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post #421 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vcrpro3 View Post

I have some confusion about laserdisc audio formats; i have many LD's that are labeled Dolby Surround.. They do not trigger my RF demodulators, only ones that are labeled dolby surround/ac3 do. what is the 'dolby surround' ones format?

"Dolby Surround" refers to the 4:2:4 matrix stereo format developed by Dolby Laboratories, and brought to public attention when it was used on the 35mm optical-stereo prints of Star Wars. Based on the "quad" audio systems of the 1970s (the Tate SQ encoder was originally used), this takes four channels of audio, Left, Right, Center, Surround, & mixes them down into two channels, sometimes denoted L' & R'. Then, at the playback end, a special circuit takes the two channels & separates out four again. Of course this is only an approximate process ; you can't get four discrete channels out of two-channel audio!

The circuit used for "decoding" is termed "Dolby Pro-Logic" in consumer equipment. Of course you can use many other similar decoders for Dolby Surround, & many other similar formats (eg Chace Ultra-Stereo, DTS Stereo) can be handled by a Pro-Logic decoder. In fact, a Pro-Logic decoder will happily use the channel separation of an ordinary stereo recording to create four channels.

So, in this case the "format" is the standard analog or digital stereo track of LD, & the soundtrack is the theatrical "matrix" mix.

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post #422 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sheer Lunacy View Post

So, in this case the "format" is the standard analog or digital stereo track of LD, & the soundtrack is the theatrical "matrix" mix.

To further clarify, the digital tracks on a Laserdisc are 2-channel PCM format.

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post #423 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 12:31 PM
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In the back of my mind, i thought it was that.. but was'nt sure. In the early 1990's, i had a pioneer VSX-9500s AVR with pro-logic, it was 'ok' surround, but overall, i was 'underwhelmed' and went back to quality 2 channel equipment. Until the advent of the true digital surround formats, i stayed away from quality audio for video watching.

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Originally Posted by Sheer Lunacy View Post

"Dolby Surround" refers to the 4:2:4 matrix stereo format developed by Dolby Laboratories, and brought to public attention when it was used on the 35mm optical-stereo prints of Star Wars. Based on the "quad" audio systems of the 1970s (the Tate SQ encoder was originally used), this takes four channels of audio, Left, Right, Center, Surround, & mixes them down into two channels, sometimes denoted L' & R'. Then, at the playback end, a special circuit takes the two channels & separates out four again. Of course this is only an approximate process ; you can't get four discrete channels out of two-channel audio!

The circuit used for "decoding" is termed "Dolby Pro-Logic" in consumer equipment. Of course you can use many other similar decoders for Dolby Surround, & many other similar formats (eg Chace Ultra-Stereo, DTS Stereo) can be handled by a Pro-Logic decoder. In fact, a Pro-Logic decoder will happily use the channel separation of an ordinary stereo recording to create four channels.

So, in this case the "format" is the standard analog or digital stereo track of LD, & the soundtrack is the theatrical "matrix" mix.

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post #424 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 03:07 PM
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You might be surprised to know that some people prefer the matrixed surround. They say it sounds "richer" or "fuller" than the discrete formats. Personally, maybe I'm a low-brow, or just not a golden-ear, but when there's a discrete version available of a multichannel mix, I prefer it, even if it is only 384 kbps AC-3.

On the other hand, I have some discs on which the PCM stereo is a completely different audio mix from the AC-3, instead of being a Dolby Surround version of the multichannel mix (as on most AC-3 movie LDs). In that case there's a real choice to make.

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post #425 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 03:35 PM
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Even though i have had the equipment for a while, a Lexicon LDD-1, Kenwood DEM-999 and a couple of CLD-D704's, i hooked them up and watched a AC-3 soundtrack of 'Die Hard With A Vengence' and it sounded great on my system...too bad that i'm soon getting out of LD and downsizing to blu ray....

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Originally Posted by Sheer Lunacy View Post

You might be surprised to know that some people prefer the matrixed surround. They say it sounds "richer" or "fuller" than the discrete formats. Personally, maybe I'm a low-brow, or just not a golden-ear, but when there's a discrete version available of a multichannel mix, I prefer it, even if it is only 384 kbps AC-3.

On the other hand, I have some discs on which the PCM stereo is a completely different audio mix from the AC-3, instead of being a Dolby Surround version of the multichannel mix (as on most AC-3 movie LDs). In that case there's a real choice to make.

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post #426 of 966 Old 12-16-2011, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vcrpro3 View Post

too bad that i'm soon getting out of LD and downsizing to blu ray....

Say... when would this be happening, and what's going to happen with your gear? Do you have a list of discs?
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post #427 of 966 Old 12-17-2011, 12:29 AM
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As soon as possible due to health, financial and vehicle problems... There are 400+ discs, 8 players, 2 demodulator, and 2 processor decoders. Though getting the stuff to you would be a major issue because i am in Phoenix (Glendale), AZ. PM me and i'll give you my phone number if you want discuss further.......


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Say... when would this be happening, and what's going to happen with your gear? Do you have a list of discs?

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post #428 of 966 Old 12-17-2011, 04:03 PM
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Someone mentioned to me that several of the older Pioneer receivers back in the laserdisc days had on board AC-3 input for decoding the signal. Does anyone know of the model numbers of those receivers and if any of them were Elite receivers? Any help on this would be wonderful.

Thanks,
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post #429 of 966 Old 12-17-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkepneriv View Post

Someone mentioned to me that several of the older Pioneer receivers back in the laserdisc days had on board AC-3 input for decoding the signal. Does anyone know of the model numbers of those receivers and if any of them were Elite receivers? Any help on this would be wonderful.

All the information you could want on the topic is right here at AVSForum.

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post #430 of 966 Old 12-19-2011, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by trailblazer View Post

Thanks. Regarding the LD output. I play an LD at 480i s-video through the AV8003 and output s-video to my Epson projector and the picture is fine. The loss of color occurs when I sent the signal to component or HDMI with or without up conversion through the AV8003, I lose the color. The loss of color does not happen when component 480i is is sent through the AV8003 with no conversion at 480i or up converted to 480p on component or 1080p on HDMI. According to the Marantz AV8003 manual, I should be able to sent a s-video signal, up converted or not, to component or HDMI, which it does albeit in black in white, no color. I hope this makes my signal path clearer to understand. It sounds to me that I need to somehow convert the s-video signal to component which I think would allow me to get color on the LD output on component and HDMI. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm not understanding you. You do or you don't have component out on your LD player? Sorry - I just couldn't pick it up from you last post. If it's a DVD/LD player I would think you would have it. Can you not use it instead of S video?
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post #431 of 966 Old 12-19-2011, 08:42 AM
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The LD player has both s-video and component. LD output only goes through s-video and DVD goes through component. If I display the component signal for LD the picture is B&W, the same with HDMI. While a DVD plays in color on component and HDMI, but in B&W on s-video. Hope this makes it clearer. The issue is why the B&W picture as noted above.
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post #432 of 966 Old 12-19-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by trailblazer View Post

The LD player has both s-video and component. LD output only goes through s-video and DVD goes through component. If I display the component signal for LD the picture is B&W, the same with HDMI. While a DVD plays in color on component and HDMI, but in B&W on s-video. Hope this makes it clearer. The issue is why the B&W picture as noted above.

For LD are you using the green component output (which all you will get is B&W LD from that) or the composite Yellow output? You have to use the yellow one to get color.
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post #433 of 966 Old 12-20-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

For LD are you using the green component output (which all you will get is B&W LD from that) or the composite Yellow output? You have to use the yellow one to get color.

For LD, I am using the s-video out to the AV8003 to the Projector (if I switch the s-video in the AV8003 to component or HDMI, the picture is B&W). While watching a DVD via component from the DVL-909 to the AV8003 (or switched to HDMI) to the projector, no issue. The DVL-909 only sends DVD out via the component and if I switch the output from component to s-video on the AV8003 to the projector, the picture is B&W.

My take on this is the the DVL-909 is the issue because, when you place an LD in the DVL-909, component goes off and the reverse is true with DVD using component. Thus, the color detail is lost with LD through component and DVD through s-video.

I have tried the above scenarios directly to a display and get the same results.
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post #434 of 966 Old 12-20-2011, 01:00 PM
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FYI there is a really cool website called Laserdisc Database at www.lddb.com that pretty much lists every LD ever made. You can sign up with them for free and make wish lists plus people on there sell LDs. It is a very cool and informative site. On the site I have about 60 of my LDs listed and haven't added the last 40 or so I recently bought. Maybe this will help some of you guys out.

Cheers,
Paul

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Pioneer VSX-1019-AH A/V Receiver

Sony ss-ts503 5 speaker system

Pinnacle Digital Sub 100 - 10" sub
65" Mitsubishi Diamond Series Projection TV
LG Bluray player
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post #435 of 966 Old 12-20-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailblazer View Post

For LD, I am using the s-video out to the AV8003 to the Projector (if I switch the s-video in the AV8003 to component or HDMI, the picture is B&W). While watching a DVD via component from the DVL-909 to the AV8003 (or switched to HDMI) to the projector, no issue. The DVL-909 only sends DVD out via the component and if I switch the output from component to s-video on the AV8003 to the projector, the picture is B&W.

My take on this is the the DVL-909 is the issue because, when you place an LD in the DVL-909, component goes off and the reverse is true with DVD using component. Thus, the color detail is lost with LD through component and DVD through s-video.

I have tried the above scenarios directly to a display and get the same results.

You need to get the owners manual for this as the things you are describing for the DVL unit is the way it was designed. You just need to learn how it operates and then make the proper connections.
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post #436 of 966 Old 12-20-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailblazer View Post

For LD, I am using the s-video out to the AV8003 to the Projector (if I switch the s-video in the AV8003 to component or HDMI, the picture is B&W). While watching a DVD via component from the DVL-909 to the AV8003 (or switched to HDMI) to the projector, no issue. The DVL-909 only sends DVD out via the component and if I switch the output from component to s-video on the AV8003 to the projector, the picture is B&W.

My take on this is the the DVL-909 is the issue because, when you place an LD in the DVL-909, component goes off and the reverse is true with DVD using component. Thus, the color detail is lost with LD through component and DVD through s-video.

I have tried the above scenarios directly to a display and get the same results.

If you are only getting B&W with Svideo, I suspect a bad cable or connector. One cable carries the luminance (B&W) and the other the chroma in Svideo.

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post #437 of 966 Old 12-20-2011, 10:13 PM
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I've been an avid collector of laserdisc for over 20 years. My current, and, by far the best player I've used is my current CLD-704.

I have many DTS LDs and have just found an RF demodulator for Dplby Digital.


Being the A/V geek that I am, I've decided to dip my toe in the CED (Selectavision) format. Where a needle actually reads the information. I've been scanning ebay for a few months, and finally found a newly listed SKT400 in good working order.

Is anyone else here into CED? More info can be found here.


http://www.cedmagic.com

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post #438 of 966 Old 12-21-2011, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Is anyone else here into CED?

I bought my first CED player about 10 years ago to play the Star Wars disc I had in my SW collection. There is something about the quality of playback I really like... basically a high-end linear tracking turntable with video. What's not to love?

I still keep a working player and seem to keep finding CED in thrift stores and some private collections. I have a couple hundred at last count?

As with LaserDisc, there are lots of obscure titles that were not released on later formats. CED systems tend to be more problematic than LaserDisc because they have the same issues with loose belts and sticky grease, but they also have the stylus that can wear out just like a record player needle.

Fortunately there seems to be some New Old Stock and some belt kits floating around. I also had better luck maintaining a CED player after tinkering around with a couple dead machines to see how they work.

And... if you ever run out of boiling oil and dead cows, CED players are great for throwing off the wall of your castle at invading armies!
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post #439 of 966 Old 12-21-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

You need to get the owners manual for this as the things you are describing for the DVL unit is the way it was designed. You just need to learn how it operates and then make the proper connections.

Thanks Kurtis.

Looks like the DVL-909 is designed to to go B&W. From the DVL-909 manual for video output, "This lets you select between component and regular output of video signals. If you select component output, the signal from the s-video or video output jack becomes black and white. You cannot switch to component for watching video on LDs. With an LD, the player automatically switches to s-video or video output."
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post #440 of 966 Old 12-21-2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

If you are only getting B&W with Svideo, I suspect a bad cable or connector. One cable carries the luminance (B&W) and the other the chroma in Svideo.

Thanks Glimmie.

The cable is not the issue. Used both s-video and compsite (video) cables. Looks like the DVL-909 is designed to to go B&W. From the DVL-909 manual for video output, "This lets you select between component and regular output of video signals. If you select component output, the signal from the s-video or video output jack becomes black and white. You cannot switch to component for watching video on LDs. With an LD, the player automatically switches to s-video or video output."
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post #441 of 966 Old 12-22-2011, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkepneriv View Post

FYI there is a really cool website called Laserdisc Database at www.lddb.com that pretty much lists every LD ever made. You can sign up with them for free and make wish lists plus people on there sell LDs. It is a very cool and informative site. On the site I have about 60 of my LDs listed and haven't added the last 40 or so I recently bought. Maybe this will help some of you guys out.

Cheers,
Paul

Do they do foriegn titles also? I used to have this LD about a Polish jewish family that survived the German occupation of Poland in WWII by living underground. The neat thing is that the movie was made in Argentina. Don't remember the name as it was in Spanish but I'd love to find it on DVD or perhaps even BR.
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post #442 of 966 Old 12-22-2011, 01:25 PM
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Do they do foriegn titles also? I used to have this LD about a Polish jewish family that survived the German occupation of Poland in WWII by living underground. The neat thing is that the movie was made in Argentina. Don't remember the name as it was in Spanish but I'd love to find it on DVD or perhaps even BR.

LDDb does list foreign releases, but since the site is basically a wiki, it relies on users to submit info about the discs.

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post #443 of 966 Old 12-23-2011, 06:48 PM
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I've been snagging Japanese discs as of late as Christmas presents to myself
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post #444 of 966 Old 12-24-2011, 06:36 AM
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I've been snagging Japanese discs as of late as Christmas presents to myself

Those are nice, but this really isn't a software thread.

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post #445 of 966 Old 12-24-2011, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Those are nice, but this really isn't a software thread.

Pioneer LaserDisc / DVD thread

"A general thread for people to discuss general LaserDisc topics, especially maintenance and repair issues."

I can't see how we could talk about LaserDisc players without talking discs. I'd allow it as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Links to collections are fine, but I'd like to see people trade and sell off-site. If you make a connection, exchange emails and move along.

Otherwise, all LaserDisc topics are fair game in this forum.
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post #446 of 966 Old 12-25-2011, 10:55 PM
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I'll even continue my CED Selectavision story if no one objects.

Christmas day, I show everyone my new player and disc of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I must really be an A/V geek, because I was showing them the near perfect condition of the artwork, and that it played in stereo, with a NEEDLE! They could not have been less interested. It was almost as bad as playing a slideshow of my family vacation.

It even had a small ad for Temple of Doom, coming in the summer of '84.

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post #447 of 966 Old 12-26-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

I've been snagging Japanese discs as of late as Christmas presents to myself

You didn't need to edit your post. I was just pointing out my observations from reading this thread from the beginning. Up to this point, it really hasn't been a "haul" thread.

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post #448 of 966 Old 12-26-2011, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post

I'll even continue my CED Selectavision story if no one objects.

Christmas day, I show everyone my new player and disc of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I must really be an A/V geek, because I was showing them the near perfect condition of the artwork, and that it played in stereo, with a NEEDLE! They could not have been less interested. It was almost as bad as playing a slideshow of my family vacation.

It even had a small ad for Temple of Doom, coming in the summer of '84.

Are there many CED discs that are widescreen/letterboxed?

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post #449 of 966 Old 12-26-2011, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Up to this point, it really hasn't been a "haul" thread.

and I am probably an offender in that regard also...
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post #450 of 966 Old 12-26-2011, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Are there many CED discs that are widescreen/letterboxed?

According the CED Magic website,

http://cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html

"Several CED titles were issued in letterbox format:

Amarcord,
The Long Goodbye
Manhattan
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
King of Hearts

"RCA called this their 'innovative widescreen mastering technique,' and on the back of the caddy provided an explanation for the black bands at the top and bottom of the television screen.

CED was the first video format to feature letterboxing, with the release of Amarcord in January 1984. This was eight months prior to the release of Manhattan on LaserDisc."
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