XD-E500 Owners thread. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kbgl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My projector will accept a 480p, 720p or 1080i signal on HDMI, or component.

Will the sharpness, contrast, 24fps, and color all work at 480p resolution, on component?

Do they all work at 480p, 720p, and 1080i on HDMI?

It was mentioned that this player had very good sound quality on HDMI. I use the optical or digital coax output from my current sources, and connect them to my pre-pro. I was under the impression that the digital out from dvd players would sound the same. Is there any reason this player would sound better than others using the digital out? Does a dvd player decode or process the sound tracks before they are output digitally?
kbgl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 08:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
Doug G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
XDE modes only work in 1080i/p modes, although I think someone reported it worked in 720p when used as a result of "Auto" mode. Pretty sure components are limited to 480p for copy-protected material, so HDMI is your best bet. 24fps only avilable for 1080p. If you bitstream, then sound should be the same since pre/pro or receiver does the decoding.
Doug G is offline  
post #183 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 08:48 AM
Senior Member
 
N8YWF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any of the Star Wars DVDs are RCE. You could use one of those to test.
N8YWF is offline  
post #184 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 08:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
Doug G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8YWF View Post

Any of the Star Wars DVDs are RCE. You could use one of those to test.

Thanks, I do own all 6 of these so I'll pop one in later tonight to check it out and report back.
Doug G is offline  
post #185 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Well, I couldn't help it and had to try out one of these for myself. I spent some time last night taking it through the usual rounds. Comparing it to the BD-30 and A-35, there is no question it is sharper. However, the color mode looks a lot like the DNLE mode on Samsung televisions, very unnatural. It might look good with animation. I wasn't able to try with CGI or animation. First, it is NOT a BD killer in any shape or form. Further, it really is only marginally better. If the scene looks terrible to start with, this machine will not clear it up. It will still look bad. It's not magical as some would have us believe. Having said that, it is somewhat sharper and I found Star Wars E3 to be noticeable sharper. I found the Fellowship of the Ring to be marginally sharper but unnatural in it's sharpness and the color mode on this movie was whack. I also tried Braveheart which did sharper some of the edges and objects but again, it was marginal. I had a hard time noticing any difference with the contrast mode. Still, I think I will keep this player as there are improvements with some DVDs. I'm guessing the best encodes will display the best improvements. BD is not in any way in trouble. I also made the mistake of watching part of the Nightmare Before Christmas on BD later last night. It just blows away anything on DVD, XDE or not. In summary, this machine is not magical but does offer some improvements even if they are marginal. The review that states VHS=1 and BD, HDDVD=10 with XDE as 8.5 is smoking a bit of Arkansas rabbit weed. If regular upconverters are 5-6 than this machine adds a .5 (5.5-6.5) at best.
Rach is offline  
post #186 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
larrimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdzie1 View Post

No. In my opinion, the XDE is a fine DVD player, but it in no way poses a threat to Blu-ray by making DVD look comparable.

I totally disagree! Blu-ray has a lot going against it already.

#1- it is not a leap ahead of DVD on 75% of displays sold. If you see a difference on your 40" LCD (or below), more power to you, but that is not going to be the case for many people. And, I might add, this is more than 50% of the displays sold today and going higher (the trend in sales is to smaller HD displays as the mass market begins to move to HDTV).

#2- Even on larger displays, many people fit DVD into the "good enough" category. Maybe this is due to the cost differential of BD or maybe it is the old argument that the WOW factor is not as evident on film based programs (99% of movies) as it is on video based programming like sports on TV, I don't know.

#3 The whole HD DVD fiasco has left FUD in many people's minds that will take time to alleviate. Many people bought into a failed format and saw how quickly support can be withdrawn and content can dry up. In fact, a decent sized percentage of the population came into DVD from VHS because they were forced to since content dried up, not because of quality. Maybe they wonder if the same can happen to BD (downloads, flash media, or the next "step up" format) in the future.

The three items above have the possibility of affecting a large percentage of consumers. If something reasonably priced can blur the line between HD and SD even slightly, it may just be the tipping point for a bunch of people. That, my friends, makes the difference between "niche market" and "mass adoption". For me, it makes little difference, niche market is OK as long as content is readily availble as I plan and buy most of my purchases online. But for many, it may mean not picking up that BD movie they see while getting milk at the grocery store, which further solidifies a niche market for the rest of us and, I might add, keeps prices higher.

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
larrimore is offline  
post #187 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
larrimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rach View Post

Well, I couldn't help it and had to try out one of these for myself. I spent some time last night taking it through the usual rounds. Comparing it to the BD-30 and A-35, there is no question it is sharper. However, the color mode looks a lot like the DNLE mode on Samsung televisions, very unnatural. It might look good with animation. I wasn't able to try with CGI or animation. First, it is NOT a BD killer in any shape or form. Further, it really is only marginally better. If the scene looks terrible to start with, this machine will not clear it up. It will still look bad. It's not magical as some would have us believe. Having said that, it is somewhat sharper and I found Star Wars E3 to be noticeable sharper. I found the Fellowship of the Ring to be marginally sharper but unnatural in it's sharpness and the color mode on this movie was whack. I also tried Braveheart which did sharper some of the edges and objects but again, it was marginal. I had a hard time noticing any difference with the contrast mode. Still, I think I will keep this player as there are improvements with some DVDs. I'm guessing the best encodes will display the best improvements. BD is not in any way in trouble. I also made the mistake of watching part of the Nightmare Before Christmas on BD later last night. It just blows away anything on DVD, XDE or not. In summary, this machine is not magical but does offer some improvements even if they are marginal. The review that states VHS=1 and BD, HDDVD=10 with XDE as 8.5 is smoking a bit of Arkansas rabbit weed. If regular upconverters are 5-6 than this machine adds a .5 (5.5-6.5) at best.

One of the rabbit weed smokers here.

What mode did you use? 720/1080 or 1080/24. On anything but 1080/24 I would agree with you. But, on 1080/24, I think it does noticably better.

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
larrimore is offline  
post #188 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I want to emphasize Toshiba's contribution here in adding value to this product. Sure the Zoran decoding and image processing and scaling chips are are an excellent baseline. But Toshiba's dynamic algorithms contained in their IC take the Zoran picture quality to new heights. The end result is both subsystems work to complement each other. You can't have one without the other.

Note: many HD displays today have oversaturated color in their default position. Turn it down please! Same too goes for sharpness.

Note2: obviously Toshiba is using the correct HD colorspace

Note3: Always match the display/playback rate to the record rate. 24Hz for film and 60Hz for video. How can you tell if you are in the wrong mode? Crappy PQ - as when you see coarse double horizontal lines and artifacting while in play mode only: not in pause mode. Pause mode always shows double lines.
reincarnate is offline  
post #189 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
arkiedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Heartland of America
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My first XD-E played two discs and went belly up - dead! I returned it and got the replacement yesterday and played with it for several hours. I should say out front that I love HD-DVD and Blu Ray and have an extensive library of both. I didn't believe for a minute that any sd disc could come close. I was wrong.

My present system is a Sony 60A3000 HD rear projector, Onkyo 805 AVR, Panasonic BD30 Blu Ray player, Toshiba A35 HD DVD player and now this Toshiba XD-E. I set the XD-E resolution at 1080P24 since my TV can handle it.

My A35 is a fine upconverter and so I made all comparisons with that player. Frankly, I love the BD30 for blu discs but it falls well behind the A35 when playing SD discs.

Mel Gibson's Apocalypto is a great sd dvd and image quality is excellent. I played this disc on both players, switching back and forth numerous times, and was continuously surprised and impressed by the image quality of the XD-E over the A35. I was taken aback by the sharper images, the complete lack of edge artifacts and the great contrast and color.

I played with the settings with the following results:

Sharp: this setting is on all the time (unless you turn off all image adjustments) and has a subtle effect on the image quality. In almost every scene it improved the picture noticeably and gave a pleasant 3D look to the film.

Color: Many folks will like this setting but I didn't. It adds a touch of color to greens and blues and as far as color goes I'm a minimalist. The added color was too intense and distracting for me. I'll leave the "color" setting off.

Contrast: I liked this setting. It was subtile but very real and it often causedthe image to "pop" as they say these days. I never thought it was too strong so I'll use this setting for most viewing.

Off: The XD-E does a great job with the settings off. If they were not there to play with I would have still considered this a fine dvd player.

It should be said that the settings are readily available on the remote and it's easy and painless to change them while viewing. I've heard complaints that people don't want to change settings during a movie but it's really a non-issue.

The problem with getting the correct aspect ratio when set to 16:9 was not an issue for me. I can quickly change that with the Sony's "Wide" button so that too is a non-issue.

Overall, I was shocked by the heft of this player. Even when I picked up the box I thought, "There can't be anything in here?" It's that light! And, when unpacked, it weights almost nothing. Still, for me anyway, it produced as promised.

Frankly, I was planning to buy the Oppo 983 (and still might, though it's $250 more) until now. Now I think I might stay with the XD-E. It won't play my SACDs but I have another player I can use for them. I understand it can be setup to handle PAL, region 2 discs and so that eliminates another concern for me.

I've read many negative comments on various forums regarding this player. Many, if not all, are by people who don't own it or who's display won't benefit from it's feature set. All I can say is: you folks are missing out on a fine player. At $150 it's not the cheapest upconverter out there but it's far from the most expensive. And, IMO it can compete with those that cost far more than $150. Can it compete with HD? Again, IMO it can. Considering the price of HD discs these days and the bargains that can be had on SD discs (many will never see HD!) it can more than compete.

The bottom-line: If you're one of those guys who says things like, "I'd rather watch a lousy movie in Hd than a great movie in SD," this player is not for you. Buy those overpriced discs and enjoy them while I play my SDs through this player and watch great movies with IQ very near your's.

Addition: I have two copies of Casablanca, one HD DVD and one straight out of Walmart's bargain bin at $5.00.

I simultaneously ran both, the HD DVD in the A35 and the SD in the XD-E, switching back and forth. The $5.00 SD version in the XD-E was excellent and, believe it or not, very close to the HD version. I found it best with the filters switched off. I then ran the SD in the A35 player and found IQ inferior with more noise than the XD-E, which gave the disc a smoother, less noisy appearance, closer to the HD version.

I have a copy of the Superbit SD, "Desperado," which looks very good on the A35. In the XD-E it was better, terrific in fact, and my wife and son thought it was a new HD disc.

arkiedan
arkiedan is offline  
post #190 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
larrimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

As you may know, I have a boatload of HD DVD/BD players (It is a long story, but I can sum it up by saying I bought them all when everyone was dumping HD DVD in February- I bought movies and got the players for virtually nill). So, I have been trying to do comparisons/ratings between this player and most of them. Last night I got around to the LG BH200 and after playing with it, I can get a close approximation of the Tosh with it.

I ended with the BH200 set with max sharpness in the video tweaks and bumped the blue and green color settings from the default 25 to a setting of 30. It gives as close an approximation of the Toshiba as I have seen and I A-B'd them back and forth using two copies of Fast and Furious Tokyo and the players are darn close. Like the Toshiba, the difference only seemed pleasing to me at 1080/24P for some reason. At 720P, both players look a little unnatural. The Samsung with Reon couldn't come close to the BH200 (doesn't have the adjustments), but the XA2 might- I no longer have an XA2, but I do remember on-board tweaks on it.

With the BH200 at $339 at BB this week and 10% coupons all around, it may be a terrific alternative for some of you. It plays HD DVD and Blu Ray to boot and LG has stated it will be upgraded to support BD 2.0 at some time in the near future as it apparently has enough on-board storage. Just FYI

OK, upon further review, I can say the XDE is better than the BH200. The BH200 does a great job, and looks close set up as I describe here. However, the sharpness setting does cause ringing and odd edges which the Tosh doesn't have. IMHO, this XDE is great at what it does (within the limitations I have laid out previously).

Just an update.

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
larrimore is offline  
post #191 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I totally disagree! Blu-ray has a lot going against it already.

#1- it is not a leap ahead of DVD on 75% of displays sold. If you see a difference on your 40" LCD (or below), more power to you, but that is not going to be the case for many people. And, I might add, this is more than 50% of the displays sold today and going higher (the trend in sales is to smaller HD displays as the mass market begins to move to HDTV).

Question. Have you personally ever hooked an HD DVD or Blu-Ray player up to a 32-40" LCD and compared HDM to upconverted DVD on the same HDTV? I have. Multiple times. There is a definite difference. My wife is not even close to being a videophile and she spotted it right away as well (this was on a 32" 720p LCD from 6-7' away comparing Batman Begins on HD DVD and DVD, as well as comparing Pirates on BD and DVD). If I can see the difference and my wife can see the difference, why can't "most people"? I hear this being thrown out all the time on various forums "most people can't see the difference" and I guess I don't understand it. I completely do not agree with it. I think most people will see the difference. It is whether or not they want to pay to see the difference is the biggest question I have..

Quote:


#2- Even on larger displays, many people fit DVD into the "good enough" category. Maybe this is due to the cost differential of BD or maybe it is the old argument that the WOW factor is not as evident on film based programs (99% of movies) as it is on video based programming like sports on TV, I don't know.

I think it has everything to do with the price. Once BD player hit that critical $199 and below territory (and they clearly will with Funai dropping their MSRP to $249 in September). As for the WOW factor I see it very clearly. Months ago I put in Planet Earth and Casino Royale on BD at a party and people were floored. By the end of the night everyone knew what the term Blu-Ray meant. I originally put it in for a group of us guys (there were 6 of us, and within 30 minutes all the wives had come downstairs and the husbands were talking about wanting a Blu-Ray player).

Quote:


#3 The whole HD DVD fiasco has left FUD in many people's minds that will take time to alleviate. Many people bought into a failed format and saw how quickly support can be withdrawn and content can dry up. In fact, a decent sized percentage of the population came into DVD from VHS because they were forced to since content dried up, not because of quality. Maybe they wonder if the same can happen to BD (downloads, flash media, or the next "step up" format) in the future.

Sorry, but most people had no idea what HD DVD and Blu-Ray were when they first came out and I doubt many people even heard or cared about Toshiba throwing in the towel in February. Many people are just now seeing HD cable and satelitte for the first time, let alone Blu-Ray. It will take years for Blu-Ray to become a term most people recognize and understand. I think we are lucky the format war ended as quick as it did. As for VHS, I seem to remember most retailers and rental outfits carrying it well into 2002-2003. DVD started taking off in 1999-2000. I don't really see studios phasing out DVD anytime soon, although Warner Bros recently made the comment that they would slowly phase DVD out in favor of BD and VOD. I personally think BD and DVD will be living together side-by-side for another 10 years.

Quote:


The three items above have the possibility of affecting a large percentage of consumers. If something reasonably priced can blur the line between HD and SD even slightly, it may just be the tipping point for a bunch of people. That, my friends, makes the difference between "niche market" and "mass adoption". For me, it makes little difference, niche market is OK as long as content is readily availble as I plan and buy most of my purchases online. But for many, it may mean not picking up that BD movie they see while getting milk at the grocery store, which further solidifies a niche market for the rest of us and, I might add, keeps prices higher.

The problem with an XDE or Oppo type player is that you are expecting the masses to understand the difference between those players and $40-100 upconverting players from other name brand companies. Go look at Best Buy. They have 11 "1080p" upconverting players by name brand companies (Philips, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic) for $100 or less. If somebody has really done their homework and really cares about the PQ (not to mention AQ/extras) I would advocate that they would most likely spend another $100 or so (even less in the upcoming years) and buy a Blu-Ray player.

Will upconverting players steal some Blu-Ray sales away? Undoubtedly. Especially when the price of Blu-Ray is still relatively high. But over the next year or two, I doubt there will be much more than a $50 difference between a very good upconverting player and a good BD player.
ack_bk is offline  
post #192 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

One of the rabbit weed smokers here.

What mode did you use? 720/1080 or 1080/24. On anything but 1080/24 I would agree with you. But, on 1080/24, I think it does noticably better.

I used 1080/24. I just didn't see it on every DVD. It is marginally better IMO. Marginally better than anything I own.
Rach is offline  
post #193 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kbgl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G View Post

XDE modes only work in 1080i/p modes, although I think someone reported it worked in 720p when used as a result of "Auto" mode. Pretty sure components are limited to 480p for copy-protected material, so HDMI is your best bet. 24fps only avilable for 1080p. If you bitstream, then sound should be the same since pre/pro or receiver does the decoding.

So since my projector will not accept a 1080p signal on HDMI, I don't get the 24fps benefit, and I must use HDMI to use the color, contrast, and sharpness features, as they are not available at 480p on component.

Are you sure about all bitstream being the same? I thought so too, but a few days ago, I switched players and played a concert video that I had played the day before, and it seemed different. Very likely my hearing was affected by allergies or something, but I'd like to know for sure without doing a lot of needless A/B testing between players.
kbgl is offline  
post #194 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 11:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

They have 11 "1080p" upconverting players by name brand companies (Philips, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic) for $100 or less. If somebody has really done their homework and really cares about the PQ (not to mention AQ/extras) I would advocate that they would most likely spend another $100 or so (even less in the upcoming years) and buy a Blu-Ray player.

Will upconverting players steal some Blu-Ray sales away? Undoubtedly. Especially when the price of Blu-Ray is still relatively high. But over the next year or two, I doubt there will be much more than a $50 difference between a very good upconverting player and a good BD player.

Today the "name brands" have inferior SD playback quality. Blu-ray players are nowhere near $200. Fanboys predicted prices would drop, instead they (and especially discs) shot-up. The discs are easily $40 compared to $5 nearly new rentals. Do the real math.

Here is shining example of the bias at AVS. I dare anyone to go post the superior playback of the Toshiba 500 of standard definition discs is compared to any Blu-ray player - in the Blu-ray forum
I already did and my posts were removed. The thread title was "What you don't like about your Blu-ray player". I replied and said my PS3 playback looked inferior to the Toshiba 500.

Guess what happened? My post was removed even though I'm a Blu-ray owner with over 100 discs and my response was directly answering the title of the thread.
reincarnate is offline  
post #195 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 11:34 AM
Member
 
emthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
AFAIK, the RCE hack is needed only for XE1/XA2 players and needs to be applied each time an RCE disc is inserted. If XDE hack is permanent, it most likely doesn't require an extra hack for some (RCE coded) discs. So, no, you haven't screwed up your system. Your player should remain region free for all discs (if you pressed 9):-)
emthree is offline  
post #196 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 11:53 AM
Member
 
mike--'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just got this Tosh Xd-E500. I already have a Samsung BDP5000 (which plays both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray ) and a Sony BDP-S300, and a Tosh A30...........and this XD-E500 blows them all away as for upconverting!! The picture is just stunning!! Great Value!
mike-- is offline  
post #197 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 11:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
theflux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Blu-ray players are nowhere near $200. Fanboys predicted prices would drop, instead they (and especially discs) shot-up.

No they didn't. Prices have come down and continue to come down. The recent Walmart deal is one example, the Best Buy Insignia player is another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

The discs are easily $40 compared to $5 nearly new rentals. Do the real math.

Do what math? The MSRP for Blu-ray has always been at $40 for some titles, and need I remind you that was the MSRP for some HD DVDs as well. I challenge you to post evidence that MSRP has risen at all, let alone shot up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Here is shining example of the bias at AVS. I dare anyone to go post the superior playback of the Toshiba 500 of standard definition discs is compared to any Blu-ray player - in the Blu-ray forum

This is more like a shining example of the Mods keeping the forum clean. You admit that you posted in the Blu-ray player forum about something that is not a Blu-ray player. What did you expect would happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

I already did and my posts were removed.

Good.
theflux is offline  
post #198 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:12 PM
Member
 
mike--'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Toshiba seems to be on to something with this definetly!........and if they tweak it to fix the 4 X 3 situation (currently you have to reduce the resolution to 480p to view discs in their normal aspect ratio-which is not upconverting-and the XDE function will only work in 1080I/P mode), but I honestly can't tell a difference in PQ from the same film in HD DVD or Blu-Ray-and I have several where a have the standard disc AND the equalivant of the HD/Blu-Ray disc! For example: I'm currently watching Mutiny on the Bounty(the 1962 Brando version) in HD DVD on my Tosh A30........and the SD version on the XDE.........and the XDE shows remarkable color enhancement vs. the HD version! I'm viewing it on my 42' Sharp Aquos LC-42D64U. And just as sharp a picture too. One the best investments you can get in regards to viewing Anamorphic films!!
mike-- is offline  
post #199 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
av.pallino's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 1,874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflux View Post

No they didn't. Prices have come down and continue to come down. The recent Walmart deal is one example, the Best Buy Insignia player is another.

Do what math? The MSRP for Blu-ray has always been at $40 for some titles, and need I remind you that was the MSRP for some HD DVDs as well. I challenge you to post evidence that MSRP has risen at all, let alone shot up.

This is more like a shining example of the Mods keeping the forum clean. You admit that you posted in the Blu-ray player forum about something that is not a Blu-ray player. What did you expect would happen?

Good.

Two things to keep in mind:

1. There is far more content on DVD than Blu Ray and each week the gap increases at an icreasing rate. don't believe me? check out the release schedule.

2. The Toshiba easily beats the upconverting capabilities of any set top Blu Ray player, upto ones that cost 10X as much - with the exception of the Reon and qdeo based palyers. The current SOny, Panny and Pioneer players are very sub standard DVD players. The PS3 is good as weel.

There you have it! Unless you are one of those who are satisfied with the Blu Ray schedule, an effective DVD solution is required today. The Toshiba is an excellent choice.
av.pallino is offline  
post #200 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nextoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Let's not derail this thread and turn it into the XDE versus Blu-ray debate. Or even a HD versus SD debate. The thread is the XDE-500 OWNERS thread.

I'm starting to see "smackdown" posters from other forums drift into this thread trying to turn the discussion into a format debate. Curious BR promoters who have an agenda. Again this is an XDE owners thread - not a thread to promote high definition. There are other forums and threads on this site designed for that type of discussion.
nextoo is offline  
post #201 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
larrimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Question. Have you personally ever hooked an HD DVD or Blu-Ray player up to a 32-40" LCD and compared HDM to upconverted DVD on the same HDTV? I have. Multiple times. There is a definite difference. My wife is not even close to being a videophile and she spotted it right away as well (this was on a 32" 720p LCD from 6-7' away comparing Batman Begins on HD DVD and DVD, as well as comparing Pirates on BD and DVD). If I can see the difference and my wife can see the difference, why can't "most people"? I hear this being thrown out all the time on various forums "most people can't see the difference" and I guess I don't understand it. I completely do not agree with it. I think most people will see the difference. It is whether or not they want to pay to see the difference is the biggest question I have..
.

Well, I own 6 HD sets from 30" to my 100" Projector Screen, so the answer to your question is "yes I have" and up to my 40" LCD (which is a 1080P Toshiba), I stand by my contention. Beyond that, it becomes more and more evident. However, if my 40" was my largest TV, I would probably say, "meh" to either of the HD media formats.

I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree. And, to make my point:

If people can easily tell the difference, how come they can go into Best Buy, see the amazing HD pics and buy their 32" LCD, take it home, plug it into regular SD cable or satellite and miraculously "think" they are watching HD? A survey posted earlier this year showed some unbelievable percentage of people in that category- and that is SD TV, which anamorphic DVD is far, far superior to.

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
larrimore is offline  
post #202 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
larrimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Let's not derail this thread and turn it into the XDE versus Blu-ray debate. Or even a HD versus SD debate. The thread is the XDE-500 OWNERS thread.

I'm starting to see "smackdown" posters from other forums drift into this thread trying to turn the discussion into a format debate. Curious BR promoters who have an agenda. Again this is an XDE owners thread - not a thread to promote high definition. There are other forums and threads on this site designed for that type of discussion.

Agreed.

Although I will say it has been much more civil than if it had taken place in the BD forums.

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
larrimore is offline  
post #203 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nextoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Agreed.

Although I will say it has been much more civil than if it had taken place in the BD forums.

Agreed as well..

I own a BR player too. This is not the thread to discuss its merits. Or why I purchased it. That it is HD - yada yada yada.

This is the XDE-500 owners thread. I like the DVD catalog. I should not have to debate this.

As an example, I own a Yamaha A/V receiver. It has a really great thread on AVS - very helpful. The last thing I would want to see in that forum is a bunch of Onkyo (as an example only) head cases crashing the forum trying to promote Onkyo. It doesn't happen there. Hopefully it won't happen here.
nextoo is offline  
post #204 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 12:59 PM
Senior Member
 
N8YWF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDoug View Post

The other market is for guys like me who have 2000 DVDs and want the best possible picture tweaked out of those, and have no intention of spending $50K to replace them with BluRay. I think that might be a bigger market than the first one. I don't give a rat's ass if the tweaked DVD PQ isn't quite up to HD standards, but I do want the best PQ possible. So I say good for you Toshiba, keep those tweaks coming.

Amen brother. After spending tons of money over the past 10 years replacing everything I had on VHS and then some. I'm not going to spend $40+ Each to replace them. Also most of the old movies won't ever be put on BR so a old classics lover will be SOL. But most of the vomit that hollywood is making now will be released on BR.

With the economy the way it is now. Most working class people are happy with DVD and are more worried about keeping a roof over their heads, feeding their family and having gas in their car. They see BR as a luxery that only rich people with disposable incomes can afford.
N8YWF is offline  
post #205 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Let's not derail this thread and turn it into the XDE versus Blu-ray debate. Or even a HD versus SD debate. The thread is the XDE-500 OWNERS thread.

I'm starting to see "smackdown" posters from other forums drift into this thread trying to turn the discussion into a format debate. Curious BR promoters who have an agenda. Again this is an XDE owners thread - not a thread to promote high definition. There are other forums and threads on this site designed for that type of discussion.

I did not bring up the topic (HDM vs XDE) nor the talking points. Larrimore did. I was replying to it (go back and read this thread again). If you want to be upset with somebody for derailing this thread look again. If you are calling me out as a Blu-Ray promoter that has an agenda bring it up with the moderators. I strongly suggest you look at my posting history at AVS before you report me to the mods though...

As for the XDE, based on all that I have read on various forums I have recommended it to a close friend who was leaning towards an Oppo player. I have no agenda. If somebody is looking for a solid upconverting player and has $150-200 it looks like a short list between the Oppo and the XDE.
ack_bk is offline  
post #206 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 01:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
theflux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Let's not derail this thread and turn it into the XDE versus Blu-ray debate. Or even a HD versus SD debate. The thread is the XDE-500 OWNERS thread.

Good idea. I suggest the people who keep bringing the topic up heed your advice.
theflux is offline  
post #207 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 02:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Doug G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by emthree View Post

AFAIK, the RCE hack is needed only for XE1/XA2 players and needs to be applied each time an RCE disc is inserted. If XDE hack is permanent, it most likely doesn't require an extra hack for some (RCE coded) discs. So, no, you haven't screwed up your system. Your player should remain region free for all discs (if you pressed 9):-)

I had read that while it was possible to play RCE discs after going region-free, it either required some kind of user intervention (remote codes) or sometimes playing another non-RCE disc from the same region for a small time before playing the RCE encoded disc. I don't want to have to do either of these since I don't currently own any non-R1 discs. I found several lists of players abilities to deal with RCE discs after being made region-free and in all cases every Toshiba player was listed as "FAILED, see Note" and the note had a different sequence for each model. And even after performing this sequence the menus and special features were inaccessible, it really just got you to title 1, chapter 1 to watch the feature presentation. So, while I have read some players out there handle these discs no problem, it would seem Toshibas history isn't so good in this area.

I realize the player will remain region free for now, but what I had hoped was that in the code sequence above the first string of digits was the code to get into the service region mode, and the "9" was the code that represented "All regions" (which is different than "0" which means "no region" and is only put on the media.) If the player won't handle RCE discs without my intervention than I plan to repeat the sequence but press "1" (for region 1) in place of "9" to see if I can revert it back to region 1 mode. I didn't realize I was risking losing any functionality by going region-free, or I would never have done it. I can deal with the few non-anamorphic DVDs I have instead of replacing them with out of region anamorphic transfers like I had planned if the price is a serious inconvenience to my region 1 usage on RCE titles. Besides, there's no way the wife will put up with that trying to start a video for the kids!

Gonna plop in a SW disc tonight (which supposedly has RCE) and see what happens. Will report back with an update later.
Doug G is offline  
post #208 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 02:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
reincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I did not bring up the topic (HDM vs XDE) nor the talking points. Larrimore did. I was replying to it (go back and read this thread again). If you want to be upset with somebody for derailing this thread look again. If you are calling me out as a Blu-Ray promoter that has an agenda bring it up with the moderators. I strongly suggest you look at my posting history at AVS before you report me to the mods though...

As for the XDE, based on all that I have read on various forums I have recommended it to a close friend who was leaning towards an Oppo player. I have no agenda. If somebody is looking for a solid upconverting player and has $150-200 it looks like a short list between the Oppo and the XDE.

If you are worried about your reputation and want to continue to post here then why not purchase a 500 player? As it is I think very little of your posts. Go read the Amazon reviews from owners if you need more inspiration. Its very difficult lately to get the truth out at AVS lately without competing interests interfering. Times are tough in many ways.

I own the Oppo 981 and the Toshiba Xa2 and the PS3. The only reason to buy the more expensive Oppo is for Dvd-audio playback. The PS3 is a better SACD player even though the high-end press refuses to review its stellar SACD playback.

Updated SD playback olympic rankings from personal experience:
Toshiba XDE-500 - gold and silver - (any fool can see the improvement with a good setup)
Toshiba XA2 - bronze (and for being the progenitor )
Sony PS3 - pewter (for now - as Sony has their cell processors largely sitting at idle))
Oppo 981 - wood (even if it did score perfect in Secrets traditional synthesized tests. Rather our trained eyes are the better tool.)
reincarnate is offline  
post #209 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

If you are worried about your reputation and want to continue to post here then why not purchase a 500 player? As it is I think very little of your posts. Go read the Amazon reviews from owners if you need more inspiration. Its very difficult lately to get the truth out at AVS lately without competing interests interfering. Times are tough in many ways.

Now I own the Oppo 981 and the Toshiba Xa2 and the PS3. The only reason to buty the more expensive Oppo is for Dvd-audio playback. The PS3 is a better SACD player even though the high-end press refuses to review it.

New SD playback olympic rankings from personal experience:
Toshiba XDE-500 - gold and silver - (any fool can see the improvement with a good setup)
Toshiba XA2 - bronze (and for being the progenitor Sony has their cell processors largely sitting at idle)
Sony PS3 - pewter (for now)
Oppo 981 - wood (even if it did score perfect in Secrets traditional synthesized tests. Rather our trained eyes are the better tool.)

I spent a full day with an Oppo 983 on an Epson 1080p UB and a Stewart Firehawk screen and walked away very impressed with the player but not with the price. We (another AV enthusiast) compared:
Sony Progressive Scan DVD player (your standard $59 Costco model) vs Oppo 983
PS3 (upscaled DVD) vs Oppo 983
PS3 (Blu-Ray) vs Oppo 983

The Oppo (by far) was the clear winner in all comparisons we did with DVD media. I always thought the PS3 was a good upscaler (I would compare it to the upscaling on my A2 HD DVD player) but the Oppo trounced it. Especially with blacks and jaggies. Likewise the PS3 with Blu-Ray trounced the Oppo. My buddy kept the Oppo and I could not blame him. I debated buying one and decided $399 was too much to spend on a DVD player at this point in time. Especially when Oppo is developing a BD player which I hope will have similar upscaling capability.

However, the XDE is half the price of the Oppo. It is quite tempting if it is as good or better than the Reon (which I have heard is close to the Oppo 983) as many of you guys claim. As I mentioned I have a good friend that was about to pull the trigger on an Oppo 980 based on my recommendation. I spoke with him about the XDE and I am pretty sure he is leaning in that direction now as a local Circuit City has them in stock and he can always take it back. So I should get some hands on with an XDE very soon. If it is even close to the Oppo 983 I suspect I will be picking one up as soon as Best Buy gets them in (I have a 12% off coupon). But I am still torn as I am moving away from DVD and mostly watching HD content now (Dish network, BD, HD DVD, downloads).

To those that own the XDE, how did you calibrate it? I calibrate all sources using DVE (I own the DVD, BD, and HD DVD version) along with another DVD of test tools courtesy of AVS.

Did you calibrate with the sharpness, color, or contrast on or off? I assumed that you would turn them on and then calibrate.
ack_bk is offline  
post #210 of 1830 Old 08-27-2008, 03:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smithb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,365
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Personally, I'm still leaning to the Oppo 983. I think the XDE-500 might be a good additional player for someone but for me I don't think it can be my primary solution.

- I have too much 4:3 content I don't want stretched.
- I need video options for brightness, contrast, sharpness, color and tint in the player to work with my digital input of my projector
- Based on what the XDE is doing I'm not sure that all movies will be improved with it's added features. It might be somewhat hit or miss.
- I have a 720p projector that doesn't appear to maximize it capabilities.
- Oppo players have gone through multiple generations and are feature rich in a variety of ways, not just PQ.
- Oppo has been well received and well respected in this area for a while providing a better comfort level.
- The Oppo is costly but I want a player that handles all my SD needs going forward and then I will get a player to specifically handle my BR needs.

I'm only posting for those interested in the XDE from a PQ perspective that may be forgetting about all the other considerations they need in a player. I'm not knocking the XDE in anyway it has some interesting capabilities. It will also be interesting to see what the talk is on this player a year from now and what the next generation player from Toshiba will be able to do.
smithb is offline  
Reply DVD Players (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off