to front. Definitely worth having IMHO.

I like your example of trees blowing in the wind with heights - makes those seem almost essential too.

Gary

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post #12 of 20 Old 11-01-2013, 10:57 AM
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I think there is a use for both heights and wides. I can see wides being much more beneficial in everyday movie watching, where heights don't call much attention to themselves in a lot of scenes, but when they do, you really appreciate them. Batman is one that comes to mind. When he is trapped in the alley and comes blasting out in the Batwing (or whatever it's called), it definitely adds to the realism where you can hear it taking off lifting up above the audience before flying off overhead.

I have my theater wired for wides, but I just can't seem to integrate them without them looking really tacky. I know sound should take precedence over aesthetics; but sometimes my OCD just won't allow it. biggrin.gif

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post #13 of 20 Old 11-05-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Yup. They were originally slated to be used as wides, but with a room less than 11' wide; I chose to go for heights instead. Needless to say, they are way overkill for that purpose, but oh well.

Bass - love your front wall of SOUND!!

I recessed my wides into the wall to lessen their impact into the room, not sure if that's an option for you or not
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrade-your-ht-room-via-audysseydsx-dolbypl-iiz-dts-neo-x/60#post_22822819
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Some more progress on integrating the wides into the side walls:
My LH wall is outside foundation wall, it is engineered concrete with concrete studs that are 9 1/2" deep and 24" center, so I built a box to insert into the cavity as shown.
Leftover 3/4" thick OSB works nice, it takes drywall screws pretty good.
For the back I had 1/2" birch ply, so used that, since I did not have a 21" x 12" piece of OSB, wood scraps always come in handy.
Glue and screwed, box 100% sealed.
photo%25201.JPG . photo%25202.JPG

I had to contend with HVAC 8" dia pipe, so the box "wrapped" around that for maximum position ability - angle wise - of the speaker
Used pressure treated 2 x 4 for top/bottom support, as they contact the concrete studs, and then able to also screw into the RH side concrete stud, it is faced with 1" thick wood strip for drywall attaching.
Box is very sturdy in there.

Here is RH side, primed shows some spots I'll add more spackle and re-do, hey I'm not the best at mudding rolleyes.gif
photo%25203.JPG

Lesson learned:
Honestly, making the speaker box shelf outside of the wall and then "plugging it in" was much faster on the LH side than building it "in wall" as I did on the RH side, a small lesson learned.

end result
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Here's my build status update:
Tucking the heights all the way up into the corner gives me 35 degree spread and around 32 degrees up.

The wides ended up at 50 degree spread, due to my desirte to keep symmetry of them.
The LH 8" HVAC pipe kept me from going more rearward on the LH side within the 24" span between concrete form studs, now if I went totally rear of that 8" pipe and the concrete stud then on the RH side I get into all my 4 circuits wiring for lights frown.gif
In the 2-3 year upgrade plan, if I do upgrade to a Grafiyik eye for light control then I'd need to re-do the box/wiring there, then I'd move these rearward and be around 62-63 degrees spread.

For now, I'm just within the +- 10 degree tolerance Chris K gave.
Layout:
HT%2520Plan%25202x4%2520Seats-Riser-acoustics%2520Jan-2013_angles.JPG

Some pictures of final install:
_MG_1157.jpg . _MG_1158.jpg

This picture shows the dead flat varnish I coated the re-paint area....looks like I need to put a little more forward, they eyes can't see this or I would have of course done it.
I added that way back in 2008 to help the flat paint burnish issue.
_MG_1163.jpg . _MG_1160.jpg

I lined the sides/back/top of the box with 2" OC703 for resonance control, and to help my bookshelf breath, since it is rear ported.
_MG_1168.jpg
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-07-2013, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Bass - love your front wall of SOUND!!

Thank you.
Quote:
I recessed my wides into the wall to lessen their impact into the room, not sure if that's an option for you or not
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrade-your-ht-room-via-audysseydsx-dolbypl-iiz-dts-neo-x/60#post_22822819
end result

I certainly like that idea. I looked into doing a recessed baffle like that initially, but decided to pass on it for the time being. It could be an option when I get bored with the current arrangement. biggrin.gif

I have a couple spare BMS CD's laying around for just such an event. smile.gif

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post #15 of 20 Old 01-09-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

Someone posted the Dolby Atmos specs here recently, and it mentions toeing in the L&R speakers, but also says that you can just toe in just the horns if those are the types of speaker you have in a baffle wall. It also says where the speakers should go in a 2.35 and 16:9 set up:

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/Dolby-Atmos-Cinema-Technical-Guidelines.pdf

Gary

link appears dead...
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post #16 of 20 Old 01-09-2014, 06:46 PM
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Try this one - it'll be the pdf download:

http://www.tinhte.vn/attachments/atmos-technical-guidelines-pdf.576078/

Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc
Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #17 of 20 Old 01-12-2014, 03:32 PM
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thanks! i found the guide for the screen speakers usefull and i imagine it corresponds to the home theater with AT screens nicely.
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post #18 of 20 Old 01-13-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

Hi Mark,

I was at Gecko Home Cinema here in the UK, and they have one of the best facilities I've seen: http://www.geckohomecinema.com/

They have a few different rooms set up, and one of them had wides installed. They certainly seemed to fill the big hole that exists between the side surrounds and front L & R speakers, so much so that I for one will have them in my next theatre. A helicopter scene in Apocalypse Now had the sound of the blades throbbing from the rear, to the sides, front wides and then the front speakers which sounded so much better than when we listened to the same scene without them - there was more of a jump from sides to front. Definitely worth having IMHO.

I like your example of trees blowing in the wind with heights - makes those seem almost essential too.

Gary

I did look into WIDE speakers but just don't have the room for them given the screen is already the width of the room. I had sort of thought i could make it work by placing them on the side walls between the screen edges and the surrounds, but it would look pretty tacky and the right WIDE would be basically hanging off the door.

I agree with the need to fill in the hole that sometimes is hears(more like the sound snaps) between front speakers and surrounds.

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-07-2014, 01:17 PM
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Hmm, if the effects are as pronounced as that, I may have to look into getting new speakers. The problem is, the wides and heights are supposed to be timbre matched to the mains. My mains are way too big...

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post #20 of 20 Old 03-09-2014, 09:57 PM
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Yeah and part of the reason I seem to find not to add new speaker to mine. Whilst the speakers are relatively compact, they were not cheap and I could see myself doing this with different speakers. They would have to be the same as my current LCRs for me to be really satisfied.

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