DVD-2900 Information - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 11:53 AM
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Jeff, is MSRP $799...for 2900/ thnx
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post #182 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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MSRP for the DVD-2900 is $999.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #183 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 12:29 PM
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My "outlaw" reason for paying attention to my 3800's resizing capability and that on any new upcoming DVD players is to also size anamorphic DVD's as I please.

The 3800's "zooms" (and probably the 2900's) do this very well in that the quality is still very high using small amounts of Denon's zoom, such as just the first zoom increment on the 3800 ..... i.e. an entire movie COULD be enjoyed using the 3800's (and probably 2900's) first zoom step of 1.5X.

Now the big HOWEVER, the first zoom step is still too doggone large on the 3800 (and probably 2900) at 1.5X. I wish Denon had thrown in 2-3 small zoom steps like 1.1X, 1.2X, and 1.3X. Then I would have something I could really work with to tweak anamorphic AR's slightly as needed without too much cropping. (This still would not make non-anamorphic aspect ratios fit a 16X9 screen though - like the RP91 does. This type of image resizing is special as it is NOT "equal-linear" resizing in both the height and width dimensions like I am talking about. What the RP91 does is very interesting and useful and probably is going to continue being rare due to the increasing emphasis on anamorphic and consequent decline in non-anamorphic releases.)

Of course the ULTIMATE image resizing capability is the functionality provided in certain players utilizing the Mediamatic's all-in-one DVD player chips. (Malata, some JVC's, etc.) On these rare players one can pixel-by-pixel resize the DVD image (non-anamorphic and anamorphic) in BOTH the X (horizontal) and Y (vertical) dimensions independently - outstanding - just like you have been able to do in PC image editing programs for years. This type resize capability permits doing anything you want to non-anamorphics and anamorphics with respect to resizing.

I believe Stacey hinted in a post some time ago that the new family of Genesis FLI23XX chips had similar capabiliy to Mediamatics (multiple digital tap zooming) built-in ...... if OEM's would just use it in their DVD player designs with the new FLI chips. ;)

Phil
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post #184 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 01:05 PM
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Man, why cant manufacturers get this right? I can understand companies' desire to cut costs, but why this feature (as implemented in the RP91) isnt available on EVERY player above $750 MSRP is beyond me, and extremely frustrating.
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post #185 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles J P
Man, why cant manufacturers get this right? I can understand companies' desire to cut costs, but why this feature (as implemented in the RP91) isnt available on EVERY player above $750 MSRP is beyond me, and extremely frustrating.
Charles- I agree that this feature should be more widely available. There are still so many DVDs that have yet to be given an anamorphic transfer that this is truly a needed function on large HDTVs. It is less an issue for me as I have resigned myself to purchasing an Iscan Ultra. I have dozens of letterboxed laserdiscs which are of course within a 4:3 ratio. Since I am purchasing it for this purpose, its use on DVDs is an added bonus. Still, if I were only needing this scaling function for DVD, I would have to consider the RP-91. I would think that many more companies would look into adding this feature...they are losing sales as the 91's popularity shows.
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post #186 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 05:37 PM
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And unfortunately, very soon, we won't even have the RP91 to go to anymore since Panasonic is finally discontinuing it (after its 2-year run).

I would get a Malata, but they seem unreliable, and I'm not too keen on spending $600 on their upcoming "highend" player.

And yojimbo, I believe you're into foreign films, no? So don't be too quick to rule out a scaling player since the Iscan Ultra won't help you when you need subs.

_Man_
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post #187 of 662 Old 04-11-2003, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Man-Fai Wong
And unfortunately, very soon, we won't even have the RP91 to go to anymore since Panasonic is finally discontinuing it (after its 2-year run).

I would get a Malata, but they seem unreliable, and I'm not too keen on spending $600 on their upcoming "highend" player.

And yojimbo, I believe you're into foreign films, no? So don't be too quick to rule out a scaling player since the Iscan Ultra won't help you when you need subs.

_Man_
Man- I am indeed a foreign film lover. You make an excellent point....and one that had escaped my attention. More to think about....arrrrrgggghhhh!!!
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post #188 of 662 Old 04-12-2003, 09:06 AM
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Jeff,
Thanks for your update. Can you tell me if Y C delay has been corrected?.
One of your earlier threads said that the 2900 would pass any test thrown at it.
Also will all dealers in the Long island area have shipments of the first batch?.
Thanks
Glen
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post #189 of 662 Old 04-12-2003, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DenonJeff
Interesting...I will ask my friends across the sea and get an explanation. I have never paid much attention to the filter setting as it only applies and should only be used for playback of DVD-A 6.0 discs, which there only a couple of titles I know of, in redirecting the sub info from the 6.0 channels to the .1 output, since the 6th channel in these recordings is for height, not a dedicated .1.

My feeling is the first part of the feature should be ignored, and shouldn't have been put there in the first place .

Regards,
DenonJeff,

I have a question regarding this filter function also. I have the Denon 3800 (I know this is the 2900 thread - but it still applies), and it seems that with the default setting of ON, my DVD-A discs lack the same amount of LFE that they had with my old Technics DVD-A10.

My question is, should the Filter be left in the default ON position (which seems incorrect) or should I switch it OFF. Since I have large speakers all around (including my center and surrounds), I believe the OFF setting is the most correct for DVD-A?

The manual, nor the on-line tech paper for setting up the 9000/3800, is very clear on what is the best setting for this filter all around.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Michael T
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post #190 of 662 Old 04-12-2003, 05:40 PM
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to Jeff
If the denon 2900 fails some of hometheaterhifi's tests like y/c delay, will denon release a firmware update for the owners?
I am sick of seeing y/c delay, it ruins a picture because the colors don't fit into the shapes on the screen.
Any advise jeff?
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post #191 of 662 Old 04-12-2003, 09:17 PM
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I've come to the conclusion that the "Filter" on the 3800's menu may merely be poor wording for turning it's bass management functionality ON or OFF. BM on the 3800 is done by a 32bit processor and I think use of this may the "Filter" that is referred to.

The BM functions all grey out on the menu and hence are not accessible with this so called filtering function (use of the processor) set to OFF. I have for a long time now run my 3800 all the time with "Filter" ON - so I can set speakers the way I want them for both my analog HT audio and my analog DVD-A audio.

For some reason the manual implies that "Chesky" DVD-A recordings should be played with this Filter OFF - therefore not being able to perform BM. I have no idea why Chesky recordings (whatever they are) would require all speakers to be set as full range and also not distance-balanced or amplitude-balanced.

Phil
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post #192 of 662 Old 04-13-2003, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
For some reason the manual implies that "Chesky" DVD-A recordings should be played with this Filter OFF - therefore not being able to perform BM. I have no idea why Chesky recordings (whatever they are) would require all speakers to be set as full range and also not distance-balanced or amplitude-balanced.For some reason the manual implies that "Chesky" DVD-A recordings should be played with this Filter OFF - therefore not being able to perform BM. I have no idea why Chesky recordings (whatever they are) would require all speakers to be set as full range and also not distance-balanced or amplitude-balanced.
This might be correct, but with the filter "OFF" the signal to your subwoofer is actually louder than with the filter ON. With the filter ON I was not getting the same amount of bass I was getting with my old Technics DVD-A10 with DVD-Audio discs. It was like the Denon was redirecting the dedicated LFE information to the main speakers (which I had set all to Large anyway). To me this doesn't sound like BM unless you definitely set all the speakers to small. Since I have large all around, I don't need BM - so I think until I find out EXACTLY what this filter is really doing, I will leave it off since this is the way my DVD-Audio discs played with my previous player which did not do BM for DVD-Audio discs at all.

What is the most puzzling thing is that between the manual and the on-line tech paper, the description of when or why you should use this filter is conflicting. It would seem that when you play Chesky discs, since the LFE channel is actually a "full range" height channel, you would want to re-direct the LFE information to the main speakers and that is what it seems the filter does in the ON position (which is factory default). Putting the filter in the OFF position (which requires you to navigate into the menus since it isn't the default), increases the LFE output on DVD-A discs to what I feel is "correct" based on my experience with my previous DVD-A player. Yet the literature about this filter in the manual, etc. seems to controvert my assumption and read of what this feature is for. :confused:

I am a bit confused, and I really don't want to keep going in and out of the on-screen menus for each and every disc to find out which filter setting is best for each. That is ergonomically unfriendly.

Anyway, maybe DenonJeff can elaborate.

Thanks,

Mike
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post #193 of 662 Old 04-13-2003, 11:44 AM
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Mike,

"With the filter ON I was not getting the same amount of bass I was getting with my old Technics DVD-A10 with DVD-Audio discs."

I believe the 3800 (and 9000 and probably the upcoming 2900), with it's BM active ( Filter ON and therefore using the 32 bit audio processor), outputs SW volume 10 dB down from the other channels. There is some "standards" reason for this and Denon is not the only manufacturer to build this in, as I remember, and there has been a lot of discussion of this on various threads. This 10 dB down may be what you have noticed.

One way to compensate for this is to use BM to set all the other channels 10 dB down to match this SW built-in level reduction and just run your A/V main level 10 dB higher. This gets you BM active and SW volume matching the others.

Phil
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post #194 of 662 Old 04-13-2003, 11:53 PM
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Can I really see a DVI output on the 2900 on the Denon Japan website?
Check this out for yourselves on the 'Whats New?' page on the Denon Japan website. The picture of the back panel of the 2900 shows an extra connector that looks like a DVI output that is absent on the US Denon website picture.
Can anyone verify this blurry apparition?!

Maybe this will be implemented in Australia or Europe also.
If so I may upgrade the clunky temparamental old 2800 (if the 2900 or 3900 prove to be free of the problems that plague the 2800 and 3800.

Interesting indeed!
Dan.

AussieDan the AV Man
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post #195 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 04:49 AM
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Hi,

I just got back from a 10 day trip and found all this new info on the 2900 to be very interesting. Going through the thread, some questions remain:

1) When I buy a PAL/European 2900, will it support both PAL and NTSC progressive out of the box, like the Arcam DV88 Plus? If not, how to apply a region hack? Will it be available here at the end of the month/beginning of May too?

2) Any thoughs on the possibility of having a 2900 modded with SDI output?

3) Where can I download the specs on the RS-232 interface? I'm especially interested to learn what information I can get back from the 2900 through its serial port.
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post #196 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 06:24 PM
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Here is the picture from the Japan website of what looks like a dvi output next to the component outputs.....
LL

AussieDan the AV Man
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post #197 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aussiedan
Here is the picture from the Japan website of what looks like a dvi output next to the component outputs.....
aussiedan- my guess is that we are seeing the promised 21-pin SCART connection that will be on European models. According to the owner's manual, it is to be located at about that location. This would be my guess, especially since DenonJeff stated that there would be no DVI on the 2900.
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post #198 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 07:00 PM
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Yojimbo75,
I think it is way too small for a scart plug unless there are much smaller scarts than I am familiar with. The only other possibility I can think of is an RGB plug (PC style 15 pin plug)??
Dan

AussieDan the AV Man
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post #199 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 07:54 PM
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Thought you guys might be interested in this:

Hello Luis,

Thanks for your e-mail, and for shopping the Crutchfield web site.

In answer to your question about the Denon DVD-2900, I have great news!
We should be receiving them in stock around May 15, 2003. You can check
out this great product by pointing your browser here:

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/P...p?i=033DVD2900


The link didnt work for me (probably still to early) but now I have a date to plan around! :D Im counting down the days!

Luis S

"With great power comes great responsibility"
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post #200 of 662 Old 04-14-2003, 11:03 PM
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Hi DenonJeff!

When will the DVD-2900 be available in Canada?
How much will it be in CDN$ (MSRP)?

If I buy a unit from the US or the Internet will Denon Canada honour the warranty?

Thanks for your great support!

Nemo
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post #201 of 662 Old 04-15-2003, 03:31 AM
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The connector you're seeing looks like a D5 connector i.e. the japanese equivalent of the euro scart..I'm sure euro models will have RGB scart as on previous models.

Regards,
Ian Guinan
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post #202 of 662 Old 04-15-2003, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aussiedan
Yojimbo75,
I think it is way too small for a scart plug unless there are much smaller scarts than I am familiar with. The only other possibility I can think of is an RGB plug (PC style 15 pin plug)??
Dan
I am not very familiar with the scart connectors so I was basically guessing. It sounds like Ian might have the answer. DVI would be a nice bonus.

Quote:
The connector you're seeing looks like a D5 connector i.e. the japanese equivalent of the euro scart..I'm sure euro models will have RGB scart as on previous models.
Ian- That would make sense. Thanks for the info.
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post #203 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Glen,

Stacey will have the definitive test results shortly on the Y/C delay. We know about it and I know my guys are doing their best to make sure all is right with this player.

To all about the 'Filter''

Phil's responses have been quite good regarding the confusion of tthe Filter Switch in our players. Here is the answer I received from Japan:

"Filter Off is for DVD-A 5.1, DD, dts and SACD for Multi-Channel playback where all channels are 0db ( or where you set them). The 'On' setting does indeed drop SACD down 15dB and DVD-A down 10dB and the reason is for AVRs that cannot change their LFE volumes on the analog inputs and between other input sources - note the LFE levels stay at proper level whether DD, dts, DVD-A or SACD coming out of the player." BM is in place depending on your settings in the speaker config, even if you select 'On' and the others are blacked out.

It might still be confusing, however use your ears and select which works best for your particular system.

NO DVI on the 2900!!....

The Japan version uses a 'D2' connector that is the standard for their market.

I don't know the particulars for the European version and would care not to speculate...

Canada should get theirs soon after ours, which appears to be any day now - please keep in mind that the dealers won't see units for a couple of weeks yet.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #204 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 11:17 AM
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DenonJeff,

I really wish the 2900 has aspect ratio scaling for all my non-16x9 letterboxed DVDs. After I did my taxes, I feel the urge to splurge and not limit myself to a $400 player, BUT it sounds like the 2900 won't cut it for that must have feature. I don't suppose there's anyway that this feature can be added via a firmware update, is there?

Thanks.

_Man_
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post #205 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Man,

Not that I am aware of at this time, I will however ask when I visit in the next month.

Regards,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #206 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 11:31 AM
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Thanks.

BTW, in case it was not clear from an earlier post, pretty much all I'm asking is for the 4:3 shrink image to be allowed to expand size-wise by ~1.25x (for 1.66:1 films) and ~1.33x (for 1.85:1 films) via the zoom function w/out the kind of side cropping (forced by the 4:3 framing/side bars) described by Phil for the 3800.

Since I don't know what chip the 2900 and 3800 uses for their scaling/zooming functions, I have no idea whether its possible at all. But for example, I'm pretty sure it's easy to do w/ the Philips 963sa, which uses the Faroudja fli23xx chip.

Anyway, thanks again.

_Man_
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post #207 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 01:40 PM
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"Jeff,
Thanks for your update. Can you tell me if Y C delay has been corrected?.
One of your earlier threads said that the 2900 would pass any test thrown at it. Also will all dealers in the Long island area have shipments of the first batch?.
Thanks
Glen"

Jeff, be careful with your words - as above - regarding the 2900! That "Chroma, 4:2:0 ICP" test from Shootout 3 seems tough to pass without a Genesis FLI22/3XX deinterlacing chip on board to mask(?) it, or a special filter circuit designed-in like the IScan Ultra Pro uses. This "Chroma, 4:2:0 ICP" test did NOT treat many non-Faroudja (Genesis) players well at all. ;)

Also you mentioned ...... "Stacey will have the definitive test results shortly on the Y/C delay. We know about it and I know my guys are doing their best to make sure all is right with this player."

Are you talking about the 2900? If so, I HOPE any good results from this 2900 work bleeds over into a firmware patch to correct Y/C Delay on the 3800 too - so I can remove my extra 19 feet of Pr/Pb video cable I'm using to get rid of it on my 3800. :)

(It's mandatory of course to get rid of Y/C Delay right out of the shute with the 2900 - it would be a shame to compromise fine background image detail with too much Y/C Delay in the 2900.)

Phil
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post #208 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Phil,

I am talking about the 2900 regarding y/c delay. What I was trying to say was my engineers are working on all product to pass any test, that's working, not a definitive would. My hope it does, but I am the first to admit we don't live in a land called perfect!

Regasrds,

Jeff Talmadge
Director, Product Development & Systems Integration
DENON Electronics (USA), LLC
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post #209 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 04:09 PM
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Mai, just get an Iscan Ultra video processor like I did. It has aspect ratio control.
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post #210 of 662 Old 04-16-2003, 04:20 PM
 
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Is there any difference in the PQ on the Denon 3800 vs. the 2900? Also, is the only diff. between the two players SACD capability?
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