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post #1 of 59 Old 08-27-2006, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I know some local lens makers (makes 35mm film anamorphic) and would like to know the details about making anamorphic lens for video projectors. I need the sizes. I read some where that it involves to prisms sliding along the diagonal creates the stretch.

If anybody knows details to make lens, I get try work with my folks and may be we all can get lens cheaper.
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post #2 of 59 Old 08-28-2006, 12:40 AM
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ANAMORPHIC LENS

Anamorphic FILM lenses are 2x stretch, where VIDEO anamorphic lenses and adaptors are 1.33x stretch or compression.

If your contacts can make elements for such a lens, then it needs to magnify the horizontal plain by 33% with 0% magnification in the vertical plane.

A major problem with the commercial products is their size. Most adaptors are compact as they are designed for long throw projectors. If a lens is made for short throw device, then it needs to be physically large. As the light exits the primary lens (projector lens) it expands to reach the size of the screen. The shorter the throw, wider the beam, and the larger the adaptor needs to be...

DIY ANAMORPHIC LENS

There are basically two types of lens - cylindrical and prismatic, where prismatic are easier to make as a DIY project. I have had great success from a set of water filled prisms for over a year now, but recently started to experiment with making solid resin prisms.

Over the last year, I have found a number of optic glass products, and more recently, found large optic glass wedges which would be perfect for a DIY lens...

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post #3 of 59 Old 08-28-2006, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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CAVX -
Thanks for your info.
Where can I get indetail info about the dimensions of prisms complete details.?

I need the details of cylidrical lens info like f value and other details required to make lens.


depending on the info I get I will ask my buddy to start working with him to build the either prisms or lens.

Please provide me the as much details as you can.
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post #4 of 59 Old 08-28-2006, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I am reading your thread there.
Don't worry about this.
I got the angles and dimensions for the prisms 24 and 30. I will ask my friend to make solid crystal clear all glass prisms.
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post #5 of 59 Old 08-28-2006, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmohanr
I am reading your thread there.
Don't worry about this.
I got the angles and dimensions for the prisms 24 and 30. I will ask my friend to make solid crystal clear all glass prisms.
That was for oil and water. You can use 20 or even just 10deg for solid glass...

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post #6 of 59 Old 08-29-2006, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it

A. 20 and 20 on both
B. 20 and 10
or 10 and 10 on both
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post #7 of 59 Old 08-29-2006, 07:42 AM
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I have used 10deg on both. And tonight playing with the "pieces" of a failed cast, found that two 10's together really bend the light. So a 4 prism (10deg each) would work really well...

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post #8 of 59 Old 08-29-2006, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.prismasonic.com/english/diy_lenses.shtml

Are these prisms are all glass or some kinda plastic??

Anybody know the angles on the prisms?
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post #9 of 59 Old 08-29-2006, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmohanr
Are these prisms are all glass or some kinda plastic??

Anybody know the angles on the prisms?
They are Optic Glass (most likely BK7) and are anti-reflective coated. The exact angles will differ from different materials - different refractive index etc - they look about 10 degrees.

Also note from your link that the pass mode that the inside faces parallel, where when I turn my prisms for a pass mode, the outer faces are parallel. Both work, but their method makes the lens more compact - pretty cool...

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post #10 of 59 Old 08-30-2006, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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CAVX -
Do you know the dimensions of them?
Is anybody have these and willing to give me dimensions? height, width/base, length etc

I am trying to get it done with Corning Glass (I don't if it is BK7). My friend has optical unit who used to make cinema scope lens for small villages in India. If I can get good workable dimensions then I can ask him to send me some prototypes.
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post #11 of 59 Old 08-30-2006, 01:42 PM
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What is the function of the antireflective coating? Does it merely absorb excess light that would normally reflect from the surface--or light coming in on a particular angle? Does it really affect the function of a prism? The only benefit for anamorphic lenses is if it actually increased the amount of light that goes through the lens. Does this occur? I wouldn't think so, but if someone has an explanation for how it works, let me know--thanks!

I have seen antireflective films on the market (like this one --> http://www.shopzilla.com/8N_-_cat_id...oid--465956142

Would it function to reduce reflection and increase the efficiency of the prism?

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post #12 of 59 Old 08-30-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmohanr
CAVX -
Do you know the dimensions of them?
Is anybody have these and willing to give me dimensions? height, width/base, length etc

I am trying to get it done with Corning Glass (I don't if it is BK7). My friend has optical unit who used to make cinema scope lens for small villages in India. If I can get good workable dimensions then I can ask him to send me some prototypes.
Sizes of Prismasonic's prisms? Small. The rear prism is just 85mm high x 65mm wide. Front prism is about 125mm wide 85mm high. Too small for me and anyone with a recessed front lens (with the exception of optima and maybe a few others).

Take another look at diyaudio and see the optic prisms we are discussing there...

The set I've ordered are 170mm x 140mm...Not coated though...but I will take them to an optical store and see if they can coat them for me...If not, I have found a company that makes optic grade flat glass that IS optically coated, and for $25, I'll add another "element" to the new lens I am making...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer
What is the function of the antireflective coating? Does it merely absorb excess light that would normally reflect from the surface--or light coming in on a particular angle? Does it really affect the function of a prism? The only benefit for anamorphic lenses is if it actually increased the amount of light that goes through the lens. Does this occur? I wouldn't think so, but if someone has an explanation for how it works, let me know--thanks!

I have seen antireflective films on the market (like this one --> http://www.shopzilla.com/8N_-_cat_i..._oid--465956142

Would it function to reduce reflection and increase the efficiency of the prism?
Basically, those that did the DIY lens from diyaudio (myself included) experienced light reflections on the screen at some point. It can be caused by light out the ends of the prisms (the thick end of the front prism for HE) which needs to be blackened out. The other issue is sometimes a bright scene will cuase a reflection from the screen onto the surface of the front prism and reflect back onto the screen. Anti-reflection coatings prevent this.

I still do not have anti coating on my water prisms, but I know now that most reflections can be prevented from proper prism alignment...

I doubt the product you've provided a link for will work on a lens. It is like a contact adhesive, designed to be clear when applied directly on the surface and then viewed in the line of sight, not when light passes through and over distance like in front projection...

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post #13 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 07:33 AM
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I have seen professional anamorphic lenses that go from 4:3 to 16:9 and 16:9 to 21:9, but I haven't seen one that goes from 4:3 to 21:9. Could it be done? A few years ago when I was experimenting with liquid filled prisms, I found that the changing the angles of the prisms affected the image in all sorts of ways. THe image could be expanded or squeezed to many different positions. I actually found I could introduce a real serious squeeze to the image, and it didn't appear to affect the qualities of the image (like chromatic aberration. Barrel distortion seemed to increase a little bit, but nothing overly annoying--especially with a framed image, it was hard to tell there was any barrel distortion.

Anyway, the reason I ask is that I have a 4:3 projector, and would love to go constant height with it, and I am in the midst of making my own horizontal expansion lens. I supposed experimentation will be the way to go, but it would be pretty cool if I could get a scaler that would eliminate the black bars on my 4:3 image of a 2.35:1 movie, and expand it out to its 2.35:1 glory.

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post #14 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX

The set I've ordered are 170mm x 140mm...Not coated though...but I will take them to an optical store and see if they can coat them for me...If not, I have found a company that makes optic grade flat glass that IS optically coated, and for $25, I'll add another "element" to the new lens I am making...



Basically, those that did the DIY lens from diyaudio (myself included) experienced light reflections on the screen at some point. It can be caused by light out the ends of the prisms (the thick end of the front prism for HE) which needs to be blackened out. The other issue is sometimes a bright scene will cuase a reflection from the screen onto the surface of the front prism and reflect back onto the screen. Anti-reflection coatings prevent this.

I still do not have anti coating on my water prisms, but I know now that most reflections can be prevented from proper prism alignment...

I doubt the product you've provided a link for will work on a lens. It is like a contact adhesive, designed to be clear when applied directly on the surface and then viewed in the line of sight, not when light passes through and over distance like in front projection...

Mark
What do you recommend for antireflective coating (magnesium difluoride?), and if I wanted my prisms coated, who should I talk to about it?

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post #15 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer
I have seen professional anamorphic lenses that go from 4:3 to 16:9 and 16:9 to 21:9, but I haven't seen one that goes from 4:3 to 21:9. Could it be done? A few years ago when I was experimenting with liquid filled prisms, I found that the changing the angles of the prisms affected the image in all sorts of ways. THe image could be expanded or squeezed to many different positions. I actually found I could introduce a real serious squeeze to the image, and it didn't appear to affect the qualities of the image (like chromatic aberration. Barrel distortion seemed to increase a little bit, but nothing overly annoying--especially with a framed image, it was hard to tell there was any barrel distortion.

Anyway, the reason I ask is that I have a 4:3 projector, and would love to go constant height with it, and I am in the midst of making my own horizontal expansion lens. I supposed experimentation will be the way to go, but it would be pretty cool if I could get a scaler that would eliminate the black bars on my 4:3 image of a 2.35:1 movie, and expand it out to its 2.35:1 glory.
Steve, with scaler and 4 x 3 projector, your actually better off with a true cinema scope 2x lens that can be found on EBAY for around >$50...You will loose a slight amount of horizontal rez (bringing 2.66:1 back to 2.35:1) but you will have the full vertical rez of the projector...

The prism lens that I am working on is based on 33%, so will be useful for transforming 12:9 to 16:9. Whilst the prisms can stretch the image more than 33%, I think you might find run into trouble going too much past the 33% point...

Quote:
What do you recommend for antireflective coating (magnesium difluoride?), and if I wanted my prisms coated, who should I talk to about it?
I'm not 100% about that yet, but I will search for info on that one...

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post #16 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX
Steve, with scaler and 4 x 3 projector, your actually better off with a true cinema scope 2x lens that can be found on EBAY for around >$50...You will loose a slight amount of horizontal rez (bringing 2.66:1 back to 2.35:1) but you will have the full vertical rez of the projector...

The prism lens that I am working on is based on 33%, so will be useful for transforming 12:9 to 16:9. Whilst the prisms can stretch the image more than 33%, I think you might find run into trouble going too much past the 33% point...



I'm not 100% about that yet, but I will search for info on that one...

Mark
Interesting. If I were to go from 12:9 to 21:9, what kind of cheap scaler could I use? Not sure how to search for one that does this kind of stretch (and eliminate the black bars...)

Edit: Would this product: http://www.avxi.com/Products/Crystal...mageSpecs.html

Stretch 4:3 to 21:9? It says it has different aspect ratio outputs, including: 4:3, 4:3 stretched, widescreen, and anamorphic. (Not sure what the difference is between 4:3 stretched, widescreen and anamorphic...)

Thanks.

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post #17 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 03:05 PM
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Part of the scaling would be done by the projector, the rest would need assistance from the scaler.

16:9 - Just having a source set to 16:9 on 12:9 display will remove the bars off 1.78:1. This will also scale the first 25% (or so) needed to use the full vertical rez for 16:9. A 33% stretch lens will then HE the image to give you an optical 1.78:1 image.

21:9 - The next part is a little more complex. Same DVD setting, same projector setting, but now the scaler must be used to both vertically stretch the image to rid the black bars and perform a slight horizontal squeeze to help correct the geometry.
a 2x stretch lens would then need to be employed to HE the new image out to 2.35:1.

If you wanted to do this from one lens, you would have to build it with adjustable prisms like Prismasonic, then add more prism to increase the angles (upto 6 would be needed I would think) so get the correct amount of stretch verses the angles of the prisms...

You have a bit work work ahead. When your new prisms arrive, experiment with them in both a standard 2 prism lens, but also compounding them to see what mean about adding more to increase the angles...

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post #18 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX
Part of the scaling would be done by the projector, the rest would need assistance from the scaler.

16:9 - Just having a source set to 16:9 on 12:9 display will remove the bars off 1.78:1. This will also scale the first 25% (or so) needed to use the full vertical rez for 16:9. A 33% stretch lens will then HE the image to give you an optical 1.78:1 image.

21:9 - The next part is a little more complex. Same DVD setting, same projector setting, but now the scaler must be used to both vertically stretch the image to rid the black bars and perform a slight horizontal squeeze to help correct the geometry.
a 2x stretch lens would then need to be employed to HE the new image out to 2.35:1.

If you wanted to do this from one lens, you would have to build it with adjustable prisms like Prismasonic, then add more prism to increase the angles (upto 6 would be needed I would think) so get the correct amount of stretch verses the angles of the prisms...

You have a bit work work ahead. When your new prisms arrive, experiment with them in both a standard 2 prism lens, but also compounding them to see what mean about adding more to increase the angles...

Mark
Any ideas on cheap scalers to do the stretch?

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post #19 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Any ideas on cheap scalers to do the stretch?
Steve,

I've been researching scalers and have found that technology changes rapidly. Seems similar to computer technology. You could get a later model DVDO like the iScan or HD+ for a reasonable amount as most afficionados are now looking at either the VP30 or VP50. Check E-Bay, or PM Joshz from DVDO.

Very interested to hear your findings when your solid prisms arrive. Knew those trophies were good for something more than collecting dust :)

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post #20 of 59 Old 08-31-2006, 11:24 PM
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Not real sure about the scalers, besides, one popular product is said to be $1500 in the US, is actually about retails for about $3500 here...

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post #21 of 59 Old 09-01-2006, 08:08 AM
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Thanks--OK, here is another scaler question. (Perhaps this isn't the best place to post this--I will post in the Video Processor folder as well).

Is it possible to utilize a laptop as an HTPC? I just acquired a new one at work, and they sold my old one to me for $1. What would be the minimum requirements to make it work--and are there PCMCIA cards that would work?

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post #22 of 59 Old 09-01-2006, 05:33 PM
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What's the output?

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post #23 of 59 Old 09-01-2006, 10:31 PM
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Hold everything! Just went into the service menu of my projector and there is a "scaler" feature, where you can set pretty much any scaling you want. There is a "Letterbox to 16:9" feature that does the remainder of the vertical stretch to 2.35:1. Just set it up with my Indiana Jones DVD, and with my anamorphic lens, got it to stretch to eliminate the black bars. Now this makes me curious (and I'm fairly new to the CH realm--since I have just a lowly SVGA projector, I know the panel is displaying the full 600 lines of resolution, but is that true resolution, or is it more like zoom?

Now, I just need my crystal wedges to come to start playing with those... Thought they would come today, but they didn't. And seeing as this is a holiday weekend in the States, I probably won't see them until next week, Tuesday at the earliest--unless they deliver on Saturday.

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post #24 of 59 Old 09-01-2006, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX
My crystal prisms won't arrive until at least Wednesday, but I have already worked out the case and mount :)
And here is one of the first screen shots :D

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/DSCF5093.jpg

They arrived this morning...

These prisms are awesome, but it looks like I've edited a previous post:(

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post #25 of 59 Old 09-02-2006, 04:19 AM
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Now, I just need my crystal wedges to come to start playing with those...
Steve or Mark,

I've been following the other thread Mark referenced and a few people had luck with liquid filled prisms for lenses. I like the crystal wedge idea, but had a question. Is it the thickness/angle of the prism which bends the light, or was it the liquid contained within?

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post #26 of 59 Old 09-02-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
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Steve or Mark,

I've been following the other thread Mark referenced and a few people had luck with liquid filled prisms for lenses. I like the crystal wedge idea, but had a question. Is it the thickness/angle of the prism which bends the light, or was it the liquid contained within?
It is a combination of both. The liquid in the glass (oil in glass or water in perspex like mine) acts, so far as light is concerned, as a solid. Solid glass (crystal) that we are about to get in to works best which is why the best prismatics use a optical grade glass like BK7...

Quote:
Originally Posted by liuwzen
Hi Mark
cylindrical and prismatic . which is better ?


I didn't experience personally prismatic lens.
Well cylindricals are which is why the very best lenses like the ISCO II and III are just that. The problem is normally cost, which you seemed to solve...

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post #27 of 59 Old 09-03-2006, 06:35 AM
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I recently installed Panamorph's U 85 anamorphic lens inline with my Optoma H79 PJ and it greatly improved the brightness, punch and depth of field in my image. I could not belive the difference when I had it setup correctly. I had a local sheet metal fabricator make a mount to drop the lens to the correct height on a sliding mount so it's easy to place it in or out of line. I spent $495 on it as a special just before they increased the price to $995. I have my eyes on the new Optoma H81 PJ, and cannot imagine how 1080p resolution will look using 100% of its pixels to create a smaller 2:35 image. I cannot be more pleased with the lens. Bob
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post #28 of 59 Old 09-04-2006, 07:19 AM
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Hi Mark,

Great to see that your prisms are working wonder :)

It looks like that you have a color shift toward green. We noticed this on our DIY prism prototype (homecinema.fr forum). Apparently a drawback of using BK7.

Loooking forward to have more feedback on your test.

Alain
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post #29 of 59 Old 09-04-2006, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Singapore
Hi Mark,

Great to see that your prisms are working wonder :)

It looks like that you have a color shift toward green. We noticed this on our DIY prism prototype (homecinema.fr forum). Apparently a drawback of using BK7.

Loooking forward to have more feedback on your test.

Alain
Thanks for the feed back, but I'm blaming my SONY for green push. I've had to go into the gamma tables heaps lately to pull out the green or I get green blobs everywhere...

So can not wait to ditch this LCD for a DLP...

Mark

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I love my Constant Image Height system!
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post #30 of 59 Old 09-04-2006, 09:47 AM
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Awesome! As I posted over at DIYAudio.com (where there are more images), these wedges look fantastic! Still waiting for mine--they may arrive tomorrow, and we can compare notes, when I get it set up. Heading out to the local Home depot to pick up some MDF. Going with the plans shown by the the Prismasonic DIY kit in terms of shape etc. Got to figure out a cheap and easy way to frame the lenses when they arrive, to provide for a dial in setting (for pass through, wide screen and Cinemascope, if it works.

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