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post #91 of 662 Old 04-05-2003, 04:47 AM
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Denonjeff,

I was just curious to know but are you guys considering a upgrade for
the 9000 with SACD capability ??

Thanx,

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post #92 of 662 Old 04-05-2003, 11:26 AM
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Thanks, Big D TV, because the slide show feature with VCD and SVCD is a major feature in my want list also. With me it must work easily as I am computor disfunctional to the point I could not follow your tracks, but your bringing this part of the equation up to the manufacturers' reps is the way to go.

.........

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post #93 of 662 Old 04-05-2003, 04:17 PM
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What happens to the DSD bitstream from SACD's is a big concern for many audio enthusiasts. Many players convert it to PCM somewhere along the way, which is not why we buy SACD's. DSD should remain 100% DSD all the way through (and during conversion of the digital data into analog), and I hope Denon makes good on their promise.

If Denon has produced a bug-free product right out of the starting gates this time around, I will most definitely buy one. Just too bad the build quality isn't the same as their tank-like players from the mid-80's to early 90's. I still have a top of the line Denon CD player from 1985, and while audio quality, laser tracking and error correction have improved tremendously over the years in many lines of players, I have never had any problems with it once and it still works fine. How times have changed!

Dan

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post #94 of 662 Old 04-05-2003, 08:21 PM
 
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I'm interested in this player as well... to replace both my Marantz DV8300(audio) and my Panasonic rp82(video).

Is this player the audio and video equal to them both in a single box? Well Jeff, is it???
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post #95 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 09:24 AM
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Merc, that's the real question isn't it? Does it equal or outdo the best affordable DVD video source and equal or better the popular multi format sources.

I have the Sony 9000ES and have yet to find a product that outperforms it overall. For some reason the 9000ES could stand next to many high end CD players and more than hold its own, it often outperformed them. I know of someone who sold his Mark Levinson CD player for the Sony 9000ES after extensive side by side face-offs at the audio society he was a member of. I think if any company could top the audio of the 9000ES in the same price range, it will be Denon. Of course it is bad form that say "my ... looks better than...", but there are ways to state the facts without being offensive, Jeff?
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post #96 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 11:14 AM
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I just saw SONY is RELEASING ES series SACD players with FIREWIRE!! so Expect firewire on their RECIEVERS too!!
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post #97 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 11:31 AM
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zoro,

Proprietary Firewire (which can only be used with Sony gear), or are they using the finalized universal digital connector that will work with any pre-amp or receiver with a Firewire input?

Dan

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post #98 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey folks,

Some quick observations:

The 2900 will treat PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD all the way through. This was a design priority as we know what was being done in the marketplace and did not want to follow that path.

My engineers have told me the Sony DSD Decoder does NOT due time delay, which is why we are not offering it on the 2900. I am not saying this is definitive, only what I was told.

To my knowledge, Sony/Philips have not agreed on a digital out for SACD. It was never put into the specifications. This is why we are working with Sony on our Link, no new news to report at this time. Also the 1394 on some other companies gear is not univerisal as someone mentioned, and the 4C granted a lisence similiar to the DENON Link at the moment.

Now about the competition, how do I put this..."At its price point, we believe we have the finest performer for all formats."

The 9000 most likely will not be offered an upgrade to SACD, as it would mean basically rebuilding the unit - it does not have DSD decoder as well as a digital frontend to differentiate PCM and DSD. Sorry.

Regarding the Mits MPEG decoder, my engineers got Mits to correct the Bug in their chipset, this is the explanation for a delay in the launch of the product. I went to Japan in December to evaluate the unit and low and behold the Bug was as bad as the 47Ai we were comparing it to! Of course it was unexceptable, so they got it fixed! Now before anyone asks how could it even have happened in the first place, the 2900 head designer was there for SACD integration, with limited background in video - different group than from 3800 and 9000. However now that the dust has settled,my hat is of to them! I have a working production unit at home and it looks and sound great - of course I could be slightly biased.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #99 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 03:46 PM
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hi,

does it have a screensaver, and auto-resume (not having to pre-press a button) AFTER disc ejection/power off etc?

thanks

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post #100 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 04:05 PM
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Jeff:

#1 Will there be a new model released by Denon that will equal the DVD9000, but have SACD capability? Or, will Denon release the DVD3900 to be that player (eg, no new 9000 series in 2003)?

#2 Can you give us any information on the upcoming Denon Home Theater preamp and when is its expected release?

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #101 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yumbo,

Sorry no screensaver. I have asked but the problem are the discs, more specifically the motion menus they incorporate. When a movie ends, it goes back to the main disc menu, and if it is active, or looping, it is difficult for the player to go to a screensaver.

Autoplay is a yes, but on powerdown while the disc is playing. Upon power up the player will go to the exact place when power was removed - this happens on 3800/9000 as well.

Joe,

The 3900 will replace, and push upmarket the 3800, while we will have a replacement or top-o-line later this year.

Has far as the pre/pro, should be later this, early next year.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #102 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 07:03 PM
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Jeff, sincere thanks for all your efforts here. I wish Sony was anywhere near as responsive to the people most interested in their products, namely us, AVS members, A/V Enthusiasts! Considering the absolutely amazing interest shown in their announcement regarding SXRD projectors, the silence is deafening.

Jeff, if the Denon 2900 does outperform the current crop of multi format DVD players in audio quality and equal or surpass the Panasonic RP-82, I will buy one and recommend it to at least three friends, as well as promote it at the A/V sites. I can't wait for the Secrets evaluation. Stacey, go get busy, we need your help.

Now, what differences will there be in the 3900 when compared to the 2900?

I'd like to know if it's something I might want to wait for. It won't hurt sales if people know about an upcoming model, I'm sure the price will be different. Also, a satisfied enthusiast is worth five hundred average customers because of the word of mouth being exponentially enhanced through the Internet. They won't mind waiting a bit if it means satisfaction.
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post #103 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
To my knowledge, Sony/Philips have not agreed
on a digital out for SACD. It was never put into the
specifications.
Well, you might want to consider actually reading the
SACD specification. IEEE1394 is spelled out in:

Super Audio CD System Description Part 3
Copy Protection Specification
Version 1.3 July 2002

Ron

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post #104 of 662 Old 04-06-2003, 11:23 PM
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hi,

I understand about motion menus, and that is fine.
Onkyo has no problems with its screensaver application, ie. when the menu is static!

I will go out of my way to buy one if it has a SIMPLE screensaver. I would then recommend it to many hardware starved customers this end.

thanks

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post #105 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Also, a satisfied enthusiast is worth five hundred average customers because of the word of mouth being exponentially enhanced through the Internet.

So what's an unsatisfied enthusiast worth!!! double that figure at least

Please DENON dont rush to get this out by being pressured to a time frame I had so many problems from my first 2800 this would to me be the FINAL straw like so many others I rather wait till its done right..just my 2 cents worth
cheers laurie
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post #106 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ron,

Thanks for the info, I will look into. However my meetings with Sony and Universal Music group indicated otherwise. Confusion does rein in this business!

Martin,

I will have info to share in a couple of months. Sorry as much as I would like to talk about the upcoming 3900, I can't right now. Rest assured it will be worth the extra dollars and provide for greater video and multi-channel audio performance.

Yumbo,

We may not have screensavers for static menus, we do have however Auto-Power off.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #107 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 08:19 AM
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Thanks Jeff, are you able to let us know if the 3900 will have SACD capability?
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post #108 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 08:32 AM
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Jeff,

I looked at the manual and on the Denon site and had a few questions.

It recommends using the analog outputs instead of the digital optical or coax. This is the recommended setup when using the combination of DVD-V, DVD-A, and SACD? If someone was just using DVD-V would they use one of the digital outputs?

I did not find much on bass management. I have a satellite/sub system and need the bass to be summed for DVD-A and SACD. Is this the case?

Thanks,
Brad
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post #109 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Martin,

All players above the 2900 will be SACD/DVD-A.

Brad,

DENON USA recommends using the digital output for DD and dts, and the 5.1 for DVD-A/SACD. For DVD-A/SACD use the CD input on your receiver, and if possible lock the input on the 5.1 analog inputs. Lock the DVD input on the digital input you have connected (coaxial or optical).

As far as the BM goes, if your sub/sat system does the crossover for the system you would set up the 2900 to Large speakers. If you want PM me with the speakers you use and I can be more specific.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #110 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 10:55 AM
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eww,

exactly what Panasonic said.
Auto power off does not work on static menus (only on stop, or pause mode - which is annoying; pause is pause, for a good reason).

please verify your version of APO is not the same as Panasonic.

thanks.

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post #111 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 01:49 PM
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DenonJeff,
All this good news about the 2900, I just can't wait to snatch one up. However, a CSR told me last week that it won't be available until late May, but you mentioned early May in an earlier post. Please clarify. Also, can you say whether such large retailers as J&R will be among the first stores to carry the model? I know J&R is restricted to in-store sales for some other Denon products. Thanks.
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post #112 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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We should be shipping them to dealers, those that ordered them mind you - and not all have at this point, by the end of this month, so they should be in stores May.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #113 of 662 Old 04-07-2003, 07:08 PM
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DenonJeff , can you comment on the sacd capabilities of the 2900? How does it compare to the Sony DVP-NS999ES? The Sony Specs say it has 6 sacd decoders, what about the Denon? I know it uses the same dsd decoders but is it implemented as well? I just worry about "jack of all trades" units not doing any one thing really well.
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post #114 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 07:53 AM
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I think I found my answer from Denon's site:
"Custom Built to DENON Specifications - Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz DSD 1790 Audio DACs that decode PCM and DSD signals discretely with no down-conversion of DSD " How many DACS does the 2900 use?
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post #115 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 08:37 AM
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DenonJeff,

Could you comment on which players the 2900 is being benchmarked against? How will it compare with the Yamaha 2300? I'm primarily interested in stand-alone audio performance on CD and SACD.

Thanks!
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post #116 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 08:52 AM
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hi,

does it have scaling?

thanks

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post #117 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 09:25 AM
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Jay S:

As I mentioned earlier in this thread a pseudo-comparison has already been done between the 3800 and the 2300, and since on paper the 2900 shares much of the video circuitry with the 3800 I'm not optimistic that the overall picture quality of the 2900 will beat the 2300.

However, having said that, I will be quite interested what the folks at Secrets have to say about the 2900, as well as direct shootout results between the 2900 and 2300.

Brian.
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post #118 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay S
DenonJeff,

Could you comment on which players the 2900 is being benchmarked against? How will it compare with the Yamaha 2300? I'm primarily interested in stand-alone audio performance on CD and SACD.

Thanks!
Same here!!:D
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post #119 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 03:52 PM
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Brian,

"..........and since on paper the 2900 shares much of the video circuitry with the 3800 I'm not optimistic that the overall picture quality of the 2900 will beat the 2300"

Ummm ........ I've read all/most-of the 2300 threads and I sense that the jury is still heavily out on 3800 PQ versus 2300 PQ.

The 2300 of course has problems that the 3800 doesn't such as progressive mode bandwidth roll-off with it's resulting softness and more importantly - that doggone Faroudja CCS function is default ON by design in the 2300. Of course the 2300 has the Y/C Delay nemesis as does the 3800 - but this can be eliminated externally for both players. Hopefully the 2900 will fix this.

I will grant you that there is some un-measured indication that the Faroudja deinterlacing may "look better" on fixed pixel displays than Silicon Image deinterlacing. However, on CRT based displays many seem to think that the Silicon Image does it's thing to produce a "different kind" of image on them versus what Faroudja does on fixed pixels. For CRT displays, Faroudja PQ over Si PQ is definitely a matter of preference - not of superiority one way or the other.

If I had a fixed pixel display, I'd definitely side-by-side compare similarly priced Faroudja and Silicon Image players before deciding. What the 3800 does on a CRT based display can be phenomenal, IMHO so far.

Phil
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post #120 of 662 Old 04-08-2003, 04:10 PM
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Well Phil, at least for the folks that I've spoken to that have compared the 3800 and 2300 side-by-side the jury is not out. They kept the 2300 and returned the 3800.

Still, the 2300 is not perfect by any means; it's setup is THE most confusing I've ever seen from ANY player. I think the slightly rolled-off bandwidth works to the advantage of the 2300, still I would like to think that you could achieve the film-like picture of the 2300 with a bit more sharpness. Having said that, the 2300 as far as detail and resolution is concerned is the best I've seen; better than the 3800, better than the RP-91.

Once the 2900 comes out, I'm sure that there will be no lack of strong personal opinions about this player!;)
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