Is Blu-Ray a load of crap? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 07-15-2010, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post

BR isn't a load of crap, but that doesn't mean it's not rapidly becoming an anachronism. It's at best a stop-gap until streaming picks up speed; for now, it lies between DVD and HD streaming but fails to offer the low cost hardware and software and easy reproducibility of the former while failing to offer the disc-free, hassle-free convenience (with any luck) of the latter.

Luckily none of this stuff is essential. If you don't have a BR and think you may as well just hold off until the next format -- or until the absence of a physical format becomes the norm -- great. I use my BR player mostly to stream Netflix and YouTube anyway at this point, not to play discs.

The infrastructure required to support Blu-Ray (20+mbps) 1080p video in millions of households throughout the nation does not exist and will not exit any time in the foreseeable future. We are rapidly approaching a "data crisis" as our network infrastructuring is already running at near full-capacity. Now imagine 100 million homes on a Friday night streaming this 20+ mbps video.
If this doesn't bother you then, sure... go ahead and think of Blu-Ray as a stop-gap. A FIFTEEN year stop-gap, that is.
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post #32 of 43 Old 07-16-2010, 10:26 AM
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It is a tough decision worth some thought to take the plunge into Blu-Ray.

Upconverting and Blu-Ray players are now both under $100, a good brand name SD player can be had for $50, would you spend another $50 more for a Blu-Ray ? The only advantage with a Blu-Ray player in terms of compatibility other the PQ is that you can buy or rent Blu-Ray media that otherwise would not play back on SD players. What really turns me off with Blu-Ray is the constant upgrading of firmware via ethernet or CD or for certain movie titles is utterly ridiculously.

I read that Blu-Ray market penetration for 2009-2010 is not doing too well and Sony and other manufacturers are resorting back to lowering prices on the players so consumer will buy the Blu-Ray media in which Sony is an owner of movie studios.

I guess the real battle wasn't HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray, it is more SD DVD vs Blu-Ray !

After some thought and research, I will just get a 1080p upconverting player since my other players will be able to play back my existing DVD collection without having to buy 2 other Blu-Ray player.

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post #33 of 43 Old 07-16-2010, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SaxCatz View Post

The infrastructure required to support Blu-Ray (20+mbps) 1080p video in millions of households throughout the nation does not exist and will not exit any time in the foreseeable future. We are rapidly approaching a "data crisis" as our network infrastructuring is already running at near full-capacity. Now imagine 100 million homes on a Friday night streaming this 20+ mbps video.
If this doesn't bother you then, sure... go ahead and think of Blu-Ray as a stop-gap. A FIFTEEN year stop-gap, that is.

BR quality is not necessary for streaming, certainly not at this stage. Even the aging infrastructure in the US has proven adequate for entertainment needs so far. Granted this may change as more and more people refuse to waste money on discs. In fact the more people understand the advantages of streaming, the worse all the problems you correctly IMO point out will become.

Since the last post I've used my BR player to stream four films and two episodes of a TV series. I've used it to play... zero discs.

Ultimately discs will be reduced to what they really are -- shiny objects or trinkets. They might be useful for decorating a terrace, for protecting furniture from water stains, or even as substitutes for those gifts etc. that the stereotypic movie explorers use to impress natives etc.
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post #34 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post

BR quality is not necessary for streaming, certainly not at this stage.

You've made some very valid points and I must state that I respect your opinion, I just don't agree.
This is where I think we don't see eye to eye. I am pretty obsessive about video quality. I watch movies on a 120" screen via an Epson PLHC8500UB only because the extra $5K for a JVC DLS-RS25 didn't meet WAF. To me, Blu-Ray quality IS necessary. I do watch alot of DVDs but, even when scaled via the Silicon Optix Reon HQV processor, they always fail to "wow"- they are acceptable (at best) and that is all.
There are many more out there like me (especially here at AVSforum, where I assume I would be in the majority rather than minority) and our numbers are growing. Between "us", those who desire physical media to line their shelves with it (we'll call them "the collectors") and those who distrust the big studios and the additional control over their viewing experience that streaming media allows. Beyond those more eccentric types, most average Joes do desire to own some of their favorite films and they will soon realize that downloading those is not an answer- "purchasing" a film from a site such as Amazon, iTunes, etc is not what it seems. Many of these "purchases" are time limited for how long they can be viewed online and those that can be downloaded to your PC probably have a time frame during which you may do so as well. Futhermore, once you have downloaded the video file to your PC, the obsessive DRM of the digital copies makes it very difficult to back up or migrate to a new PC. How often do most of you purchase a new PC? 2 or 3 years? How would you like to have to either rebuy you entire movie collection or spend hours upon hours laboriously transferring DRM heavy files just to get them to be playable again? And as far as backing up to disc for the few DRM schemes that can or may allow you to do so- then you STILL have the disc in the loop... at an EXTRA expense of time and materials to you no less & and now its on +/-R burnable that doesn't last "forever" like that new pressed disc you could have driven to Target and purchased in the first place.
These things, in addition to the infrastructure problems noted in my prior post, will keep packaged media afloat for a very long time. I have no doubt that streaming will be an important part of the movie- and television-watching experience in the future. Streaming is great for some things- it is my favorite way to catch up on a season of a television and is perfect for seeing that "Rent It" movie that you want to see but doubt you'll ever watch again. Heck... with unlimited streaming services such as Netflix, it is also a great way to preview films you THINK you may want to purchase before you make the plunge. Even with these things in mind, I don't see streaming and digital downloads replacing too many film collections in the next 15-20 years.
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post #35 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 07:03 AM
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One additional point I feel should be made...
There was a post on AVSForum (I believe it was here) at one time that I am too lazy to locate at the moment that made reference (linked to) a pretty credible article that compared the actual cost of manufacturing a disc (DVDs and Blu-Ray) to the cost-per-Gigabye of delivering streaming media to your home (what it actually cost an ISP and content provider in terms of bandwidth and power to run servers, etc.) As I recall, the cost of actually manufacturing the packaged media was less than the actual cost of streaming, however the packaged media "got killed" on transportation. However, if I also recall, with any REPEAT viewing, the packaged media immediately became cheaper only continued to narrow the gap
If anyone else is brave enough to locate this, please be my guest. I'm sure it will help to elucidate this discussion.
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post #36 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 08:18 AM
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I see your points. Clearly if you want the best quality possible and/or you absolutely must have a physical disc around BR is the answer. Even I do own BR discs; I don't want to though.
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post #37 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 09:37 AM
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We much prefer shadow puppets, that’s all the detail we need.

My wife plays the piano (for drama) in the corner of the room, while my kid reads a homemade script he made for “The Shadow Show”.

We made our own version of Avatar that way, for realism I began throwing Blue Smurf Dolls at my wife and kid; they seem to like it in 3D.
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post #38 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

We much prefer shadow puppets, that's all the detail we need.

My wife plays the piano (for drama) in the corner of the room, while my kid reads a homemade script he made for The Shadow Show.

We made our own version of Avatar that way, for realism I began throwing Blue Smurf Dolls at my wife and kid; they seem to like it in 3D.

This is far better entertainment than the majority of programming currently available on basic cable.
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post #39 of 43 Old 07-17-2010, 12:56 PM
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I think I saw that show on PBS. Or maybe it was public access.

Streaming and downloading movies will become viable once it becomes more convenient than discs while delivering everything discs do. Joe Six-Pack would LOVE to rent all movies from the comfort of his recliner. Owning physical media has dwindled in importance (ask your average teenager how many CDs they've bought in the last few years. Yeah, they'll be Joe Six-Pack in the future.)

We're not there, yet and it probably will be about a decade or so.

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post #40 of 43 Old 07-18-2010, 05:24 AM
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I've been considering buying a blu-ray player for the past few months, but I have a 26" 720p HDTV, and I don't really see the point.

I have a vast collection of dvds and I seriously doubt I would at any point change all those titles for blu-ray because it would be stupid expensive for the small amount of extra resolution I would be getting that I probably won't be able to experience anyway. And unless you buy an Oppo, you're most likely limited in terms of video file formats the player will recognize.

So for many of us who aren't videophiles and don't own very large HDTVs and who think the price of a blu-ray disk is more than it's actually worth, a good upconverting dvd player that you can now get for less than $100 is more valuable.

And besides, visually pristine movies that demand blu-ray is a recent phenomenon. Any movie made before the 21st century is going to have pops and clicks and fuzzy things on the screen, nullifying the advantage of blu-ray.
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post #41 of 43 Old 07-18-2010, 07:42 AM
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Well, at some point DVD players will completely go away. The ones left aren't all that impressive anyway (there is a reason most are well under $100.)

Since all Blu-ray players are compatible with DVDs (the specs mandate it), and Blu-ray player prices have dropped like a stone, this is not a big loss. We're moving towards a more capable player.

If your DVD player goes on the fritz, you can pick up a Blu-ray player that will play those DVDs AND play a Blu-ray you may rent (you don't have to buy them) AND many models now stream Netflix and other internet media, something no DVD player ever did. So there are some advantages. Yes, the firmware updates are a little annoying, but IMO that's a minor quibble.

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post #42 of 43 Old 07-20-2010, 08:15 AM
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"I watch movies on a 120" screen via an Epson PLHC8500UB only because the extra $5K for a JVC DLS-RS25 didn't meet WAF. To me, Blu-Ray quality IS necessary. I do watch alot of DVDs but, even when scaled via the Silicon Optix Reon HQV processor, they always fail to "wow"- they are acceptable (at best) and that is all."

In your case, I couldn't imagine watching anything on a screen that size besides blu-ray for the quality of signal you need. I was working in a client's apt and he had a 65" hdtv, and a concert video the tech was using to test his av install, which wasn't blu-ray, looked pixilated and mediocre, and the cable broadcast signal looked just okay.

Basically, anything above 47" 1080p hdtv or so is going to require a fairly pristine signal, hence the need for blu-ray, but as the size of hdtv moves up, I've got to wonder if they've moved beyond a size the quality of the signal can satisfy?
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post #43 of 43 Old 07-20-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougeee View Post

"I watch movies on a 120" screen via an Epson PLHC8500UB only because the extra $5K for a JVC DLS-RS25 didn't meet WAF. To me, Blu-Ray quality IS necessary. I do watch alot of DVDs but, even when scaled via the Silicon Optix Reon HQV processor, they always fail to "wow"- they are acceptable (at best) and that is all."

In your case, I couldn't imagine watching anything on a screen that size besides blu-ray for the quality of signal you need. I was working in a client's apt and he had a 65" hdtv, and a concert video the tech was using to test his av install, which wasn't blu-ray, looked pixilated and mediocre, and the cable broadcast signal looked just okay.

Basically, anything above 47" 1080p hdtv or so is going to require a fairly pristine signal, hence the need for blu-ray, but as the size of hdtv moves up, I've got to wonder if they've moved beyond a size the quality of the signal can satisfy?

Problem is that the size of panels might increase in size, most people's walls don't !

How many time have wanted to upgrade to that larger panel the was only marginally more expensive than the largest panel size your room/wall size can accommodate ?

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