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post #721 of 836 Old 04-01-2010, 07:22 PM
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i looking to make the 2 motor mask i make already the screen
http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-mask-curv-masking.html

i don't much electronic but i see you work is great i looking to this site http://www.01mech.com/ they make the servo detect the info of the rotation and you can connect direct to the controller not need interface for the motor that is great an is precise look this videos.


http://www.youtube.com/user/antona99#p/u/2/1fUwPSn32T8
http://www.youtube.com/user/antona99#p/u/1/-z0Giro4R7M
http://www.youtube.com/user/antona99#p/u/0/8jajnIBX2cU

and this is the servo there i buy is powerful i can't stooped

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-MG995-Hi-Spe...item230646a257

if you make it work you can make the board available for diy like me well be great keep looking to make it work.
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post #722 of 836 Old 04-11-2010, 04:43 PM
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Ok electronic masters I need some help. I finally got my 2 way masking mechanics all figured out and working. This week end I installed the Eagle rotor control system to make it all work. Everything is hooked up and working except for one big snag, neither the open or closed limit switches work. The masking moves fine, punch in a number and it goes right to it. But when you try and do a reset it doesn't stop the motor when it hits the limit switch. If it cut the power to the motor it does reset to 000 because it thinks that it stopped the motor. So the reset button works and the reset function works just not the stop switch.

I verified all wire were connected correct and checked continuity from the connection at the motor to the switches and it was good. Continuity broke when the swithces were pressed.

The only other thing that I can think of is if I tapped into the motor power correct. All I did was cut the two wires from the control board and hooked them to my relays. Does this power still need to feed through to the board on the motor, because mine doesn't.

And I thought I was finally going to have this thing done this week end


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post #723 of 836 Old 04-12-2010, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Mopar,
The wires must be connected to the limit switches exactly like they were hooked up when inside the rotor housing. The following picures show the original wiring in the housing and how my system is hooked up. If all the wires are hooked up correctly it should work...
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Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post


There are three switches on the rotator gearing. I've labeled them as follows:

"A" = This is the Minimum limit switch. When the motor is going in reverse direction (towards 0 degrees), the motor will automatically stop if this switch is pushed. It will stop regardless of whether or not the controller is at "0".

"B" = This is the Maximum limit switch. When the motor is going in forward direction, the motor will automatically stop if this switch is pushed.

"R" = I call this the reset switch. As nearly as I can tell, this switch only functions when the rotator is being recalibrated to find the 0 degree point. On the remote, you can press a series of buttons that cause the motor to go in reverse direction until it finds 0 degrees. When switch "R" is pressed in combination with switch "A", the motor stops, resets itself to 0 degrees, and then briefly goes forward to release switch "A".

In the following picture, the black gear has a bump on it that will press the button on gear "R" once each complete revolution. The bump on the gear is fairly wide, so the button stays pressed for a good length of time.

The white gear has two bumps on it. One is located on a lower ring and presses the button on switch "A". The other is located on a higher ring and presses the button on switch "B".


In the following pictures, the gears have been removed...






I have removed all of these switches from the rotator housing and place them at the limits of my masking. Switch "A" and "R" are pressed when my masking reaches its fully open position (2.40:1). Switch "B" is pressed when my masking reaches its fully closed position (4:3).


The wiring is exactly the same as what it was in the rotator housing. The only thing I did was extend the length of the wires.

One of the problems with the switches in the rotator housing is that the buttons are very small. To fix this, I went to Radio Shack and picked up some of their switches that have a roller lever attached. The Radio Shack Switches are the EXACT same switch, so I just removed the roller lever from the Radio Shack switches and placed them on the switches that I removed from the rotator.


Here is the RS switch


Slip a small precision screw driver under the clip on the side


Remove the roller lever


The roller lever can now be placed directly into the switches that were taken out of the Aspen Rotator. They fit perfectly.


This is the lower left corner of my masking. I think the pictures tell most of the story...










Let me know if you have questions.

- Scott

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post #724 of 836 Old 04-13-2010, 06:40 AM
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The switches really aren't the issue. What I was wondering is how you tapped into the motor power. What I did was cut both the motor + & - from the control board and run that to my relay. Well after some testing last night I think that I figured out that you still need to run the motor power to the board on the back of the motor to power the swithces, I though they were getting power from a different source.

So last night I cut the contacts that go from the board into the motor. I can't have the motor getting power as it is being spun by the actuall motor that is running the masking. Which of coarse make the board fall off the back of the motor. So then I glues the sensor board back on to the motor (JB Weld). Had to let that dry overnight, so maybe tonight I will have a chance to hook it back up and pull the power for the relay right from the + & - on the board and not splice into the motor power from the control board to the motor.


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post #725 of 836 Old 04-13-2010, 07:24 PM
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Ok I am loosing ground on this. Got everthing straight with the switch power now so that both limit switch work as they should along with the rest. But my controller seems to be FUBAR or something.

It will do a reset fine. Hit the Store 00 Store and it opens the mask first hitting the reset switch and then to open limit it switch where it stops right away. Then it resets and does the little advance deal where it closes the mask just enough to take it off the open limit switch. Now it gets funny, type in any number and it trys to open the masking further, hits the limit right away and stops. No matter what you do it only wants to run in the open direction.

I even unhooked my belt so the motor was just free wheelin. Type in 100 and it started going (in reverse) but never stopped when it got to 100, I let it run for over a minute and it never stoped at all.

Scott I know you have one rotor go bad on you, does this sound anything like what you had going on? I never cut any wires from the control board to the motor board other then the motor power wires.

It did work perfect before other then the limit switches didn't work, got them fixed and now it is just hosed. Trying to decided if I shuold order another rotor tomarrow.


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post #726 of 836 Old 04-13-2010, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Mopar,
That does sound somewhat similar to what my hosed controller did. I wonder if the controller programming gets fried somehow and then just stops working correctly. I had this happen to two controllers when I was doing a lot of fiddling around with them and/or mixing parts from different rotors. I still don't know for sure what messed them up.

(I'm sure you have already done this, but make sure that the wires to your motor are not crossed so that it is opening when it should be closing.)

The one thing that you describe that I do not remember happening with my hosed controller is that I don't think the open limit switch and reset switch worked correctly when my controller was messed up. (I can't remember for sure.) If this still works correctly with your controller you might still be in luck.

I spent hours and hours trying to fix my "hosed" controllers but never made any progress. If the program in the controller is fried, I think the only option is to get another.
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post #727 of 836 Old 04-14-2010, 07:10 AM
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Well I went ahead and ordered another one today, but it won't get here untill next week.....

I am sure stuff is running the correct direction otherwise the open limit switch wouldn't work and it wouldn't do the advance forward when it does the rest if it was backward.

Can you think of any better way to disable power to the motor. I am using the entire motor but spining the gear on the end of it with the shaft on my masking. So I need to cut power to the motor so it is not trying to fight the masking shaft. Originally I cut both the + & - going to the motor control board and hooked them to my realys. These are pictures that I stold from Ifeliciano's post, if you look close at the wires that is the same thing I done. But when I did this the limit switches didn't work, but the rest switch did.




My next thought was that the motor power still needed to go to the board on the motor to power the switches, the motor power simply makes a big loop through the swithces. So I hooked the Motor + wire from the control board to the blue wire going to the switches then the green wire from switches to one relay trigger wire and the motor - wire to the other relay trigger wire. This did make the switches work as they should and it did do a normal rest once and seem to work fine for a couple of trys. Then it started doing the backwards thing.

So next I hooked all wire back to the motor board as they originaly were. I had to keep power from getting to the motor so I cut the contacts that go from the board to the motor. This is what also holds the board to the motor so I had to reattach to board to the motor. I then soldered wires to the cut contacts that went to the motor.

Maybe next time I will try and take the motor apart and pull the brushes out of it.


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post #728 of 836 Old 04-14-2010, 07:32 AM
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When you get this all working any chance of a youtube video? Id love to see it in action. Im planning on doing my own DIY screen someday.


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post #729 of 836 Old 04-14-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

When you get this all working any chance of a youtube video? Id love to see it in action. Im planning on doing my own DIY screen someday.

You might get a video of my strapping dynamite around it first......


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post #730 of 836 Old 04-15-2010, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

When you get this all working any chance of a youtube video? Id love to see it in action. Im planning on doing my own DIY screen someday.

Here's my youtube video.
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post #731 of 836 Old 04-15-2010, 01:30 PM
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My new rotor should be here tommarow if the tracking is correct. Also I decided to order and small gear and belt system to sping the motor and sensor since I have to change it any way. Right now I was using the original gear on the motor and a gear out of the gear box. It is gear to gear and makes a big of noise. Belt wont get here until Monday so I don't know if I will do anything until Monday.


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post #732 of 836 Old 04-15-2010, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

Can you think of any better way to disable power to the motor. I am using the entire motor but spining the gear on the end of it with the shaft on my masking. So I need to cut power to the motor so it is not trying to fight the masking shaft. Originally I cut both the + & - going to the motor control board and hooked them to my realys...

My next thought was that the motor power still needed to go to the board on the motor to power the switches, the motor power simply makes a big loop through the swithces. So I hooked the Motor + wire from the control board to the blue wire going to the switches then the green wire from switches to one relay trigger wire and the motor - wire to the other relay trigger wire. This did make the switches work as they should and it did do a normal rest once and seem to work fine for a couple of trys. Then it started doing the backwards thing.

So next I hooked all wire back to the motor board as they originaly were. I had to keep power from getting to the motor so I cut the contacts that go from the board to the motor. This is what also holds the board to the motor so I had to reattach to board to the motor. I then soldered wires to the cut contacts that went to the motor.

Maybe next time I will try and take the motor apart and pull the brushes out of it.

Mopar,
If you splice into the white ribbon wire, you only need to splice into the "+" wire and run this splice to your relays to power your new motor. Do not splice into the "-" wire.

The only thing you should need to do to the switch wires is extend them for length. Nothing else should be modified for the switches. Above you state, "I hooked the Motor + wire from the control board to the blue wire going to the switches then the green wire from switches to one relay trigger wire and the motor - wire to the other relay trigger wire.". This is not needed and it could be the step that fried the controller. Again, the only thing you should need to change on the switches is the length of the wires, nothing else.

Since you are connecting the original small rotor motor and hall sensor board directly to your masking, I think you do need to cut the power to the little motor. To do this, I think I would just snip the copper connectors that go between the motor board and the motor itself.
- Scott
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post #733 of 836 Old 04-15-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Mopar,
If you splice into the white ribbon wire, you only need to splice into the "+" wire and run this splice to your relays to power your new motor. Do not splice into the "-" wire.

The only thing you should need to do to the switch wires is extend them for length. Nothing else should be modified for the switches. Above you state, "I hooked the Motor + wire from the control board to the blue wire going to the switches then the green wire from switches to one relay trigger wire and the motor - wire to the other relay trigger wire.". This is not needed and it could be the step that fried the controller. Again, the only thing you should need to change on the switches is the length of the wires, nothing else.

Since you are connecting the original small rotor motor and hall sensor board directly to your masking, I think you do need to cut the power to the little motor. To do this, I think I would just snip the copper connectors that go between the motor board and the motor itself.
- Scott

I did cut the copper connectors like you said, which makes the board fall of so I glued it back on. This next time around I think I will take the motor apart and pull the brushes out and get power from their instead of cutting the connectors.

The only reason I spliced into the - wire was to disable the motor, which had the side effect of taking power from the switches. Hard to say what messed it up. I think maybe too many resets from different starting points and such. The other thing is that when I did splice into the - & + wires originally I was getting really strange power reading at the switches. Well after thinking about it the original motor was acting like a little generator at that point and fedding a small amount of voltage back into the system, so who knows....


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post #734 of 836 Old 04-20-2010, 06:37 AM
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Scott have a quick question for you,

Started working on my second rotor last night and noticed something different with the reset switching. On the first rotor it looked like when doing a reset the limit switch and the reset swtich were depressed at the same time, first hitting the reset and then the limit.

On this new rotor when you do a reset the lobe depresses the reset switch and they completely releases it and then hits the limit switch. Stops and does its roll forward which releases the limit switch and depresses the reset switch again.

The way I have my switches set up, looks like yours are the same, is that the reset is held down the entire time until the limit switch is hit. Just wanted to verify that yours works that way so this one doesn't get screwed up also.

I tried doing a reset on my messed up rotor using the swiching sequence on the new rotor.

1) Started a reset and they pressed and released the reset switch
2) Press and hold limit switch untill motor stops and it starts its forward advance
3) Release the limit switch and press the rest switch. If you don't press the reset switch it will keep running forward, I thought the forward advance was just a preset number of revolutions that it advanced, but it does look for the reset switch.

I thought hey it might work, but no, it still runs backwards........

Hope to get the new one mounted up tonight I just want to verify that my reset switches are ok but being pressed at the same time. Which looking at your pictures yours have to be doing the same thing.


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post #735 of 836 Old 04-20-2010, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Mopar,
Yes, mine is set up so that the reset is held down the entire time until the limit switch is hit.
- Scott
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post #736 of 836 Old 04-21-2010, 06:43 AM
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Thanks for the verification. Didn't get enough time last night to get everything going, too much going on. Hope to get to it tonight.


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post #737 of 836 Old 04-21-2010, 07:02 PM
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Well I am about at the end of my rope. Installed new everything, test and moved open and closed when numbers punched in no problem everything working perfect. Did a reset to 0 it out and same crap, it only wants to open now....


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post #738 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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This is frustrating!
Did everything work properly in the original rotator housing before you began?
If I understand your setup correctly you are doing the following:
- you spliced into the "+" wire on the ribbon that goes from the larger controller board to the small board on the back of the little rotor motor.
- the two sides of the spliced "+" wire are going to a relay board that you made. This relay board supplies the power to your large motor that you are using to run the masking.
- you have extended all of the wires for the limit and reset switches, but have made no other changes to the wiring of the switches.
- you have kept the little rotor motor intact and you have connected it directly to the roller bar on your masking using either gears or a belt. The small motor still has the hall sensor board on the back of it and you are using it to keep track of the position of the masking. (Did you cut power to the little motor?)
- Anything else?

Could you either post some pictures or a detailed diagram of your setup?

I understand your frustration. I was at the same point for a while with my system. Don't give up yet...

- Scott
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post #739 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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By any chance did you use any of the parts from your original rotor when you set up your second system (motor or control board)?
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post #740 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

This is frustrating!
Did everything work properly in the original rotator housing before you began?
If I understand your setup correctly you are doing the following:
- you spliced into the "+" wire on the ribbon that goes from the larger controller board to the small board on the back of the little rotor motor.
- the two sides of the spliced "+" wire are going to a relay board that you made. This relay board supplies the power to your large motor that you are using to run the masking.
- you have extended all of the wires for the limit and reset switches, but have made no other changes to the wiring of the switches.
- you have kept the little rotor motor intact and you have connected it directly to the roller bar on your masking using either gears or a belt. The small motor still has the hall sensor board on the back of it and you are using it to keep track of the position of the masking. (Did you cut power to the little motor?)
- Anything else?

Could you either post some pictures or a detailed diagram of your setup?

I understand your frustration. I was at the same point for a while with my system. Don't give up yet...

- Scott

Everything you wrote is exactly right, that is how it is.
I did use all new parts, didn't use anything from the old rotor because of your past problems.
The rotor did work fine in the housing, did a couple of resets with out issue

I did cut power to the little motor, I actually took it apart and pulled the brushes out of it. One side effect of this is that when I first hooked all the new stuff up I wasn't getting any power to the motor. Well taking out the brushes broke the curcuit. So I had to solder a piece of wire from the + to the - on the motor control board. I should have just hooked the wires from my relay to these terminal in the first place then I wouldn't even of had to cut the + motor wire. It moved back and worth fine after this modification.

I sent an e-mail in to Apen support but I am not too hope full of that.


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post #741 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just guessing here, but I wonder if it caused a problem when you soldered a piece of wire from the + to the - on the motor control board. Could it be that when the reset switch is triggered, that the control board needs to sense the power being cut to the motor on the board rather than having the power pass on through the board and being cut later in the circuit?

On one of my early versions, I spliced into the white ribbon + wire for my relay, but I left the original little motor intact. It worked fine. On my current setup, I have soldered directly onto the + and the - on the motor control board for my relay. This is working fine as well.
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post #742 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 06:44 PM
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Hello Scott and Mopar,
Couple of things first.

Both the + and the - of the ribbon cable to the motor need to be cut and the wire coming from the main control board should go to the relay board. The motor + and - have nothing to do with the supply to the Hall Sensor. NO power should be applied to ANY of the switches.
Mopar, a few photos would be very helpful to solve this mystery.

Teecue
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post #743 of 836 Old 04-22-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Hello Scott and Mopar,
Couple of things first.

Both the + and the - of the ribbon cable to the motor need to be cut and the wire coming from the main control board should go to the relay board. The motor + and - have nothing to do with the supply to the Hall Sensor. NO power should be applied to ANY of the switches.
Mopar, a few photos would be very helpful to solve this mystery.

Teecue

I have some pictures I will post tomarrow morning. You can not cut the + & - wire from the main control board to the sensor board. I done this my first time around. And while it will activate the relays and work fine, the limit swithces will not work if you stop the power from going to the sensor board. When the motor is powered the power makes a complete loop through the swithces and the motor, so power has to go to the sensor board to get to the switches.

As far as jumping the + & - on the sensor board goes. It really works out exactly the same as when you spliced your relays into the + & - scott. My first go around was hooked direct to the + & - with out cutting the wires like yours is, same result.


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post #744 of 836 Old 04-23-2010, 07:18 AM
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Not the greatest pictures, things are a bit of a mess right now, but here ya go.





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post #745 of 836 Old 04-23-2010, 09:04 AM
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HOLY ......!!

This looks more like an industrial set up than a DIY system. Great work!
Is it possible to take a photo of the back of the motor with the Hall Sensor?

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post #746 of 836 Old 04-23-2010, 09:29 AM
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Ya I am more into building cars and trucks then pianos....

I don't have a good close picture of the hall sensor itself, this is as good as I got right now.

I really don't think that it has anything to do with the sensor. The control board is not sending the correct polarity of voltage to the sensor board after a reset.



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post #747 of 836 Old 04-23-2010, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Impressive work! Very heavy-duty looking.

The primary difference I can see between my setup and yours is that I am connecting my relay through the + and - on the small motor control board rather than through the white ribbon + wire. I would not think this would make a difference but maybe somehow it does.

Any luck with your email to Eagle Aspen?
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post #748 of 836 Old 04-23-2010, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Impressive work! Very heavy-duty looking.

The primary difference I can see between my setup and yours is that I am connecting my relay through the + and - on the small motor control board rather than through the white ribbon + wire. I would not think this would make a difference but maybe somehow it does.

Any luck with your email to Eagle Aspen?

On my first failed attempt I did have it hooked right to the + & - on the motor board with the same result. It really should make no differnce where you slice into to motor power. It is just one big loop: from control board - motor board - limit switch #1 - limit switch #2 - motor - back to control board.

Have heard nothing from Aspen, should try and call them but I am just too busy at work right now.


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post #749 of 836 Old 04-24-2010, 02:43 PM
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Mopar, lets try a different approach.

1) Power up every thing, do a reset and put the remote aside.The remote is not needed for now.

2) Disconnect the masking motor and its power supply from the relay board and power up the motor independantly so that masking starts closing and comes to where you want it to be, eg in the midlle (fully closed).

3) While the masking is closing observe the display and see which way the numbers go. 0..1,2,3,.... OR 0..449,448,447 etc.

4) Once the masking is closed, reconnect the motor and the power supply to the relay board and do another reset with the remote. See which way the screen moves and which way the numbers go.

This may give a clue to the problem.


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post #750 of 836 Old 04-26-2010, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Mopar, lets try a different approach.

1) Power up every thing, do a reset and put the remote aside.The remote is not needed for now.

2) Disconnect the masking motor and its power supply from the relay board and power up the motor independantly so that masking starts closing and comes to where you want it to be, eg in the midlle (fully closed).

3) While the masking is closing observe the display and see which way the numbers go. 0..1,2,3,.... OR 0..449,448,447 etc.

4) Once the masking is closed, reconnect the motor and the power supply to the relay board and do another reset with the remote. See which way the screen moves and which way the numbers go.

This may give a clue to the problem.


Teecue


Sorry I haven't been on all week end, ben pretty busy trying to get landscaping done.

I can give that a try, don't know that the numbers will actually even move though if the controller is not telling it to.

I have closed the masking by running the masking motor manually, but I also un pluged the rotor control when I did it. Then did another resest and it moved to the open position just like it should and did a normal looking reset.

I am not sure when I will get to this because I have more steps and retaining walls to build at nights this week that take priority over the theater room.


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