DVD 963 SA Arrived Today - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1839 Old 01-04-2003, 07:06 AM
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Interesting! Hopefully the pricing will be decent..
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post #722 of 1839 Old 01-04-2003, 10:05 AM
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Maybe I should start another thread on this, but has anyone seen these LCOS TV´s. Are their pictures as good as a plasma, does it have HDCP uppgradeable DVI inputs??? Where can I get more info on these TV´s?

Birgir "keyser"
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post #723 of 1839 Old 01-04-2003, 11:44 AM
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Odeen and Alfonso,

Thank you for your posts. It is good to know that. I am, generally, OK, with
this fee loss, because the rules are the rules. However, still two options remain for improvement:

1. Why did not they explain it to me (and I have to learn it from this thread)?

2. Still (not that I am greedy), why a customer should lose anything at all,
if it is not his/her fault. I think in the case like that, the mail order company should try to explain any kind of rules like that prior the sale. Then, there will be no more misunderstandings like that in the future.

Alek
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post #724 of 1839 Old 01-04-2003, 10:42 PM
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I agree with you and with alfonso and others. I am kind of a dual -headed person. HOWEVER, it is quite common to make a downpayment on an order, and in the bussiness world , when cancelling the order you loose the downpayment.

You choose to cancel the order and thus you lost a bit of money on it. If you would have waited the money would not have been lost.

my 2 cnts worth...

Erick
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post #725 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 01:16 PM
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Are there any reviews out yet on the 963?

Does anyone know if they can be SDI modded?

Does it have all the features of other high end players like my pio 737? like last memo for dvd´s, all picture tweaks possible while the dvd is playing, jog shuttle, zoom, bitrate meter, remaining time meter, backlight remote, etc. ? Philips have sometimes had bad remotes(I love my pio 737 remote) and a lack of features.

Birgir "keyser"
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post #726 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 01:32 PM
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keyser,

The DVD963SA hasn't been reviewed yet in English speaking countries, probably because it has not been released officially in any of them. Actually the only countries where I've seen the 963SA "widely" available are France and The Netherlands (there may be others, I just don't know them :)).

Regarding SDI mods, well, since the 963SA is very modular it should be easy to make one, but I wonder if someone will.

What would be REALLY cool is if somebody made a mod to tap the digital ouputs of the FLI23xx and connect them to a DVI transmitter chip and then to a DVI-D connector. That would be the ULTIMATE mod for the 963SA... And probably cheap too!

Best regards,

Afonso.
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post #727 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 01:36 PM
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I added a little to my apove post :)

A DVI mod.. I´ve never heard of that.. is that possible??? That would indeed be the ultimate and would save me the cost of an external scaler if the all digital path were to be taken.

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post #728 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 01:43 PM
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keyser,

Regarding the additions to your post, get the manual and see it yourself. You can get the manual on the Philips sites in Europe (try Philips UK, for example).

Regarding the DVI-D mod, sure, of course. The FLI23xx chips have digital RGB outputs, which you can feed to a DVI-D transmitter, like the ones from Silicon Image. Then you just have to connect the DVI-D transmitter to the DVI-D connector. Pretty easy, not much electronics involved.

Best regards,

Afonso.
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post #729 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 02:30 PM
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I was kinda going the easy route and skipping on looking throught the manual:) But I´ll check it out.

If the DVI thing is so simple, why has noone done it.. as it would be brilliant. An all digital path!!

Birgir "keyser"
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post #730 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 02:36 PM
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Yes, if the DVI-D mod was available, that's something I'd definitely go for ; hopefully someone in the States will offer this sometime ...

M.
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post #731 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 02:57 PM
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monk, keyser,

Well, I have absolutely no idea why nobody has offered that yet. The circuit is fairly easy to engineer. Possibly, because until recently there weren't those many devices with DVI-D inputs... Also, it's not trivial to tap the digital outputs from the FLI23xx (mechanically). The installation of the mod would be very tricky, trickier than SDI because of the number and type of pins and signals involved.

What really irritates me is that the manufacturers are delaying introduction of DVI-D outputs on their players for no apparent reason. For them adding DVI-D is absolutely and completely trivial. Before they had the copy protection excuse (no Macrovision), but now, with HDCP (and with off-the-shelf DVI-D HDCP transmitters available), not even that serves as an excuse anymore. Heck, I could change the design of the 963SA to have a DVI-D HDCP output in about 10 minutes, including the layout changes on the PCB CAD.

Best regards,

Afonso.
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post #732 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 03:38 PM
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I can´t see if the player has time remaning meter.. does it have it?


Because this thread is huge it would be great (and maybe others would like that) if someone could comment on the firmwares and the problems. There has been an issue about vcd lip sync hasn´t there, and someone commented about pillarboxes (any other problems)? Is the region and pal progressive hack no problem and working fine for everyone?

How does one update the firmware anyway?

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post #733 of 1839 Old 01-05-2003, 05:56 PM
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Keyser,

The firmware can be upgraded using a CD-R. The VCD lip syn problem can be solved by selecting "Auto" in the TV system. My family and I have tried more than 50VCD an I have not experience any problem so far....

Did not find the pillar box a problem as I do not zoom image for general viewing anyway.

Region and PAL hack is confirm OK.
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post #734 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 12:39 AM
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keyser,

-I don't think it has a time remaining meter; only total time
-It does have last memory
-It has a bit rate display
-If you love the remote for the Pioneer 737 you'll hate the one for the 963SA. It sucks, big time. No jog shuttle, no backlighting, menu cursor keys shared with FF/REW functions, confusing key layout... I honestly can't believe this is one of the leading CE firms of the world.

If Pioneer ever make a high-quality DVD player with DCDi and no chroma bug, my 963SA will go bye-bye in a heartbeat. Meanwhile, it'll do.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #735 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 01:12 AM
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I bought a 963sa last week and was initially very pleased with it. However I think I have a lip sync problem during dvd playback when using the YUV output to my Sanyo beamer (PAL progressive).

Can anyone else spot this problem? It doesn't occur all the time but some dvd's sometimes go out of sync (fifth element region 2 (when ruby starts talking)).

The RGB output to my TV doens't seem to have that problem. When running the TV and beamer at the same time the beamer sometimes seems to be a fraction of second slower. So I'm guessing that I have a problem with the faroudja holding up the image....

(if I'm the only one I'll probably have to return the unit...damn, otherwise I hope we can get Philips to do a firmware update).

DK
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post #736 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 03:21 AM
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You're not the only one, dkunst. I've noticed that too. I read that all deinterlacers introduce a slight delay in the video, which was more noticeable in PAL than in NTSC.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #737 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 09:38 AM
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Has someone successfully connected a 963SA to a Loewe Xelos 5381ZW at the build in VGA module.My question did you have wide screen or only 4:3 (640x480).
At this moment i've got my 963SA connected by an home made cable to scart 3 of the Loewe. Got the signal from the faroudja only YUV, not progressive.
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post #738 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 10:45 AM
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I have also noticed lip sync issues on R2 DVDs with both DD and DTS. I first noticed it listening to DTS on an R2 Superbit disc and thought it might be my receiver. But, I have now seen it with DD as well.
The thing that is strange is that the sync changes from ok to bad and back again, in a continuous cycle. I haven't yet watched a R1 disc on the 963. I'll go test Blade2 R1 in both DD and DTS now.

BTW, my 963 is connected to a Sony 11HT projector via YPrPb and I'm using a Sony receiver(soon to be replaced) to decode the audio.

Cheers, William
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post #739 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 10:56 AM
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...ordered my 963SA in the Netherlands at:

http://www.diga4u.nl/pages/detail.ph...ummer=DVD963SA

E402
takes 3-4 weeks for delivery.

come to daddy!
cheers.
NutjeKova
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post #740 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 12:41 PM
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After watching 15 minutes of mouths in both DTS and DD of Blade II R1, I didn't see any lip sync issues other than the normal slight delay I always have due to the video processing. I intend on rectifying this with a new processor in February that has an audio delay adjustment.

So, I'll have to do some more testing with R2 discs.
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post #741 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 01:31 PM
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ainfante,

Are you saying you can mod the 963 in 10 minutes to have a progressive DVI-D input??

It´s amazing that a quality product like this has lip sync issues. Given the time that progressive has been around I would have thought they would have gotten the delay right by now.

My Denon 3802 doesn´t have master audio delay so I would be forced to buy the wave by vigatec which is quite expensive, but then I think I have to change the delay settings when I go from r1 to r2 DVD because they have different delays. Should DVD manufactuers have gotten right pal and ntsc audio delay times for progressive images. I think the arcam player got it right.

I don´t think I´ll buy the 963 if it has lip sync issues that can´t be cured by a firmware fix. Not worth changing from my pionerr to get a better picture at the price of lip sync issues and a crap remote and less features.

Birgir "keyser"
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post #742 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 02:21 PM
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keyser,

The DESIGN, not the physical player. I said:

"I could change the *DESIGN* of the 963SA to have a DVI-D HDCP output in about 10 minutes, including the layout changes on the PCB CAD [Computer Aided DESIGN]"

Best regards,

Afonso.
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post #743 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 02:35 PM
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Ainfante,

you said moding for DVI was pretty easy, do you know why companies that are SDI modding aren´t doing DVI mods?

If they are easy to do, then they must be available for the top players soon because DVI inputs are getting more popular.

Birgir "keyser"
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post #744 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 03:03 PM
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keyser,

I have no idea. Maybe you should ask them :)

Also, as I said before, although easy to engineer and build, there may be mechanical issues with the tapping of the FLI2xxx outputs. That's what make SDI mods easier on some players than others, and that's what may be preventing DVI-D mods from coming out.

Best regards,

Afonso.
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post #745 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 09:56 PM
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Keyser,

There will be 2-3 field delay on the player with external p-scan as the outboard processor need several fields to do the deinterlacing (3-2 pull down). This should be common to all players that has external deinterlacing. It will also occur if you use any external deinterlacer which will also need several fields to deinterlace.

However, certain delay will also be introduced by your receiver doing the DTS or AC-3 decording as well as the time for sound to travel from loud speakers to your ears. So actual delay may not be too big. Personally I don't find it a problem.

Your Pioneer might not have delay if it uses internal deinterlacing, however, the quality of deinterlacing will be inferior to the 963sa. A trade off I am NOT willing to make.

Also, the Pioneer does not have 192khz upsampling and uses cheap 6 channel DACs......
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post #746 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 10:49 PM
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ZR, are you going to be at CES?
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post #747 of 1839 Old 01-06-2003, 11:25 PM
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I spend a few hours last night watching a number of movies and trying to spot when the player would go out of lip sync. Couldn't detect a noticable lip sync problem on Matrix, LOTR or Aliens (all R2). I'm still not sure if the problem is big enough to return the unit... I use the internal audio decoders so you would think Philips could predict and setup a correct sound delay..... I think I'll try and get a message to Philips customer support and see what they have to say on this issue. I also have some friends that have connections in Philips consumer electronics software development and try if they can give me some info....

DK
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post #748 of 1839 Old 01-07-2003, 12:32 AM
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dkunst,

while you're at it, tell your friends to ask about firmware upgrades for the 963SA :D

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #749 of 1839 Old 01-07-2003, 08:57 AM
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There seems to be an upgrade, at least it is a file dated 2003 3rd january, that has been leacked today in a french forum.
I will keep you informed as soon as I get a download link and/or some information regarding this file (no confirmation yet that this file solves anything or even apply to dvd963!)

Laurent
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post #750 of 1839 Old 01-07-2003, 09:34 AM
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What´s the new firmware for.. I thought there were no problems with this player?

ZR,
I´m not saying that I would have the pio instead of the philips if I was given a choice between the two :) But when I buy something new I want an improvement but not a step backwards in some other department to get that improvement, like getting a better picture for the price of lip sync problems. Kinda like I bought a toshiba progressive scan TV, and I got the benefits of progressive scan, but the TV sucked in other ways that my small interlaced Sony CRT doesn´t so I returned it. It just bothers me that manufacturers can´t seem to get all these thing right for once, there always seems to be some stupid quirk with everything.

Can someone confirm that this player doesn´t have the chroma bug, that the Faroudja chip isn´t just filtering it. I don´t understand in the benchmark tests they say that the philips Q50 has a very bad chroma bug and the Faroudja chip softens it up.. but on their chroma bug free players list they have the Q50 as one of them!

Birgir "keyser"
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