My 9' wide 2.35:1 screen in action! (Braveheart, TWINE, TS2...) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 45 Old 03-21-2001, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi folks,

most here know me as the technically anal freak that does measurements, graphs and screenshots all the time, but as a surprise i also watch movies! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I still haven't gotten time enough to finish a website of my HT. And the theater isn't 100% ready anyway, still missing the final hands on here and there. The perfectionist in me is hesitating to show any work in progress kind of stuff, so bear with me.

But a few days ago, i decided it would be ok to show some pictures of my rig in action, because you can't see any mess in the room with the lights out. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I wasn't sure if the pictures would come close to demonstrate what my screen looks like in action, but i am very pleasantly surprised. I knew my semi-professional digicam Canon EOS-D30 is a sensational beast, but i didn't expect it to deliver satisfying results in a task as difficult as screenshots.

I took the pictures at the standard 2160x1440 resolution. D30 on a tripod, 15 feet from the screen, just behind the first seating row. Aperture 3.5, shutter time mostly 1 second. Took the pictures into Photoshop and scaled them down to a quarter of their size: 1080x720. I didn't change the pics in any other way, no color-correction, no brighness change, nothing.

My 4-way custom maskable screen was put in its 'scope' config, yielding a 9' wide totally masked 2.35:1 picture. Image is projected with an 8" CRT (NEC XG110LC) quadrupled.

The pictures show pretty much what i am seeing here. They are a bit soft, on screen there is a fair bit more detail. I chose two excellent transfers (Braveheart and TWINE) that have practically no edge-enhancement which yields a smooth filmlike quality.

The color balance on all pictures is very good, but the color saturation on the TWINE pictures is a tad high, i probably set my Canon's saturation parameter to 'high' instead of 'normal'. Also, color temperature might vary with the display you use to read this. On my referenece monitor its almost dead on.

To optimally view the pictures, check that your black level is set properly on your monitor. The black mask surround the pictures is totally black. Increase your brightness (black level) until the black mask stops looking ink black and gets slightly grayish. Back down a little again, so that its just barely black again. You should be able to clearly see the reflective tops of my front 3 speakers in the pictures.

I removed all of the pictures i posted here before. You can see them and lots of others on my screenshots page:

http://home.t-online.de/home/bjoern....en/Page_01.htm

.
.
.

Continued...


[This message has been edited by Bjoern Roy (edited 09-23-2001).]

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 45 Old 03-21-2001, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
.
.
.


I don't use any classical scalers. Ever since i have gotten into HTPCs, they don't seem to fit my needs any more. For film based DVDs, a HTPC is second to none, IMHO. Deinterlacing for video based DVDs or TV is getting acceptable with bTV and the opensource project dTV, too. Since my usage is 90% film based DVDs, 5% video based DVDs (South Park...) and maybe 5% TV (Formula 1...). I figured, keeping thousands of dollars worth of scalers is nonsense if they collect dust anyway, since the HTPC excels with movies (thus 90%). I am still on a Geforce2 based HTPC, but have been heavily experimenting with a Radeon/Ravisent setup for a long time now. It has a LOT of potential and is almost ready for prime-time. Actually, now that custom res./YXY is working, the Geforce is out any day now!

UPDATE:
I figured, lets get over my tidiness and put up some HT pics already http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif So i cleaned up the mess a bit and made a panorama. Its a little confusing, because my room has a trapezoid shape with a little asymmetry in the back. So i draw a sketch of how the room looks and where the camera was located (turquoise).

Here is the layout of my HT:
http://www.peopleindustry.de/BjoernR...T02_sketch.jpg

Here is the panorama:
http://www.peopleindustry.de/BjoernR...n/HT/HT02s.jpg
  • 4 seats in the front row, 3 in the second row (1 feet elevated) standard setup, more seats if needed.
  • The trapezoid at the ceiling is the projector hushbox with ventilation routed through 4" dropped ceiling.
  • Floor, ceiling and walls covered with heavy black carpet, thus little to no backscattered light from the room to the screen, giving incredible contrast even in very bright scenes.
  • Spot lights directly pointed at each of the seats, yielding almost no ambient light to the screen, even if these lights are on. We usually watch movies in complete darkness, of course. But when we have snacks while watching sports etc., we have these spotslights on and the picture is not washed out at all, like it usually is with lights on. Look at the picture, thats how good the contrast is when the lights are on!
  • The movie on display is Clueless, another stellar transfer from Paramount. Since it is framed at 1.85:1, the screen is in an 8" wide 1.85:1 'flat' config.
  • If you do the math, you will see that i am neither using a constant height scenario (like you would with a 2.35:1 screen), nor a consant width scenario (like you would for widescreen movies on a 1.78:1 screen), but rather a 'constant area' methodology. That means 2.35:1 movies are displayed at full 9' width with 46" height. 1.85:1 movies are shown at 8' width, but at 52" height. 1.33:1 material is a little less than 7' wide and 61" high. CRT and a 4-way maskable screen make this possible. 'Constant area' projection is IMHO by far the best methology, because the brains 'size sensation' is perceived through area. If anyone is interested, i can discuss this in more detail.
  • Camera used this time is my leisure digicam Sony 505V. It produced a lot more noise in the blacks. Will use the Canon D30 the next time again.
  • On the right rack, you see my 5 parasound stereo amps, on top of the left rack is the Lexicon MC1.
  • You can barely see the two rear speakers on the left of the pic, but the left side speaker is well exposed on the wall with the racks. All 4 rear speakers are monstrous 9000 cubic feet THX certified switchable mono/di/bioples. I operate all 4 in dipole mode.
  • The front speakers were on 3 brown boxes in the pix, with the 3 subwoofers behind the screen. That was only a test that evening, I usually have each front speaker seated on a sub.
  • In the left back corner, you see 2 windows completely covered with ugly brown cardboard. Thats one of the things where i still have some work to do.
  • On the right wall, the opening to the next room (bar, fitness) has no thick black curtain yet, thats very high on my todo list.
  • I will talk about how i handle resolutions in the different ratios later, if someone is interested.
  • If you have a panorama viewer, you can use it to show the pic (150 degree horizontal, 45 degree vertical). Makes it somewhat easier to understand the geometry of the room. Remember that this is a 150 degree panorama, that skews the perspective quite heavily!

I really really need to find the time to finish my homepage some day.

.
.
.

Continued...

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #3 of 45 Old 03-21-2001, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
.
.
.

As i explained above, i am using a 'constant area' methology for my screen. To show the difference of the 3 common widescreen ratio concepts, i prepareded some images. For simplicity, I only used the two most popular widescreen ratios: 1.85:1 and 2.35:1, while in reality i implement the concept for all ratios 1.33:1, 1.66:1, 1.85:1, 2.35:1 and 2.76:1.

1) 'constant width' on a 16x9 screen. This is the most common concept. The problem with this popular setup is that you either:
a) sit at a distance so that 1.85:1 movies look perfect, but then 2,35:1 movies look somewhat puny and loose a lot of their impact.
b) or you sit at a distance so that 2.35:1 movies look perfect, but then 1,85:1 movies look somewhat intimidating, a bit too large.

http://www.peopleindustry.de/BjoernR...HT/Ratio01.jpg


2) 'constant height' on a 2.35:1 screen. I prefer this setup over 1 by a long shot. Its like in the theaters, scope movies open up wider to give a more epic, eh, scope. I used this methology for a long time. I either adjusted my seating distance so that 2.35:1 look immersive, but then 1.85:1 movies looked a bit tiny, although acceptable. Or i adjusted my seating distance so that 1.85:1 look just right, but then i ended up with a seating distance of a lot closer than 1.5 times screen width for 2.35:1 movies, which is IMHO simply too close for DVD , let alone other sources. For HDTV material, this would probably be the ideal setup.

http://www.peopleindustry.de/BjoernR...HT/Ratio02.jpg


3) So i decided to go the 'constant area' route, which projects every format so that the same area on screen is occupied. This results in having a almost equal size-sensation, no matter what ratio you display. I am very happy with the results, because i don't get 'somewhat small' feeling for any format, like i did with the other methologies. The actual sizes of the different ratios in my setup are described in an earlier post.

http://www.peopleindustry.de/BjoernR...HT/Ratio03.jpg


Very few people operate their FP system in a 'constant area' scenario, perhaps because it is mandatory to have a real 4-way masking system to implement it. If done right, its amazing.

Hope this is insightful to people who are in the planning stages of a HT room (and others as well, of course). Feel free to ask whatever questions you have, here or through email.


Best regards
Bjoern

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #4 of 45 Old 03-21-2001, 10:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
CINERAMAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: everywhere
Posts: 12,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 39
RAUM GEOMETRIE: PRIMA

MOBEL: What brand Stools?

BILDSchirmanziege:Sehr Sharf , gutten farbe.

Schirm dimension: a bit Klein: )

Overall: A- for America A for Europe.

PD: I "thought up" the first 4 way Stewart Screen in 1993 (4 meter wide). It is specially good for 1.66 aspect ratio. Do you get that?

Sehr Interessant...

I like it. You need a TORUS Screen to stretch to 10.5 wide, with 15 ftl.

Score: "Supervorfhuraum Junior".



[This message has been edited by CINERAMAX (edited 03-22-2001).]
CINERAMAX is offline  
post #5 of 45 Old 03-21-2001, 10:35 PM
Member
 
TonyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ca, USA
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bjoern,

I believe a "I hate you" is in order. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Looks great.

-Tony
TonyM is offline  
post #6 of 45 Old 03-22-2001, 02:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
uncle eric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bjoern,
I'm putting a contract out on you. How dare you have a better HT than me.
Very very nice...great job.
Eric

ISF, THX & HAA Certified
AV Talk Founder
uncle eric is offline  
post #7 of 45 Old 03-22-2001, 12:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Chris Moreau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I give up. I'm just going to kill myself.
Chris Moreau is offline  
post #8 of 45 Old 03-22-2001, 12:50 PM
Senior Member
 
dpak2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My god man, that thing is amazing! I'm sitting here in awe, and like that last poster said, I think I'll go kill myself now http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif WOW! You must be independantly wealthy. All I can say is keep doing your thing! you obviously know a lot about this and I'm sure it'll keep getting better!
dpak2000 is offline  
post #9 of 45 Old 03-22-2001, 01:31 PM
Senior Member
 
harlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New Richmond, WI, USA
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bjoern,
I'm assuming one would need to custom a 4 way masking system? I'm getting an electric motorize screen and I'm looking into Draper's masking system that looks like it keeps the width and adjusts the height. Can one do a truly 4 way with a motorize screen?

Thanks,
Harlock
harlock is offline  
post #10 of 45 Old 03-22-2001, 03:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
SSSWWWEEEEETTTTTTT!!!




------------------
DMan
The Academy Home Theater
DMan is offline  
post #11 of 45 Old 03-23-2001, 05:28 AM
Member
 
BSteinke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: River Forest, IL, USA
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What a great presentation of your HT!! It looks beautiful.

Do you think you could describe in more detail how your 4-way masking system works?

Thanks,

Brian
BSteinke is offline  
post #12 of 45 Old 03-23-2001, 08:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
MonkeyMafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: new york, NY USA
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Dude!!!!! You are so stoked/styling/doped-out with that oh-so-phat setup!!!

Love the seating arrangement and the baffling system to mask yer projector's fanz.

MMAfia
MonkeyMafia is offline  
post #13 of 45 Old 03-25-2001, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 3,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11

Bjorn,

Don't you worry a little about multiple zone burn-in with this constant area business? The visual impact is arguably worthwhile, with as an added benefit hotspotting which will diminish over time thanks to greater burn-in in the center of the screen than on its outer edges. I think you're maybe onto something...

Not to forget: nice looking theater! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/cool.gif

------------------

Brett

Brett
Brett is offline  
post #14 of 45 Old 03-26-2001, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
harlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New Richmond, WI, USA
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bjoern,

You still there? It started looking into the Stewart Ultimate 4-way but from what you are saying I still need a custom masking, correct?


harlock
harlock is offline  
post #15 of 45 Old 03-26-2001, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry for not answering yet, folks! Had a busy week. But i try to post later today.

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #16 of 45 Old 03-26-2001, 03:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
David600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: the REAL cinema experience at home: THAT's the trick.
Posts: 4,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
10 thumbs up !! awesome set up. I knew you were among the "smart" HT guys with your awesome charts comparing DD and DTS track but this fabulous.
I also have a large room and some nice stuff but you really have a superb set up. congrats!!

btw, if one time you can compare some films on laserdisc and dvd and put graphs, that would be VERY interesting (some ideas: ALIENS DD ld vs ALIENS DD dvd for instance or HEAT, don't know if you have them though ).

again, superb sustem of yours. guys like you are inspiration to us.

David


------------------
for cinema sound in your HT, use cinema speakers and cinema amps! unbeatable.
David600 is offline  
post #17 of 45 Old 03-26-2001, 06:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rachael Bellomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Knocksville TN, capitol por republica de Polezannia
Posts: 8,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I want to see the messy part! Best wishes!

------------------

Rachael,la gata del disco Grande, meow meow!

In real life I am Dot Mongur champion of the International Pacman Federation. I don't play the game, I operate it.....no dot is safe from me....

Rachael Bellomy is offline  
post #18 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 06:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Torre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lawrenceville, GA, USA
Posts: 1,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
AWESOME!! What else can I say. Also, thank you for proving what us NEC XG owners already know. Fantastic colors and contrast!!

I posted a link to this thread in the CRT section http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Mark A. Torre
The Torre Home Theater

Torre is offline  
post #19 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KennyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: within the unlimited boundries of my imagination
Posts: 3,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Very nice, I'm in the process of upgrading my xg135 as we speak!
KennyG is offline  
post #20 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Torre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lawrenceville, GA, USA
Posts: 1,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Kenny, what are you doing now??!!

Please wait until I get there to see it before you go screwing it up http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Mark A. Torre
The Torre Home Theater

Torre is offline  
post #21 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 08:37 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Roy

Great theater. I am a fan of maintaining constant height as they do in most commercial theaters!
I use a 235:1 screen when ever I can. As you mention there is a down side no matter which way you choose. I just love the look of a 235 screen.



------------------
Thanks Very Much!

Alan Gouger
AV Science
www.avscience.com
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #22 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 02:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaGamePimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: WA State
Posts: 15,478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Oh My ! (jaw on the floor - little drool)
ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh man am I jealous !!!


------------------
Creative Minds Inc. (CMI)
DaGamePimp is online now  
post #23 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Again, sorry i didn't answer earlier...

At first i thought this thread was heading in the wrong direction. One guy hating me, another guy putting a contract on me, 2 guys killing themselfs, Peter mutating to his German Oberlehrer alter ego... heh http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Peter,

it means a lot to me to get good marks from a guy who has basically seen everthing money can buy, thanks!

The geometry of the room is quite amazing because of the trapezoid shape. Its a psychological thing. A 9' wide screen on a 10.5' wide wall looks huge, while on a 14-15 feet wide wall it might look small. Thats why i chose this shape over a shoebox room. I have seen this implemented in some 500-1000 seat theaters also and think its amazing.

Your comment that the 9' wide screen is a bit 'small' is well taken, but in my case its the perfect size. 1) The wall is only 10.5' wide, so a 10.5' wide torus like you suggest would make horizontal curtain masking difficult to impossible. 2) 90% of my source material is DVD and as i described, i don't find a viewing distance of less than 1.5 times screen width acceptable even with the best DVD transfers. My whole theater is constructed to that formula.

I would only need a bigger screen, lets say 14' wide, if i would design a bigger theater with 3 seating rows (5-6 seats each), again with the front row at about 1.5 times screen width. I would design it in the same fashion again, trapezoid shape and all, but with a symmetrical back of the room, of course. That would be one hell of a theater, but have a huuuge footprint. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

But maybe there is a 9.5 wide curved screen in my future, but for added brightness (or increased tube life) only. I will definitly consult you for expertise if i ever plan to pull that off.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">It is specially good for 1.66 aspect ratio. Do you get that?"</font>
Sorry, i don't understand, what should i get?

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Score: 'Supervorfhuraum Junior'.</font>
Hooray! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Best regards
Bjoern


btw. the eqipment racks (not really good visible in the shot) are from Schroers&Schroers, the company you once asked about here in the forum, remember?




[This message has been edited by Bjoern Roy (edited 03-28-2001).]

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #24 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
dpak,

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">You must be independantly wealthy.</font>
If i were independantly wealthy, i would have build the 3 seating row variety i talked about above with a 14' wide screen (maybe curved) and a Sony G90 double stack. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I did all of the work myself. Concepts, design, labor. It took over a year to complete (and is still not quite finished).


Jeroen,

i fear the website is not in the too near future http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif Thanks for pushing me, though http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


harlock,

i am not familiar with the Draper maskable screen. I take it has black masks for the top and bottom? How does it operate them and how many positions can it be moved to? If it allows you to implement several (at least 3) custom heights, it would be a great start. A motorized curtain could be used for the horizontal masking.

But people that don't have a permanent HT with a fixed screen have a problem... Were to put the black masking curtains once the electrical screen goes up? A living room would look kinda stupid with some black curtains in the middle of the room. I have some ideas how to overcome this burden, though. If someone is in that situation, simply describe your setup, or better yet, sent me a pic of your room, and i will give it a shot.

As far as i know, the Steward 4-way screen uses fixed-width-masks that come down on each side to mask the 16:9 screen to 4:3 instead of curtains. That would be too unflexible to implement constant area projection. And its expensive, too.

Regards
Bjoern

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #25 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
BSteinke,

The masking is custom, non-motorized yet. Black curtains left and right. Top mask is pull down.

The lower mask is quite simple, too: The top edge is a 10' wide 1"x2" rod with the black fabric wrapped around. The fabric hangs free approximately 1' and has another thin rod wrapped in at the bottom for weight. The 1x2 rod has two 1' chains left and right that can be attached to hooks that hide behind the curtains on the left and right wall. If that makes no sense to you, i will need to do a drawing. Motorizing at least the curtains is a late 2001 project.


Brett,

i was very concerned about burn-in at first. But now i think more and more that it is a hyped-up issue. I operate the XG with these different aspect ratios for almost 2000 hours at 70 contrast (incredible bright) without the slightest form of burn-in. I always use the 15min. white screen warm-up procedure to stabalize convergence, so all of the phosphor is used regularly. We all know that contrast 70 alone doesn't say a lot because of the other service settings. So its kinda irrelevant. But as an indication, both red and green are well below blooming with scanlines still barely visible in 1600x680 (2.35:1 equivalent of 1600x1200) with the screen in the 9' wide 2.35:1 ratio, using the almost the full raster width.

Corner focus is also no problem with the constant area methology, because your usable image never comes near the corners http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif This encourages to use the maximum tolerable raster width for increased brightness.

Regards
Bjoern

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #26 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
David,
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">10 thumbs up !! awesome set up.</font>
10 thumbs? So you are from the X-men mutant gang after all, I knew it all along! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Rachael,
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I want to see the messy part! Best wishes!</font>
No way! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Alan,

i just love 2.35:1, too! Since most of my viewing is done in 2.35:1 these days anyway, my screen is in that ratio most of the time anyway. And i wholeheartly agree, entering my HT with the screen in 2.35:1 mode gives me goosebumps every time. My theater is designed to give the perfect experience for 2.35:1 material. So its not different to a 'pure' 2.35:1 screen in that regard. Its just that i use a few percent more screen area for movies in the 1.85:1 ratio than you would with a 2.35:1 screen. You would have to try it to get a believer in this. In a movie theater its quite different for me, because i usually sit at 1 times screen width or closer, so no matter what ratio the movie is, its HUGE http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Best regards
Bjoern

Thanks for the kind words, everyone!



[This message has been edited by Bjoern Roy (edited 03-28-2001).]

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
post #27 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
David600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: the REAL cinema experience at home: THAT's the trick.
Posts: 4,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
wouarff !! http://cwmonkey.virtualave.net/s/net8/fruit.gif

got to go now http://cwmonkey.virtualave.net/s/net3/outtahere.gif . truely great HT, more photos!!

I've sent you two photos from mine too, while doing some modifications (still much unfinished).
it's now back to my Dalite screen and the subs are on the right side. part of the fun with HT hobby is moving hardware http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
for cinema sound in your HT, use cinema speakers and cinema amps! unbeatable.
David600 is offline  
post #28 of 45 Old 03-28-2001, 08:17 PM
Senior Member
 
harlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New Richmond, WI, USA
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bjoern,
Here's Draper's product
"Access Sonata—a motorized screen and masking system linked electronically to provide your choice of four different projection formats at the touch of a button. From the 1:1.33 NTSC format, the screen retracts and the mask lowers to form these popular formats: 1:1.78 HDTV; 1:1.85 WideScreen; and 1:2.35 CinemaScope.
Access Sonata is a three-piece system that installs as one unit:
· An Access headbox for ceiling recessed installation complete with factory installed junction boxes, bottom panel and perimeter flange that trims the rough opening.
· A motorized projection screen with your choice of viewing surface: Series V with M1300 or M2500; or Series E with fiberglass matt white, glass beaded, or acoustically transparent AT1200.
· A flat black mask on a second motor-in-roller converts the screen to your choice of four formats: NTSC, HDTV, WideScreen, and CinemaScope.
During the change of formats, the center line and width of the viewing surface remain constant while the mask and projection screen move simultaneously into their factory preset positions. Each projection screen is manufactured with 12" of extra black drop at the top of the viewing area.
The unique 6-button wall switch operates the Access Sonata:
· From its “closed†position, simply push any one of the four format buttons and the screen and mask lower into place in the format of your choice. Switch between formats by pushing a different format button."

They way it sounds I should be able to do "constant area", correct?

Harlock

harlock is offline  
post #29 of 45 Old 03-29-2001, 11:57 PM
Member
 
indieke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Draguignan, Var, France
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This solution looks nice, but must be expensive. I have a 2 nd hand XG 135 (not lc)with a vigatec. I have an electric screen 1 meter or more from the wall. I am sitting at 5.5 meter from the screen. Wich size would be the best with such an installation. I don't know anything about american/english sizes, so neither the screen of Bjoern. Now I have a 2.35 meter screen 16/9.
indieke is offline  
post #30 of 45 Old 04-09-2001, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Bjoern Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: German Videophile (terminally anal-retentive)
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have done some more screenshots, this time from Paramount's Rules of Engagement. Video and audio wise, this disc is heaven on earth. This is one of the very few titles without any edge enhancement. Beautiful! Basically this transfer looks like film and makes 90% of all other 2.35:1 transfers currently out (esp. Col/Tristar) look like video by comparisson. When Paramount delivers, its truly sensational.

The soundtrack, especially the Vietnam beginning is breathtaking. Think SPR league with jungle effects here. Holy cow!

I removed all of the pictures i posted here before. You can see them and lots of others on my screenshots page:

http://home.t-online.de/home/bjoern....en/Page_01.htm

.
.
.

[This message has been edited by Bjoern Roy (edited 09-23-2001).]

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity" (Bullet Tooth Tony in 'Snatch')
Videophile.info (HD and DVD reviews, SPL measurements, my HT in action...) | 'Edge Enhancement' Guide
Bjoern Roy is offline  
Closed Thread DVD Players (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off