4-Way Acoustically Transparent Masking - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 03:22 PM
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Scott,

Couple of points.

Do you think the sensor board would come off easily if you DESOLDER the + and - terminals of the motor? That is if the plactic disc was not needed.

While looking for motors did you come across any dual shaft motors with a 1/8" shaft?
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post #362 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

Scott;

I made a few attempts (stepper motor) myself and failed.
_____
Axel

Axel,

What went wrong using a stepper motor ?
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post #363 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 05:51 PM
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Wow Scott, you are the man !

This has been a great adventure, that continues on. I know I have said this before, but I mean it; thanks for letting us all look over your shoulders as you guys experimented & DIY'd your way to this success. Thanks Scott for your kind words & for letting me offer my two cents on occasion. It's great fun to be of help to other members. Am here to learn & the AVS Forum is a wonderful place to do that. Man, you guys have some serious skills !

This has been my favorite thread on AVS for a long time ! Looking forward to hear & see more in the days to come.

Still loving your DIY theater, it is beautiful !

John
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post #364 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd kind of like to name this motorization project. I thought about STIX for (Scottj0007, Teecue, ifeliciano, and HDGTX), but I don't think that has much of a ring to it. Then I thought about rearranging the names and I came up with (Scottj0007, HDGTX, ifeliciano,Teecue) ... oh my... that doesn't work either.

Any suggestions?
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post #365 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971 View Post

Hi Scott, you really should be proud of what you have done. Have you considered commercialising your masking system and selling it as an aftermarket option? I have a Screen Research 120" TheaterCurve and unfortunately, wasn't aware until after the sale, that ScreenResearch don't sell the masking after market - needs to be purchased as one screen at the initial sale. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person in this position.

It is interesting that you mention curved screens. I've been pondering how I would do a DIY masking system for a curved screen. Someday if I ever replace my screen, I just might try a curved screen with a 4 way MOTORIZED DIY accoustically transparent curved masking system. In the mean time, I'm pretty happy with the screen I have.

I absolutely love masking. I'm sure other's might disagree, but I'd rather have full masking with a flat screen than no masking with a curved screen. But having both would GREAT!

Be careful there... too much talk about curved screens might make me ...... well... eh hem... cough... ouch.... itch, itch, itch....

(I... must... resist... the... urg... to... upgrade...)
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post #366 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Scott,

Couple of points.

Do you think the sensor board would come off easily if you DESOLDER the + and - terminals of the motor? That is if the plactic disc was not needed.

While looking for motors did you come across any dual shaft motors with a 1/8" shaft?

Yes, the sensor board could be removed easily, however, I thought that keeping the plastic disc would be helpful as an isolator between the board and my motor.

I didn't come across any dual shaft motors with a 1/8" shaft. That would be ideal. However, taking my motor to a local machine shop to bore the 1/8" hole in the existing shaft only cost me $10. He would have done it for free, but I wanted to give him something for his time.

The other thing about dual shaft motors is I think both shafts would most likely turn at the geared down speed of about 20 RPM. This is too slow for the hall sensor. The original little rotator motor ran at about 3600 rpm before gearing. This means that the shaft that the hall sensor is attached to needs to be running at about 3600 rpm in order to be effective. The controller is set to have only 1 degree increments. This means that the controller must count every 10 revolutions of the hall sensor as one degree (3600 / 10 = 360 degrees). In my opinion, the DC motor that you choose needs to have a geared down rpm of about 15 - 25 RPM but a raw RMP of around 3000 - 5000 RMP. The hall sensor needs to be attached to the raw (non geared-down) shaft of the motor.
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post #367 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Yes, the sensor board could be removed easily, however, I thought that keeping the plastic disc would be helpful as an isolator between the board and my motor.

I didn't come across any dual shaft motors with a 1/8" shaft. That would be ideal. However, taking my motor to a local machine shop to bore the 1/8" hole in the existing shaft only cost me $10. He would have done it for free, but I wanted to give him something for his time.

The other thing about dual shaft motors is I think both shafts would most likely turn at the geared down speed of about 20 RPM. This is too slow for the hall sensor. The original little rotator motor ran at about 3600 rpm before gearing. This means that the shaft that the hall sensor is attached to needs to be running at about 3600 rpm in order to be effective. The controller is set to have only 1 degree increments. This means that the controller must count every 10 revolutions of the hall sensor as one degree (3600 / 10 = 360 degrees). In my opinion, the DC motor that you choose needs to have a geared down rpm of about 15 - 25 RPM but a raw RMP of around 3000 - 5000 RMP. The hall sensor needs to be attached to the raw (non geared-down) shaft of the motor.

The shaft coming out of the rear of a dual shaft motor will always have the default speed as it is just an extension of the armature.

I have some ideas about the projector lift. Let me know what your needs are. I dont think you will need a hall sensor encoded motor. A regular worm drive motor with limit switches will do.

Regarding the name......the second choice MUST BE AVOIDED.
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post #368 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 08:45 PM
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Hi Guys,

I see everyone is online at this time. What a great project! Lets keep it up and come up with new projects for the HT DIYERS.

Can someone show me how to qoute a part of a messge in a response.I have seen it done many times but I just cannot figure it out.
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post #369 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Hi Guys,

Can someone show me how to quote a part of a messge in a response.I have seen it done many times but I just cannot figure it out.

Click on the "QUOTE" icon on the bottom right corner onf the message you want to quote. A new reply window with the quoted text appears.
Remove what part of the original text you dont want. Make sure your reply is typed after the [/quote] (close quote) .

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post #370 of 835 Old 02-08-2009, 10:36 PM
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Just F.Y.I.

If you do plan on using a coupler to join a gear motor and the Eagle Aspen motor, make sure you measure the Eagle Aspen motor shaft before buying a coupler. My Eagle Aspen motor has a smaller shaft than 1/8" so I need to buy a new coupler or find a sleeve I can put over the shaft to increase the diameter.

I'll measure with calipers tomorrow and post it's diameter.
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post #371 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 02:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

... My Eagle Aspen motor has a smaller shaft than 1/8" so I need to buy a new coupler or find a sleeve I can put over the shaft to increase the diameter.

I'll measure with calipers tomorrow and post it's diameter.

I'm pretty sure mine was 2.5mm.
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post #372 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

...I have some ideas about the projector lift. Let me know what your needs are. I dont think you will need a hall sensor encoded motor. A regular worm drive motor with limit switches will do...

TeeCue,
For a projector lift, I would like IR control of the motor. (A wall switch might be nice too, but not required). The motor only needs to go to two stopping points -- the fully retracted position, and the fully extended position. I agree that the hall sensor encoder is probably overkill and not needed, but I don't know how to design the circuitry to accomplish this with limit switches.

I'm thinking about buying the "wonder motor" that you provided the link for earlier. It has the worm gear drive and looks like it would have plenty of power.

- Scott
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post #373 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 06:39 AM
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Scott,

I had to chime in and say congrats.... I've been following your progress in the background and knew that it was a matter of time before you licked this thing. Great job!!! I'll continue to follow your progress with the horizontal masking, and if you follow thru with the parts and assembly instructions I'll be checking that out too

I do have a diy curved screen with a border so if and when I do the masking it will be a more basic design for CIH, but it would be great to have the cosistency of the same stop points.

Again congrats, the sense of accomplishment must feel great.
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post #374 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 07:26 AM
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[quote=ifeliciano;15774212]Click on the "QUOTE" icon on the bottom right corner onf the message you want to quote. A new reply window with the quoted text appears.

Thanks ifeliciano.
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post #375 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 07:36 AM
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I'm thinking about buying the "wonder motor" that you provided the link for earlier. It has the worm gear drive and looks like it would have plenty of power.

- Scott[/quote]

Scott,

The wonder motor is a good motor but wait till the whole design is complete. I need to know the dimensions of the platform and the clearence above the finished ceiling. Also the max. weight, including the motorized lense slide that will be on the platform.

IR control +/- wall switch would not be a problem.

Teecue
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post #376 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Click on the "QUOTE" icon on the bottom right corner onf the message you want to quote. A new reply window with the quoted text appears.

Thanks ifeliciano.

Make sure you do not accidentally delete any of the "[quote]" commands.

Ivan
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post #377 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

. A new reply window with the quoted text appears.
Remove what part of the original text you dont want.


TEST


Got it now.

Thanks Ivan.
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post #378 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 08:23 PM
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Scott,

Did you still use the dual relay circuit to energize your gear motor or did you change that also ?
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post #379 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Did you still use the dual relay circuit to energize your gear motor or did you change that also ?

I did use the dual relay circuit. The only thing I changed is that I used a parallel connection rather than a serial connection.
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post #380 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

I need to know the dimensions of the platform and the clearence above the finished ceiling. Also the max. weight, including the motorized lense slide that will be on the platform.

The platform will be about 20" X 20". The maximum weight of the projector, motorized lens, and the platform will be 35 pounds.

I plan to use a design were a motor turns a shaft or tube that has a cable wrapped around it, as the shaft turns, the cable will raise and lower the projector. The support for the platform will be provided by a scissor mechanism or sliding mounts, or even fabric. All of the following commercial projectors use these concepts:

. . . . . .




I'm not too worried about the mechanics of the lift. I'll tinker with it until I figure something out. I just don't know how to control the motor travel. I had thought that the hall sensor encoder would work, but there is probably a better way.

- Scott
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post #381 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Scott,

I had to chime in and say congrats.... I've been following your progress in the background and knew that it was a matter of time before you licked this thing. Great job!!! I'll continue to follow your progress with the horizontal masking, and if you follow thru with the parts and assembly instructions I'll be checking that out too

I do have a diy curved screen with a border so if and when I do the masking it will be a more basic design for CIH, but it would be great to have the cosistency of the same stop points.

Again congrats, the sense of accomplishment must feel great.

Thank you for the kind words. I checked out your curved screen thread. VERY NICE! I think it would be pretty easy to do side masking on a curved screen. The primary difference would be that the track that guides the masking would have to be curved to match the screen. That shouldn't be too difficult.

I will post the parts list and step-by-step instructions for the complete motor encoding setup once I finish my horizontal masking. It may be a couple of weeks though. .... Unless I get sidetracked with my projector lift .... or building a curved screen .
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post #382 of 835 Old 02-09-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post


I just don't know how to control the motor travel. I had thought that the hall sensor encoder would work, but there is probably a better way.

- Scott

Without getting too "over-the-top" with the electronics. I think an ir-relay board to drive the motor "up/down" a couple of sensors and a couple of hard stops for the lift mechanism. I think the PDF of the relay circuit (Bob Trinanes') that was posted several pages back could be modified to drive your lift.
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post #383 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 08:55 AM
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Scottj0007, Teecue, ifeliciano, and HDGTX - awesome job on this project! I've been quietly (mostly) watching your progress on the masking motorization and am amazed how it all came together. You guys rock!!

Scott, having the parts list and instructions would be helpful beyond belief. I'm looking forward to those.

Keep up the good work!
Andy
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post #384 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Thank you for the kind words. I checked out your curved screen thread. VERY NICE! I think it would be pretty easy to do side masking on a curved screen. The primary difference would be that the track that guides the masking would have to be curved to match the screen. That shouldn't be too difficult.

I will post the parts list and step-by-step instructions for the complete motor encoding setup once I finish my horizontal masking. It may be a couple of weeks though. .... Unless I get sidetracked with my projector lift .... or building a curved screen .


Back at ya

Ya I've thought of what could be done, and since my screen has a suttle curve of 3" deep over a span of 110" trying to curve track guides to that should'nt be bad at all. When I make my false wall fabric frames I'll have to think about possibly adding something at that time or make it easily feasable in the future. I understand about getting sidetracked, especially with cool projects like that but if you start work on the projector lift were expecting notes and pics on that too
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post #385 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

I'm not too worried about the mechanics of the lift. I'll tinker with it until I figure something out. I just don't know how to control the motor travel. I had thought that the hall sensor encoder would work, but there is probably a better way.

- Scott

Scott,

There are a number of things here:

1) Motor travel control will not be a problem. Like ifeliciano said, we can use a couple of limitter / reversing switches at both end of the travel. You can put the switches by the cable which are then triggered by the movement of the cable. (I will put up a diagram later)

2) The whole thing will be controlled by using a 12 channel IR controlled relay board.http://www.electronickits.com/kit/co...lec/ck1615.htm
I have looked into it and it looks very promising. It has a 38kHz frequency, which the Harmony should be able to learn. This board will be used for other things also.....

3) An IR repeater http://www.smarthome.com/83608/Chann...IR-5000/p.aspxwill be used to control the different Aspen motors. The inividual repeaters will be controlled by the IR RELAY BOARD. With the repeater stuck on the IR window of the Aspens, the Aspens will be blind to any IR command except the one coming from the repeater. More on this later.

Any remaining chanells on the relay board can be used to control curtains, blinds, air conditioning duct dampers, a STAR CEILING setup, Butt Kickers in the seats and...........

4) Regarding the mechanics, check this out http://www.firgelliauto.com/images/p...s/DumbWait.jpg

You can use the Wonder motor instead of a linear acutator.

The lift in the third photo with the drawer slides also looks promising. You can use a couple of pulleys to make that work. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...&ct=image&cd=1

5) A linear acutator http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php
would work best for motorizing the lens.Track acutators will work the best. Another channel of the relay board can be used to control this !!!!

Enough for now...
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post #386 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy238 View Post

Scottj0007, Teecue, ifeliciano, and HDGTX - awesome job on this project! I've been quietly (mostly) watching your progress on the masking motorization and am amazed how it all came together. You guys rock!!


Keep up the good work!
Andy

Thank you Andy and Thank You to everyone else who has followed this project with us. Your encouragement is very important to us. Keep those ideas and challanges coming in.

Teecue
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post #387 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Did you still use the dual relay circuit to energize your gear motor or did you change that also ?

For everyone's information:

Unless the new motor has the same current draw and voltage rating as the Aspen motor, a dedicated power supply is needed which makes the use of the relays necessary.

Teecue
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post #388 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

1) Motor travel control will not be a problem. Like ifeliciano said, we can use a couple of limitter / reversing switches at both end of the travel. You can put the switches by the cable which are then triggered by the movement of the cable. (I will put up a diagram later)

I can't waint for the diagram. I feel like I should be able to figure this stuff out, but for some reason I have a mental block on it. I could have never figured out the relay switch diagram that you posted, but once I saw it, it made perfect sense.

Quote:


2) The whole thing will be controlled by using a 12 channel IR controlled relay board.http://www.electronickits.com/kit/co...lec/ck1615.htm
I have looked into it and it looks very promising. It has a 38kHz frequency, which the Harmony should be able to learn. This board will be used for other things also.....

Cool. I had looked at the IR relay boards by Xantech. This one is a whole lot cheaper and I think I might like putting the kit together.

Quote:


3) An IR repeater http://www.smarthome.com/83608/Chann...IR-5000/p.aspxwill be used to control the different Aspen motors. The inividual repeaters will be controlled by the IR RELAY BOARD. With the repeater stuck on the IR window of the Aspens, the Aspens will be blind to any IR command except the one coming from the repeater. More on this later.

Fortunately, I already have a complete IR system by Xantech. I even have a bunch of extra repeaters. Now that you mention using the IR repeater with the IR Relay Board, it is starting to make sense to me how you can control multiple identical components with a programmable universal remote. Again, I probably should have been able to figure this out on my own. Thanks for your help!

Quote:


4) Regarding the mechanics, check this out http://www.firgelliauto.com/images/p...s/DumbWait.jpg

Nice setup. I am very limited on the amount of space I have above the ceiling (only about 10 or 11 inches). I'll have to be a little creative to make everything fit, but I think it can be done.

Quote:


5) A linear acutator http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php
would work best for motorizing the lens.Track acutators will work the best. Another channel of the relay board can be used to control this !!!!

Fortunately, I have a Prismasonic Lens that is already motorized with IR control, so I won't need to figure out a DIY motor for the lens.
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post #389 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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This is kind of rough, but I thought I would post a diagram of all of the pieces and how they are wired together for the motorization system. I have previously posted individual pictures of each of these parts, but this might help tie it all together. I know it looks complicated, but it really is not that bad when you start putting it all together.

I'll still do a parts list and detailed instructions when I can, but this might at least provide an idea of the big picture.




- Scott
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post #390 of 835 Old 02-10-2009, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post


I probably should have been able to figure this out on my own. Thanks for your help!

Scott,

You are most welcome. You are doing so much for this community, I am just glad to be a part of and contribute as much as I can to this project.

The Xantech would work fine. If the total hieght of the projector and lens assembly is about 8" then 11" of space above the ceiling should be enough.

I am working on the motor control schematic right now.

Teecue
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