Denon DVD-5900 thread... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1128 Old 10-08-2003, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Men. I should campaign against Arnold. I'm getting more popular then him! People are doing a psycho-analysis of everything I post in here. Wow! Arnold beware... "I'll be back!""

All those advanced members running after me across the forums... It's alot more then I deserve.

But I was able to reach my goal... to make people talk about the 5900...

I'm sorry to say it again, I know you don't like it but:

The 5900 is the BEST out-there! It's a free world. I can say what I want, because a forum is for people to discuss and SHARE teir opinions. For me the 5900 IS THE BEST OUT THERE!

BTW Free (or Phil).

When you are saying: "You are so full of crap!!" I think you are discrediting yourself alot more then me. I've never said anything like this to you. After 1998 posts, you should know better... I think noone deserves those remarks no matter what they say. We are here for fun, because we share the same passion, don't you forget it... You should learn to respect other people opinions, and don't take it personnally...

For my 2000th post I am going to say the last I am going to say on this subject. I said that you are full of crap because you have misquoted what has been said about your claim that the 5900 beats the Bravo without even seeing it. It is a free world and you can say what you want, but don't expect to get the respect of anyone here even if the 5900 turns out to be the best in the UNIVERSE!! It is all the way you have gone about it and the way you handled the criticism. I have now realized that you are just an attention seeker and just live to stir up trouble, I am dissapointed in myself that I took your bait (and it obviously was bait) and wasted my time when I can see that there is no reasoning with you.

I am done...say what you want from now on, I don't care!

Phil
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post #92 of 1128 Old 10-08-2003, 09:45 PM
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Kevinca1, please not the old "Denon" bashing claims again. No one is bashing Denon here at all. Most everyone agrees that this player is an exciting entry into multi-player sweepstakes and hopes Denon has indeed grabbed the brass ring here. That said, a few probing questions is not a flame war.

Expletive, congratulations! It's good to hear that you are finding the 5900 to be a great player. I've been waiting a long time for a DVD player that does an excellent job (doesn't have to be the ultimate) with audio in all formats, and has a video section that doesn't display any bugs or defects. So far, the preliminary opinions here are pointing in that direction. A friend of mine may be getting one to review, and if he does, I may be able to get a look at it under very well controlled conditions.

I'm already beginning to plan on finding a way to afford this beast, as long as a major flaw doesn't surface after it's been out for a month or two.

Now, Levesque, you can say whatever you want, but don't get pissed if you don't get a lot of cheering from the crowd. There are so many ways to say exactly what you want without the hype. Your enthusiasm is appreciated and the more fun we can have here, the better, but you're not going to gain respect by acting like your being unfairly singled out. People are simply calling you on your statements and you are becoming defensive. Take the hints and move on, no one is persecuting you here. If the 5900 holds up to the scrutiny of AVS members and becomes one of say.. the five best DVD players made, that would be a great achievment and a feather in Denon's cap. And if you indeed do get a Qualia, you'd have one amazing home theater and be one very happy movie watcher! No jealousy on my part, I hope that happens for you.
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post #93 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 02:20 AM
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Woah - there is some harsh words on this thread. I would suggest toning it down a notch for more constructive "deconstruction" of Levesque's bold claims about the 5900.
I am a huge Denon fan an continually hope that they turn out great products. I, like many others on the forums, appreciate them listening to our critiques and striving to address all of the shortcomings that have plagued many of their own products (and a great many competing products).
When it comes to DVD players, there are factors that are beyond any manufacturer's controls. All of the traditional "audiophile" engineering principals utilized in a flagship product like the Denon DVD9000 could overcome bugs and shortcomings in its digital electronic components. I have been somewhat disappointed with the DVD9000, but I still hold Denon in high regard for obvious reasons.
Levesque, I guess that I am viewing the DVD5900 with some aprehension due to the fact that there really hasn't been a "flawless" player out there. After all, Denon did specifically claim that the upcoming DVD9000 and 3800 were "chroma bug free", only to have to remove this claim when it was discovered that these player did not address the most talked about flaw about most of the progressive scan dvd players on the market. The audio section of the 9000 is impressive as one would expect from Denon who has been specializing in hi fi audio for 90 years. But progressive scan picture performance is something that all manufacturers are novices.
In the end, when it comes to PQ, the most robust transport and audio/video DACs in the world will yeild very marginal returns.
I can understand the general assumption that the 5900 is probably better than the Bravo. I would put my money on the DVD5900 as well. I think that there is a strong curiosity as to whether Bravo and 5900's dvi output may yeild very similar results in pq.
I am personally ready to purchase this player based on what is said on these forums as well as the secret's assessment of it. I will assume that it's DVI pq is as good as a dvi output SHOULD be and not worry about "diminishing" returns compared to the D1.. (Loyal to Denon and need it to mate with the 5803)
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post #94 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Matallicafreak, when you compared the 2900 to the D1, did you use the D1's DVI out?
Yes
FREAK!

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post #95 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 03:55 AM
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oh man, somebody find a massive problem in the 5900, so I don't talk myself into replacing the 2900 I got this year, lol.


:D
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post #96 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 05:11 AM
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As an audiophile with many posts on the Audio Asylum "Digital" board(Walter see registered system)I plan to get a 5900 for my upgraded midlevel HT system upstairs because of its PQ; and a Marantz dv8400 for my 25k dedicated stereo room downstairs. Levesque's assesment of its picture quality is convincing as he has some legitimate comparisons and is an obvious videophile. My guess is the Marantz with its discrete output stage is a significantly better audio player for dvd-a and sacd than the 5900. They use different dacs(Burr Brown for the Denon, Cirrus for the Marantz and each has their proponents; But the Cirrus dacs will best fit into my boutique vintage tube system which can handle the upper mid range energy content). I could care less about either's cd playback since I have a Chord DAC64, but am interested to see if the Marantz transport can replace a dedicated Audio Alchemy transport. Probably not. Here is where the bulky Denon might have an advantage over the Marantz.
With only a 20' tv for music dvd in my stereo room a DVI output is obviously overkill but important for my ISF calibrated Hitachi 51S500 upstairs. Each user has their own requirements.
A word of advice to Levesque regarding the Audio Asylum digital board. Any audio claims regarding the 5900 will be taken very lightly unless you can make direct comparisons. Audiophiles can instantly detect a videophile amongst them.
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post #97 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 05:36 AM
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Mattalicafreak: "I am running the 2900 and the bravo D1. I must say, flame if you will, I am not very impressed with the D1. I calibrated both with avia and the D1 consistently has a less 3D picture, and a slight bit of, I am not sure how to describe it but contrasted look too it. In LOTR:TT when the tree guy is walking around (the chapter when they tell him to go south) I almost wince it is so ugly! I switch to the 2900 and it is an improvement in picture depth. MF! Well, I guess that's what financing is for!
FREAK!"
____________________________________________________________ _

Can't see any reason to flame anything about that statement. You've compared the DVI out from the Bravo to the component out of the 2900 and found the 2900 looks better. You mentioned that you calibrated both players with Avia. Is it possible that the TV/pj you're using needed separate calibrations for the differences between signal types? If I'm not mistaken, most of the posts I've noticed have said the DVI out of the Bravo tops the progressive outs of other machines. Not necessarily because of some inherent quality of the Bravo, just because a DVI connection is a purer input.
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post #98 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 05:52 AM
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it's Metallicafreak dude,
My pj allows for different calibrations for each input and each input can have different calibrations for each signal types.
FREAK!

3X SUPERBOWL CHAMPION PATRIOTS!
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post #99 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 06:40 AM
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Hi, JackG's wife here.
I'm tying to keep up with everything there is to know about this new $1600 "toy" (aka the 5900) that has made it's way into my home. Maybe this weekend I'll actually sit down and fiddle with it. Could someone please post a link to the SECRETS site or article that is being refered to? Thanks!
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post #100 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 06:56 AM
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M.Freak, that's cool. I'm glad to hear that progressive signals can equal or better a DVI input, as I'm using a non DVI Toshiba HDTV for the next 4-12 months before getting a pj. It will be interesting to see what happens when more people have compared various DVI outs from different manufacturers.

Mrs. G, here's the link to Secrets of Home Theater's website. I haven't time to find the direct link at the moment, hope you can find what your looking for.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html
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post #101 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 07:28 AM
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My understanding is DVI works better, or shows more improvement, on fixed pixel displays such as DLP, LCD, or Plasma.

That said, I haven't seen a whole lot of difference in broadcast HD between a Sammy 151, a Dishnet 6000, both non-DVI, and a Sammy 351, which has DVI output.

For TV, at least, the quality of the signal seems to be the most important factor...I suspect the same is true with DVD. GIGO.

Have been listening more to my 5900 audio. Really a great sound, though I can't wait to hear it through a better amp. ( I have a 3803...will upgrade when they replace the 5803.)

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post #102 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 07:44 AM
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Wait... Kris from Secrets was sent a prototype of the 5900 for a prelim. assessments, so I doubt that any info on Secrets's website is available about this player. Also, the prototype did not have DVI or the analog audio active, so he only got to view materials thru component and sound thru digital domain.

He has very good things to say about it, but this was a prototype and we all know how final production can change.

Daniel
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post #103 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 08:25 AM
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Thank you Walter for your input. Can you please post your observations on the Marantz and Denon here or the Asylum? I would also like to hear from Jim Pearce on comparisons with your Esoteric DV-50...hope all is well with you Jim.

Ken

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post #104 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 08:40 AM
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Expletive,
You compared the 5900 to the Tri-Vista and the Denon held it's own?
Very impressive. I be interested to hear further comments on the audio.
Thanx.

Audio_Walt,
Do you own the 8400 already or is this a planned purchase.
FWIW, I have it on good authority that the 5900 is superior to the 8400 in every way. But you will certainly want to check for yourself.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #105 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 08:55 AM
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Milt, the improvment in audio (from the 2900) must be attributed to the upsampling capabilities of the 5900 as well as the improved analog section. The sound is much more clear and defined. Instruments and vocals sound like individual pieces rather than a montage (if that makes sense). The high end seems to have more detail as well more 'air.' With the 2900, I was was using my Arcam AV8 as a DAC and just using the 2900 as a transport for 2 channel audio, but now the analog output of the 5900 using the AV8 as a preamp sounds much better. (The AV8 has excellent DACS so using still it as a DAC even sounds better than with the 2900, probably becuase of AL24+). I am one of those people that feels like they got a whole new CD collection, worth every penny.

I'm playing this through...
Arcam AV8
Denon 5900 (duh)
Sherbourn 7/2100
B&W Nautilus 803 and HTM1,SCM1
Monitor Audio FB212 (I do use the bass enhancer)
Kimber Tonik Interconnects
Kimber 8pr speaker cable biwired to speakers
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
Toshiba 50HX81 50" Cinema Seried HD Monitor

John

P.S. Did I mention how amazing the video quality is? :)
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post #106 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Milt99
Expletive,
You compared the 5900 to the Tri-Vista and the Denon held it's own?
Very impressive. I be interested to hear further comments on the audio.
Thanx.

Audio_Walt,
Do you own the 8400 already or is this a planned purchase.
FWIW, I have it on good authority that the 5900 is superior to the 8400 in every way. But you will certainly want to check for yourself.
Milt99,
These are planned purchases only. Is your "good authority" an audiophile with a big rig? tell me more. For my stereo room all I care about is a dvd player with the best 2 channel SACD and DVD-A. For my system my guess is that its the Marantz.
If the Denon is as good as the entry level Tri Vista , I would be very surprised. It might sound as good on midfi equipment but top quaity, finely tuned stereo systems can instantly discern huge differences.
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post #107 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 12:19 PM
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Hey "Jersey" , damn nice system you've got there. Please continue posting your observations, that system should be revealing enough to make a fair judgment. Hope you enjoy your 5900 to the max.
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post #108 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 12:35 PM
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CAN some one pm me, or post who has these units for 1599.00?


thanks
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post #109 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 12:38 PM
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With all this throat jumping going on in this thread I thought I was reading another article about Roy and his little tiger run in ;)
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post #110 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 02:35 PM
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I DO have the 5900 and it seems to me that there are alot of people in here with too much spare time on their hands. When I have time to be objective and thorough about this unit I'll try to give my two cents worth.Comparisons on a message board are almost an oxymoron.
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post #111 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 03:29 PM
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Jack, welcome to the forum. After reading lots of posts, you'll begin to see which posters opinions are very reliable. If Mr. Wiggles says he sees a particular anomaly, I'd say chances are 99% it's there. If QQQ makes a statement, you know it comes from a lot of real world experience. These guys and many others make this forum such a vital resource of information, I'm glad they have enough spare time to post about something I'm interested in, it can save me from a lot of headaches... ;)
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post #112 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Expletive
I loved the 2900 but the 5900 really destroys it. The sound quailty of redbook audio is on par with anything I've heard (the most respected I've heard are the arcam and the tri-vista).
John
Expletive:

I had the 2900 but just sold it with thoughts of upgrading to the 5900. I also have the Arcam CD23T, which I use for Redbook with great results. Question: how does the 5900 do with two-channel analog audio (Redbook and hi-res formats)?

I did a comparison here of the 2900 and the CD23T:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=cd23

I found the 2900 good but not great with Redbook, compared to the CD23T. I have far more CDs than DVDs and SACDs, and I don't think this will change anytime soon. (I've looked at all the hi-res audio disks and can only find about 10 that I find worth buying. Meanwhile I still buy about five CDs per month.)

Does anyone else have thoughts on the 5900's analog audio performance? I'm ultimately looking for a single source player, not separate CD and "universal" players.
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post #113 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 03:45 PM
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I currently have the 2900 and had thought about upgrading to the 5900. I use my DVD player for 98% movies and 2% music. I own 1 whole DVD-A disc and 1 SACD. I want great video performance, but having DVD-A and SACD is an added bonus (just to know it's there if needed). I thought about getting a 3800 before I picked up my 2900, but was scared away by the Y/C delay. The only reason I got the 2900 is that I was able to pick it up for $649 and thought it was too good of deal to pass up at the time. If I ever wanted to sell it on ebay, it would sell in that ballpark used. I am interested in the 5900, but can't justify $1600 for a DVD player. I guess I will have to wait until the video performance of this player comes down to a price range I find acceptable ($600-$700 range).


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post #114 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 07:06 PM
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Gregeas,

I would classify the 5900 as more than just a 'bit better' in analog audio performance than the 2900. Everytime I turn on this player to play CDs I instantly get that little thrill when I realize the how much better my CDs sound compared to with the 2900. Like I stated in an earlier post, the Arcam AV8 has a fantastic set of DACS, this player has me going back to analog becuase of the sound. This player still sounds a bit better than the 2900 through the Arcam (upsampling is my guess) but the analog has a more 'organic' feel to it. Warm without loss of detail, inner or otherwise. At least an order of magnitude better in analog than the 2900, maybe one and a half or two.

John
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post #115 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 07:17 PM
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Walt,
Yes, I trust this person's opinion and would not bother with the 8400
on that alone BUT, you should listen for yourself.
I have my own definition of what "sounds good" as I'm sure do you.

I'm seriously considering the 5900 but have never been knocked
out by Denon sound previously. (Before anyone thinks I'm knocking
Denon, I'm not. If fact I still own a Denon turntable that I purchased in
1979. Still performs flawlessly.)

I'm very interested in the McCormack universal player but they
have no history AFAIK with video. The McCormack will also be
~1k more than the Denon which is really pushing the limit but
if the past is any indicator the UDP-1 will sound very nice.

If the 5900 turns out to be solid, I'll definitely buy from a store
with a liberal return policy. To me the extra savings from buying
grey market are not worth the possible return/service hassle.

HTH

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #116 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 08:10 PM
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Expletive...

When you say "analog" are you referring to the source material, or the settings on your 5900...

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I'm getting dizzy trying to follow this and other threads, and just want to get the best sound out of my 5900.

Do you use source direct?...I'm playing through an AVR 3803...what settings would you use on SACD vs Redbook?

Anyone feel free to pitch in here...Thanks. :)

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post #117 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 11:38 PM
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Anyone have a chance to compare the PQ of the 5900 ands 9000?b
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post #118 of 1128 Old 10-09-2003, 11:42 PM
 
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moonhawk: apparently the best sound outta the 5900 comes from the 9000?
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post #119 of 1128 Old 10-10-2003, 03:57 AM
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Analog refers to the connection method to my preamp processor. I am using the analog outs of the 5900 hence the DACs in the 5900 rather than the AV8. I dont use source direct currently. I dont think anyone fully understands it and I believe it would require another d/a a/d conversion for BM.
I turn off source direct because it sets all speakers to large which i dont want. I have source direct OFF, bass enhancer ON, and crossover set to 60hz. Stereo material uses the sub corssed over at 60hz. SACD uses the same settings tho i believe the crossover for SACD is fixed internally at 80hz.

Elbert, Jeff from denon said that the 5900 'sets new standards in picture quality' If thats any indication.

John
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post #120 of 1128 Old 10-10-2003, 04:08 AM
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The product sheet states the 5900 has 2 digital audio inputs (1 optical/1 coaxial) but the picture on their website doesn't show that to be true. Can someone tell me if the units shipping have this feature or not. This would be ideal for someone like myself that prefers to have the source player do all the decoding/processing while using an analog multichannel preamp.

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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