Onkyo DV-SP506 1080p w/DSD & 480i via HDMI - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 88 Old 11-07-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Am I reading this wrong, or is it true that when converting DSD to PCM, this new Onkyo can actually output two-channel SACD at 176.4KHz and multi-channel SACD at 96KHz, via HDMI, Optical, and Coaxial digital outputs? . . . It sounds too good to be true.

I think it is too good to be true. The S/PDIF interface (coaxial or optical) cannot carry multichannel PCM; it has enough bandwidth for only two-channel. (It was designed for CD players, after all.) HDMI is not so limited: any version can handle multichannel PCM; 1.2 can handle DSD.

Which part of the manual are you referring to? I found this on p. 52:

Quote:


Linear PCM Out
. . .
Even if Down Sample Off is selected, sources at 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz are not output by the OPTICAL and COAXIAL outputs.

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post #32 of 88 Old 11-08-2008, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

I think it is too good to be true. The S/PDIF interface (coaxial or optical) cannot carry multichannel PCM; it has enough bandwidth for only two-channel. (It was designed for CD players, after all.) HDMI is not so limited: any version can handle multichannel PCM; 1.2 can handle DSD.

Which part of the manual are you referring to? I found this on p. 52:

This can be switched between DSD and PCM. The manual makes this particular sinario come across as though SACD can be output as high-resolution PCM via all the digital outputs. If anyone has this player, it would be an interesting thing for you to test it. Also, the SPDIF coaxial and optical outputs can transmit 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams. The way this particular SACD-as-PCM feature was worded, I thought this player was a special exception to the rule. If you have one, please check this out! If I'm wrong afterall, unlike other players that output DSD as PCM via HDMI, this player can output it at higher sampling rates than 88.2 KHz, making DSD-to-PCM conversion less noticeable.
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post #33 of 88 Old 11-08-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

This can be switched between DSD and PCM. The manual makes this particular sinario come across as though SACD can be output as high-resolution PCM via all the digital outputs. If anyone has this player, it would be an interesting thing for you to test it. Also, the SPDIF coaxial and optical outputs can transmit 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams. The way this particular SACD-as-PCM feature was worded, I thought this player was a special exception to the rule. If you have one, please check this out! If I'm wrong afterall, unlike other players that output DSD as PCM via HDMI, this player can output it at higher sampling rates than 88.2 KHz, making DSD-to-PCM conversion less noticeable.


It is fairly clear about this, PCM output, down sampling on then you get PCM over the SPDIF, it has to reduce the bandwidth to deal with that old connector.
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post #34 of 88 Old 11-09-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

The manual makes this particular sinario come across as though SACD can be output as high-resolution PCM via all the digital outputs.

This is not possible for any digital out but HDMI without downlsampling.
Again, to which part of the manual are you referring? Page, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Also, the SPDIF coaxial and optical outputs can transmit 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams.

Irrelevant. DD and DTS have nothing to do with SACD or PCM; they are lossy compressed formats, most suitable for DVD soundtracks, not music.

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Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

The way this particular SACD-as-PCM feature was worded . . .

Again, where?
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post #35 of 88 Old 11-10-2008, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

This is not possible for any digital out but HDMI without downlsampling.
Again, to which part of the manual are you referring? Page, please.


Irrelevant. DD and DTS have nothing to do with SACD or PCM; they are lossy compressed formats, most suitable for DVD soundtracks, not music.


Again, where?

If you look further up this thread, I described my disability in detail. I don't use a physical mouse. When I use Acrobat Reader, I perform text searches within documents. It is somewhat difficult for me to determine what page I'm on.
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post #36 of 88 Old 11-11-2008, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

If you look further up this thread, I described my disability in detail. I don't use a physical mouse. When I use Acrobat Reader, I perform text searches within documents. It is somewhat difficult for me to determine what page I'm on.

I saw that. However, it has no bearing on the fact that, if you claim something, you should support it, including some kind of location info. Without a citation, it's just gossip, and cannot be validated or otherwise.

What's a mouse got to do with it? Acrobat pagination is certainly independet of input device. Even if you can't make out the page number in Reader's interface, it is included on each page. It's just text. Scroll and zoom? Do you have a screen reader? (Is one is now built into XP? A magnifier is.)

Why so defensive? I was not persecuting you, but trying to help. Sorry I put you out.
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post #37 of 88 Old 11-13-2008, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

I saw that. However, it has no bearing on the fact that, if you claim something, you should support it, including some kind of location info. Without a citation, it's just gossip, and cannot be validated or otherwise.

What's a mouse got to do with it? Acrobat pagination is certainly independet of input device. Even if you can't make out the page number in Reader's interface, it is included on each page. It's just text. Scroll and zoom? Do you have a screen reader? (Is one is now built into XP? A magnifier is.)

Why so defensive? I was not persecuting you, but trying to help. Sorry I put you out.

It's just a little difficult for me to determine exact page numbers. I believe you could find everything about SACD as PCM in sections regarding the audio setup and HDMI audio output.
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post #38 of 88 Old 11-14-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

It's just a little difficult for me to determine exact page numbers. I believe you could find everything about SACD as PCM in sections regarding the audio setup and HDMI audio output.

Here we go again: I found it (and provided citations), but you claimed otherwise. However, I can't find what you did. (This is getting old.)
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post #39 of 88 Old 12-23-2008, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that these players are easily available, has anybody got any questions, good comments, bad comments, or anything they would like to say about this player?
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post #40 of 88 Old 01-23-2009, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Vanns is selling these in black and silver for $199. For that price, it's a huge deal considering it uses the Burr-Brown PCM1796, can play true DSD via analog and HDMI, and includes Dolby ProLogic for 2Ch. movies. Also, the $99 Pioneer Elite DV-48AV has been sold out, and the $359 Pioneer Elite DV-58AV will probibly sell out soon. Your only other option would be the Pioneer Elite DV-49AV for $179. Does anyone own this player? I am contemplating between the Onkyo and the Pioneer Elite DV-49AV as a budget universal player for my bedroom/computer room. If anyone succeeds in making the Onkyo multi-region, I would definitely go for it because of its DSD output via analog and HDMI.
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post #41 of 88 Old 01-27-2009, 06:18 AM
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Yes, I was wondering if these could be made region free. Also, does anyone have one of these? I'm considering picking it up to use as a region free dvd player along with the DVD-A and SACD capabilities. Thanks!
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post #42 of 88 Old 01-27-2009, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamirobri View Post

Yes, I was wondering if these could be made region free. Also, does anyone have one of these? I'm considering picking it up to use as a region free dvd player along with the DVD-A and SACD capabilities. Thanks!

The instructions found at http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks/onkyo-dv-sp504e/7983 are a possibility. I don't own this player. Therefore, I never tried it.
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post #43 of 88 Old 01-28-2009, 09:18 PM
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I'm debating on trying this player out. I may get it from Amazon, so that if I can not get it to play DVDs from all regions, then I can opt to return it. I just need to wait for the cheapest price I can find since I just picked up a new Onkyo HD-805 (HD-DVD) that should be arriving soon.
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post #44 of 88 Old 02-26-2009, 03:22 PM
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I just bought this player last week for playing dvd audio discs and sacd's. I can confirm that it will pass DSD (via HDMI) to my onkyo 905. The DSD shows up with an fs of 44.1khz.

The player will also pass PCM via HDMI from DVD audio discs. However, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to pause dvd audio discs. The player keeps saying the feature is not currently available... Do all DVD audio players restrict pausing? Should my 506 let me pause a DVD audio disc?

Premise, a FREE home automation program. Open-source Z-Wave Premise Module found here.
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post #45 of 88 Old 03-14-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

I just bought this player last week for playing dvd audio discs and sacd's. I can confirm that it will pass DSD (via HDMI) to my onkyo 905. The DSD shows up with an fs of 44.1khz.

The player will also pass PCM via HDMI from DVD audio discs. However, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to pause dvd audio discs. The player keeps saying the feature is not currently available... Do all DVD audio players restrict pausing? Should my 506 let me pause a DVD audio disc?


Yes, that is very weird.
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post #46 of 88 Old 04-03-2009, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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This would have to be the player of choice if you are seeking pure DSD via analog and HDMI. After reading the 506's manual, I don't think this player is based on the Pioneer platform because its setup navigation is totally different. Does anyone know how to check the 506's firmware? Also, for those of you living in NTSC land, has anyone tried non-region encoded Pal DVDs in it? If so, how's its Pal-to-NTSC conversion? Any artifacts? Does anyone have the service manual to the 506? Has anyone been inside it yet? Does it use ESS Vibrato, LSI Ziva 5, MediaTek MT1389, Sunplus, or Zoran Vaddis as its MPEG decoder? What kind of deinterlacing/upscaling solution does it use? I wish it has more video adjustments besides sharpness, brightness, and black level, such as contrast, gamma, tint, and croma level. Who knows. Maybe an amateur firmware developer will provide such features for us.
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post #47 of 88 Old 05-10-2009, 11:37 PM
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Has anyone seen a review for this player anywhere online?

I can't seem to find one and I'm very interested in how this unit competes with the likes of the Denon DVD-3930CI.
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post #48 of 88 Old 05-11-2009, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

Has anyone seen a review for this player anywhere online?

I can't seem to find one and I'm very interested in how this unit competes with the likes of the Denon DVD-3930CI.

If you immediatly plan on SACD playback via HDMI 1.2A, the DVD3930CI is definitly overkill! However, it's fine if you strictly plan on analog use. Although the Onkyo would probibly make a nice bridge player if you plan on SACD playback via HDMI, yet you need DSD via analog for a year or so. However, if you can, try to get yourself a Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. They are discontinued and there are no plans on replacing them with a current version. So they might be hard to find, but they have HDMI 1.2A and better analog sections than the Onkyo, as well as more video adjustment options.
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post #49 of 88 Old 05-11-2009, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

If you immediatly plan on SACD playback via HDMI 1.2A, the DVD3930CI is definitly overkill! However, it's fine if you strictly plan on analog use. Although the Onkyo would probibly make a nice bridge player if you plan on SACD playback via HDMI, yet you need DSD via analog for a year or so. However, if you can, try to get yourself a Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. They are discontinued and there are no plans on replacing them with a current version. So they might be hard to find, but they have HDMI 1.2A and better analog sections than the Onkyo, as well as more video adjustment options.

Not to mention that the DVD3930CI is an HDMI 1.1 player that will not pass DSD or even DSD/LPCM, great analog output section if you don't need or want DSP processing on the audio (the Audyssey implementation of DSP is the first one that really is worth it, all the earlier ones tend to do more harm than good based on my experience).

If your processor supports DSD over HDMI and has all the scaling/deinterlacing etc. adjustments then the 506 is just right for you (in other words you have one of the 876/906 etx. REON equipped Onkyo or Integra receivers or processors). It makes all the bells and whistles beyond 480i (surprising how many DVD players mess this up by not passing it) over HDMI and MCH DSD output superfluous.
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post #50 of 88 Old 05-12-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

Not to mention that the DVD3930CI is an HDMI 1.1 player that will not pass DSD or even DSD/LPCM, great analog output section if you don't need or want DSP processing on the audio...

All of the above are true. But the Denon 3930CI does pass DSD via its Denon Link 3rd Edition output (to other compatible Denon equipment). And, compared to generic HDMI 1.2a (or greater), Denon Link 3rd Edition provides superior jitter rejection (if that matters).

AJ
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post #51 of 88 Old 05-14-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

All of the above are true. But the Denon 3930CI does pass DSD via its Denon Link 3rd Edition output (to other compatible Denon equipment). And, compared to generic HDMI 1.2a (or greater), Denon Link 3rd Edition provides superior jitter rejection (if that matters).

AJ


No more dead end digital audio links. Been there, done that with iLink, besides the Denon receivers represent poor value for the money (I am really cheap, there I said it), along with Yamaha and Pioneer (unless you want a green receiver with mediocre sound quality, those ICE class D amps are really efficient, but that is their only real redeeming quality). The 875 is really good now that it is on its 7th firmware revision and I tore the back off of the stereo cabinet for better cooling.

After trying MLP over HDMI with the Yamaha 1800 with my newly acquired TX-SR875 (very cheap at $649 delivered, last years model) I am blown away by the audio quality over HDMI versus the DVD player's analog outputs (the $98 Yamaha mentioned earlier in this thread). The preamp analog section, Audyssey MultEQ and PCM-1796 DACs really work very well indeed. The excellent power amp section doesn't hurt either (although it and the Reon video chip throw off some heat, which means it ain't the most efficient receiver in the world).

Now if only I had more than 4 DVD-Audio disks (several hundred SACDs) and if more than one of them were worth owning. From this experience I think jitter as a problem is highly over rated.

In other words the 506 at the price it sells for is a real bargain for SACD fans (along with the 5 or 6 DVD-Audio fans out there ) with a good receiver or controller.
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post #52 of 88 Old 05-18-2009, 01:38 PM
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What deinterlacer/scaler does the DV-SP506 use? There is no mention of it in the specifications on the Onkyo website.
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post #53 of 88 Old 05-18-2009, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

What deinterlacer/scaler does the DV-SP506 use? There is no mention of it in the specifications on the Onkyo website.

The player is mainly an HDMI transport.

My guess is that it is mediocre at this stuff but good enough given the price point. The real benefit is it will output 480i to your TV or receiver if it has good scaler/deinterlacer capabilities (so the DVD player is a video transport only).

Ditto for DSD or MLP output, it puts itself in 1080i mode automatically so that you can pass 5.1 audio to the receiver in digital form.

If you look at the Onkyo receivers starting with the 875 and up that have the Reon chip and the video capabilities of them you will understand why it was designed that way for video (especially if you look at the 876/906 capabilities, they are state of the art). If you look at the Audyssey implementation, the preamp and amp sections and the PCM-1796 chipset on these receivers you will understand the audio transport design, they are state of the art for audio as well.

It has the bare bones features you expect from a decent DVD player but they are not state of the art (good audio DACs though but the Pioneer probably has a better output section to go with the PCM-1796 DACs), just the transport behavior is state of the art. It will also neatly convert DSD to 174.4/24 LPCM if you happen to have an HDMI 1.1 receiver, that is pretty cool as well.
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post #54 of 88 Old 05-19-2009, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I always had a feeling the Onkyo 506 uses one of the many encarnations of the MediaTek MT1389 as its system-on-chip AV decoder, but due to the lack of video adjustments compared to other players, I'm not so sure of that, nor do I have an idea as to what it uses. It would be helpful if someone can look at a service manual, or has the nerve to unscrew the screws, take off the cover, get a good look inside, and tell us their findings.
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post #55 of 88 Old 05-20-2009, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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After reading the owner's manuals to 2006 non-Pioneer-based Onkyo players and changers, I've noticed their user interfaces are very similar. If you have a 506, see if this makes it multi-regional. With the tray open, press 99999 on the remote, watch the TV screen and front pannel, and close the tray. The last 9 means all regions. If that doesn't work, then try 99990. If that doesn't work, there is a procedure at http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks/onkyo-dv-sp504e/7983 which might require a remote for an older Onkyo player. Please let us know your results!
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post #56 of 88 Old 05-28-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I found out how to make this player multi-region at http://www.avforums.com/forums/9579332-post6.html! I wonder if it works on US models. If Hakan doesn't come up with a modded firmware for the Pioneer Elite DV-58AV, and the US model DV-SP506 can be made multi-region, I think I just might grab one of these babies! This is SD perfection: HDMI 1.2 with the ability to pass DSD natively, as well as 176.4 KHz PCM, DSD via analog, multi-regional, and switchable 0-IRE/7.5-IRE black level video output for use on my CRT ... all without requiring a firmware upgrade! Also, with Pioneer forming a joint venture with Sharp and more than likely no longer manufacturing universal players, it might not be a bad idea to start looking elsewhere. If the DV-58AV is actually discontinued, the Onkyo DV-SP506 would then have to be my first choice. Oppo's new BD player has everything I need for SD, except multi-region and switchable black level. Oppo's SD players don't have good analog sections nor switchable black level. Unlike Pioneer, Onkyo doesn't seem to be publicly admitting any troubles due to the current economic conditions. Therefore, I trust that the 506 will be around for a long while. So ... Long-live the Onkyo DV-SP506 and this thread here at AVS!
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post #57 of 88 Old 06-05-2009, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpjnevada View Post

The silver is $172 shipped from Amazon right now: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DV-SP506...4239829&sr=8-2

I just picked one up for the audio capabilities, not too interested with the video portion.

Should be a nice comparison with my Pioneer AV-49AV.

Can you give us a video comparison between the 506 and 49AV? Also, do you have Pal DVDs? If so, can you also give us a Pal-to-NTSC conversion comparison between the 506 and 49AV? Thanks!
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post #58 of 88 Old 06-05-2009, 04:08 PM
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Would you mind popping off the hood and see what chips it is using? Or if you have the HQV DVD Benchmark, would you mind running it to test it's upconverting prowess?
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post #59 of 88 Old 06-05-2009, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpjnevada View Post

I am probably the very last guy you would want to go to for comparison info

I am THE Joe-Six-Pack of the AV-Phile world

I am not a big video guy and have no PAL media, sorry. I bought this player as a bridge for the high quality BB analog audio (now) and future replacement of my Onkyo SR304 AVR. which has no HDMI. Also, the Pioneer and Onkyo's will be good backups for each other if a problem crops up.

The info you provided here, helped me alot with my decision to buy one. Thanks a ton!

Actually, I own a Pioneer Elite DV-58AV, probibly one of the best analog players of today. However, I love the added video features you get when installing the enhanced firmware found at pioneerfaq.info, but if Hakan doesn't release a Smash the Mac firmware for it, I am considering keeping the DV-58AV as an audio player and considering either the DV-49AV or Onkyo DV-SP506 as a movie player. Unless the video quality of the 506 is better, I am leaning more towards the DV-49AV and installing Hakan's firmware on it. Because of my sight condition, Hakan's disabling of prohibited user operations (PUOs) during movie playback would be helpful. So at this point, the only way I'd get a 506 is if the video quality is exceptionally better than the 49AV.
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post #60 of 88 Old 06-05-2009, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpjnevada View Post

Yeah, I wish I could afford a 58. The 49's are drying up fast, eBay has only 3 of them, I believe I got one of the very last new ones from Buy.com and very glad i jumped on it. I hate to risk jamming Hakan's firmware into it right now being that I've only owned it for a couple of days. Does the Hakan offer any advantage on the audio side? I know the video side is enhanced.

I will obviously be doing a personal video comparison and report back my thoughts. I have a Panasonic 50" 1080i Plasma as a display and to me, most everything looks good on it, SD as well as HD. The 49 looks as good or better than my Oppo 970 with video.

I also have a re-certified Samsung Bluray player (BD-P1400) that actually works very well considering I only paid $100 for it. It's only flaw for me is the lack of SACD/DVD-A. But it has Dolby True-HD and DTS-MA as well as analog audio and a surprisingly good amount of other features. Analog audio out with no DVD-A or SACD is a shame with that player.

I just created a special new thread about HDMI 1.2A players so the threads for individual players can stay more on topic.
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