Denon DVD-5900 thread... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Just finishing playing with my new 5900 for 2 days. All I can say is wow! I was all itching to post my 1st impressions, but AVS was down!

This thing is so HUGE it's even bigger in size then my Bryston 4BSST! Prepare your rack for a big piece of equipment, maybe 30% bigger then my Denon DVD-3800. I can’t fit it in my custom made rack! If you don't believe me go see those photos I took:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=340501

Nice box, with a Denon link cable and a Firewire cable both included.

I still have my 3800 to compare in-house. My friend brought his 2900 home. A lot of comparison to do!

So much tweaking, it's unbelievable. Cannot list all the tweaks in that unit, it would take 3 pages long... But everything is there, even chroma delay adjustment! Black level, white level, noise levels, +10 db sub out, etc. Everything is there. I didn’t even start tweaking, and did use it with all the defaults on. More tweaking tomorrow!

Because the DVI-D is not already activated (it will be in 1 week or 2 probably now that it is approved...), I have access only to the component video outputs. Sorry for all the DVD-3800 owners, but there is a new king in town! I've never seen an image so 3D like and I change my source every 6 months! Awesome black levels, details, no softness at all. All sharp and clear. The image is crisper and more sharp then the 3800. The colors are more vibrant and accurate. Black is black and white is white, and I didn’t even start to tweak all the video settings adjustment!!! I don't believe it. What a nice surprise. Just imagining what the DVI upscaling will be able to produce and I'm drooling on my keyboard! There is so much tweaking possible with that unit, that I feel like having an ISF calibration for free!

For DVD-A, it's a little bit in front of the 3800. For SACD, it's a good step-up in front of the 2900!

I think we finally have a really good DVD-A/SACD combo! Play boths format incredibly well.

I think that for once Denon did actually delivered the goods. The 5900 perform like a flagship unit. Video performance is a good step-up over the 3800 and the 2900. For audio performance, it’s a BIG step-up in front of the 3800 and the 2900. IMHO opinon, and for my ears, for sure…

I just used everything in the default settings. But know I will compare the source direct and multi settings of the 5900 with my Anthem DAC's and DSP. I still have to compare the sound when the Anthem is doing all the tweaks (source direct) and when it's the Denon controlling everything.

Wow. What a unit. Awesome value. If you have the money, don’t settle for the little brother 2900, but go for the 200 pounds gorilla of a big brother and jump on the 5900!

And I'm so glad because we will finally see the end of those thousands of threads on the Bravo D1 (just kidding)... we now have a quality DVI player...

Beware Pioneer Elite and Marantz... there is a new king in town.

Being one of the first to own that beauty, I think I should start the Denon 5900 thread. So let me start it. I have a lot of questions…

1) DVI connection. Should be activated soon, we all know that now. So where can I order a DVI cable to run it from my 5900 to my 40XBR800 (I mean a good internet site). Where I live, we can’t even find a decent component video cable! So imagine finding a DVI cable!

2) The SACD filter. Should I leave it at the default of 50khz or use the 100khz with the Anthem AVM20?

3) Can someone explain in more details all the progressive modes and what they do: Auto 1 Auto 2 and Video 1, 2 and 3.

4) I would like to have a more detail explanation of the Source Direct setting…

Comparison with the Denon 3800:

DVD's are only mild and almost at room temperature after working for hours (remember those burning hot DVD's coming from the 3800?). The Y/C delay is easily adjustable. With AVIA, I just had to put the delay at -1 on my 5900 to have a perfect Y/C delay .:D

Hope more question and answers will flow through here.:D
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post #2 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 07:27 PM
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Alain, I read your abreviated version on Spot and this posting is much better yet. I would almost give you my e-mail address in order that your wife could reassure my wife how good the 5900 really is . My dealer tells me that I will have my 5900 by Wednesday. This is the United States and out in the boonies so the Canadians aren't the only happy souls. I have no idea if this shipment will be activated for DVI. Will let you know as I begin to get set up. Thanks for your impressions and enthusiasm.
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post #3 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 07:36 PM
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Levesque

I am glad to see your post.
I am waiting for my local dealer to to receive stock on the 5900.
Can wou say how the SACD performance compares to the Sony
Audio only units?

Larry
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post #4 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 09:04 PM
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Just a quick question until secrets come out with a review. Are the layer changes on DVDs seemless or does it pause for a second? Great to see you enjoying your unit and I look forward to getting one myself.
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post #5 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 09:17 PM
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Levesque:

Is the 5900 $1000 better than 2900?
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post #6 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 09:44 PM
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Just got mine yesterday...

I'm afraid I don't have the technical knowledge of many on this forum, and I've had no real time to do anything but hook it up and listen to a few cuts...

The sound is awesome, though I'm only listening through a Denon 3803 and Vandersteen 2-Ce Speakers.

The unit itself is exremely solid, the tray seems a lot sturdier and smoother than the 2900.

Hudson's in Albuquerque had a few more, don't know if they're spoken for or not.

I'm quite pleased so far, can't wait for the DVI..

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post #7 of 1128 Old 10-04-2003, 10:18 PM
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I'm seriously thinking about picking up this player. I forgot what the deal was for 3800/9000/AVR5803 owners when sending this player in. I remember that, if you had both the dvd player and AVR, shipping was paid for by Denon.

I don't want to purchase this player, only to have to ship it out again. We'll wait and see in the next week or so.
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post #8 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 02:44 AM
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LEVESQUE,

What brand cables are you using for SACD/DVD-A?

Daniel
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post #9 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 04:47 AM
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Levesque,

Any info on the redbook performance of the dvd5900 (next to 2900 or others)?
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post #10 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 04:47 AM
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Levesque,

Any info on the redbook performance of the dvd5900 (next to 2900 or others)?
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post #11 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using Bryston interconnects all around (cheap and dirty, but doing a fine job...).

I'm actually in a listening marathon of DVD-A and SACD (I bought this player to listen to those particularly), so I only had time to listen to 3 redbook CD's. I can easily say that the sound is up there with any good dedicated CD player. My HDCD's are stunning when well recorded, like Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances/ Vocalise/ Etudes-tableaux (Eiji Oue), that is an incredible recording.

I can confirm that my 5900 out-perform even my 3800, that wasn't a slouch either. My friend left with the 2900 before we could compare CD's (he brought it to compare DVD-A and SACD). And there the 5900 sweep the floor with the 2900. For SACD and DVD-A, there is alot of clean and accurate bass, crystal clear sound where you can hear and "spot" any instrument playing.

The Blue Man Group DVD-A is absolutely stunning compare to the 3800. The 5900 gives me some sounds I didn't even know were there! My wife did sit with me to listen to all this disk, and she absolutely agree that the difference was there. She usually sits for 2 minutes then leave... imagine it's the 1st time she did listen to a complete recording besides me! And I was listening to it very LOUD, but because the sound is so clear and crisp, she didn't find it fatiguing (compare to the 3800 and the 2900.

But after all is said, for me the biggest improvement is the picture. Wow! What a nice surprise! How they were able to improve over the 3800 is a mystery to me. The 3800 was one of the best picture I have seen, but the 5900 is sharper, and the blacks are so deep, it's scary. I hope the DVI connection will be in the same performance league has the analog part.

I hope some owners will share their tricks with us after a while, because there is so much tweaking possible, that I don't really know where to start! (I feel like doing an ISF calibration directly on my player LOL). I just fix the Y/C delay in 2 minutes with AVIA. Scary...
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post #12 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 05:19 PM
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My Q and your A from "the other Forum"...

---------------

Hi Alain,

Thank you for the post and the info.. I believe this is the player I have been searching for over the last three years..

Questions please:

1) Do you see any combing on video material, know to be problematic??

2) Do you see any sign of the CUE or Chroma Bug as most call it ??

3) Do the DVDs get scorching hot as they do with the DVD3800 ??

4) Do you have any discs with bad layer changes, and does this player handle those better ??

5) Do you have any problems with freezes, or lockups or skipping ?? Can it play discs that are dirty or scratched, LIKE ALL Rental DVDs usualy are !!??!??!!

What other DVD players have you owned that you are comparing this one to??

Many, many thanks !!!

-- John

---------------------------------

Your answers:

John. I can answer some of your questions.

1) Don't know. Maybe you could give me more indications of what I should look for...

2) No chroma bug for now. I was one of the early adoptor of the 3800, so I know what to look for...

3) The DVD's are coming out mildly warm, almost at room temperature. Big difference compared with my burning hot DVD's coming from my 3800!

4) Yes. Asterix et Cleopatre (a french film) was giving problems to my 3800. Skipping freezing non-stop, with long layer changes. But no problemo with the 5900. It's the first film I've tried because of all the headaches it was giving me!

5)I didn't rent any film for now. So I can't say. But no skipping or freezing after 5 films. But my 3800 did start doing it after 1 month...so... finger cross!

I've owned a Toshiba 4 years ago, a JVC, the Denon 3800, and my dealer brought the 2900 2 days ago.
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post #13 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 05:20 PM
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OK gang, can some folks here recommend some common DVDs that have bad combing problems ??

Alo, can we recommend some DVDs that folks have had problems with freezing or skipping with other DVD players??

Didn't a lot of folks have problems wiht that Second Harry Potter movie the Chamber of Secrets ????

-- Cain
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post #14 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Good idea Cain. I can put the 5900 to the test if peoples can give me some well-known problematic titles.
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post #15 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 09:44 PM
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Somebody please talk me out of this :) Where's the Denon 5900 problems thread when you need one. In four days I may be actually joining this madness and getting one of these beasts. Why I need this much DVD player I don't know, and I don't even know if it's DVI output will work with my Hitachi TWX RPTV's DVI input. Ah well, if it doesn't, the good thing about buying at the Good Guys, is you can take it back for a full refund. You pay a little more going the full retail route but peace of mind is worth it to me.
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post #16 of 1128 Old 10-05-2003, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEVESQUE

2) The SACD filter. Should I leave it at the default of 50khz or use the 100khz with the Anthem AVM20?

The answer is component-dependent. I'd ask the manufacturer(s) of all your downstream components how well each component copes with 100Khz content (re: rumor has it some components can be damaged/cause damage with high frequency content (e.g. stability issues with certain amps ?)

Some will swear up and down about the benefits of allowing more than 50 Khz. Haven't really paid that close attention.

Personally, I'm looking for a decent DVD player where PQ is the highest priority, DVD-A capability is a distant second priority, and SACD is a non-issue (though the 5900 might actually beat out my Philips SACD1000 for MC SACD).
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post #17 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 12:45 AM
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levesque:

Can you comment on DVD-R compatability? Thanks very much on all the details, now that the heat issue seems resolved, only the DVD-R obstacle needs to be cleared!

Regards,
Gandalf
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post #18 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Gandalf.

I did use 2 DVD+R on my 5900 w/o problem (daughter birthday was shoot on a digicam then put on a DVD+R). So I can't say for DVD-R, but DVD+R are ok.

Oscar.

Quote:
Originally posted by oscar1

Personally, I'm looking for a decent DVD player where PQ is the highest priority
Then look no further my friend :D the PQ easily beats the 3800 and the 2900 that I had in-house. Denon did outperform themselves here, I still don't believe they actually improve the PQ over those 2 other players.

And the possibility to adjust the black level is doing miracle on my Toshiba 65HDX82 with an already perfect grey-scale (ISF'd). I see details in the blacks that were not there before...

Beav.

I did start this thread to be the "problems" thread for the 5900. But beeing the only one (or almost...) owning it, and finding no problems for now, it,s a "rave" thread instead. But be patient, I'm sure problems will show there ugly heads when more people will own that beauty.:( :(

I'm anxious to see the next Secrets Shoot-out. I think that we will have a new king for PQ! Secret reviewers, if you read this, I hope you will answer that bugging question too that I have (if they read this):

is it better to use an analog high-end 480p (5900) or to use a low-end 1080i upscaled (Bravo D1)? :confused:
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post #19 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I hope someone can point me toward internet sites where I could order a DVI cable to use with the 5900 when the interface will be activated.

Does someone knows the difference between all the 5 progressive modes?

The manual for the 5900 is the worst I've ever seen. I think Denon wants people to use the 5900 with all the default values on! The 5 progressive modes, source direct, and DVI upscaling are not explain at all in the manual, and I think they are essentials to use the 5900.

i would like to know what are the differences between contrast, brightness, and black level and white level adjustment. Hope someone could explain in details all the picture adjustment (over 15 possible) that are not explain in the manual.

the DVI settings are not well explian too... You can choose between 720p or 1080i, and you can choose between normal or enhanced black level. Is there any other adjustment possible?
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post #20 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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i did it. I just used the BM of the Denon instead of the AVM20 (since day 1 I was using Annalog-DSP in the AVM20 and source direct in the 5900). And what a difference! The BM is alot better then my AVM20 and outperform it in every way.

DVD-A and SACD are now what I was longing for. With the AVM20, I could spot the speaker that was playing, and the sound was really directionnal. Beeing a stero aficionado, I was finding it tough to adjust to this directionnality instead of the clean imaging of 2ch stero.

But the 5900 delivers the good. I can't spot any instrument now, the imaging is all around me, even over my heads, and the multichannels recording are not directionnal anymore, but a "whole". The AVM20 was doing well, but the different instruments were not blending well and were spacially localized to 1 speaker. With the 5900, it's like beeing in the middle, and you are not distract by a sound comnig from the side or the back, because it blend so well with the rest, that you are not distract by it, but in the middle of it. Bass is tighter and punchier, more musical. I finally have access to all the bass that was hidden in those recording.

I feel kind of sad for my thrusty AVM20... But I will go the analog-direct way now, and leave the 5900 do the awesome job it's doing with the new hi-rez format.

Chapeau Denon!
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post #21 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 09:09 AM
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What version of the '20's firmware are you running?
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post #22 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Firmware 2.10. I know there is a 2.11e disponible now, but haven't dowload it, because it,s only to fix minor flaws and a popping in the surround speaker that some users are having.... won't make a difference.
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post #23 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Beav. I'm ordering one right now! i just hope it will work with my Sony 40XBR800 and my Toshiba 65HDX82. Tough to know if it will all be compatible.

Can someone confirm that it will work with the Sony DVI interface?:confused: :confused:
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post #24 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 10:33 AM
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There was a problem posted at the DenonJeff thread and that was when you went to SACD source direct there's no BM.
Here's some quotes

Quote:
A perusal of the owner's manual for the 5900 makes me wonder if the player really supports the "Source Direct Digital Bass Management for SACD with 80 Hz crossover" shown on the website. When Source Direct is set to ON it appears that all speakers are set to large. Can you comment on this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Well, I have the 5900 installed now.
An excellent player all around
except for one issue.

When you turn on Source Direct for SACD
it automatically sets all speakers to large and then
disables the speaker size setting menu.
Oddly enough, the speaker distance menu
continues to function in source direct mode
(but I'm not sure if it does anything).
Annoyingly, when you get back out of SD mode,
it leaves all the speakers set to large.

Subs are working fine in every other mode,
but the subs are silent in SACD source direct mode
unless there is an LFE track (i.e. definitely no BM for
SACD in source direct mode).

I thought the Sony DSD chip Denon included in this machine
did do BM but not distance compensation.
According to the menu system, it's the other way around!

Jeff, is this just a glitch?
What bothers me is shouldn't Denon know this don't they test there products to see if what they say it does it actually does. Denon also said that there i.Link jitter technology was proprietary but they never tested it with other players to see if that was true. remember they also said the 2900 was chroma bug free but that ended up not being true. I don't know but if I was Denon I'd test my components before saying stuff that it doesn't do.

Daniel Smith

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake; you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else ... We are the all singing all dancing crap of the world.

- Tyler Durden
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post #25 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 11:27 AM
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Easy question (and probably less than exciting for most readers here) for anyone who's gotten the 5900...

Does the 5900 support playback resuming if you've put the unit into standby? IE, if you're watching a movie and have to stop it at some point, will the 5900 remember where you were on the DVD? Most players have this, but the 2200 and 2900 don't appear to.

As I said, many of you probably don't care, but it's little things like that that make the wife happy...

(I've tried downloading the manual, but it keeps telling me the pdf is corrupt).

Thanks!
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post #26 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Good idea Cain. I can put the 5900 to the test if peoples can give me some well-known problematic titles.
Any chance you have Disney's Beauty and the Beast? Disk 2, the extras disk, doesn't play AT ALL in a 3800. I'm curious if this has been corrected in the 5900.

-Steve
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post #27 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beav
Here's what I'll be getting.

http://www.bettercables.com/dviduallink.html
You won't need to buy one. The 5900 comes with a DVI and firewire cable.
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post #28 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 01:40 PM
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With regards to the quality of a digital cable, unlike an analog cable, as long as the cable works everything else about it is irrelevant.

unOFFICIAL D-Box FAQ here!
Hail to the King, baby!
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post #29 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have any DVI cable with my 5900! Strange. Do you really got one with yours? I only have a firewire and Denon-link cables...

BTW, DON'T put the 2nd Beauty and The Beast DVD in the 5900, I taught it would explode! Was making a grinding noise that I was hearing from 15 feet! Wow. Hope it's not damaging the machine... Scary. I think we know now that the problem wasn't fix.

It was a grinding noise, like something was rotating like crazy inside, and pulsating... The only way to stop this was to press off, because the drawer wasn't responding anymore...

First bug...:(
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post #30 of 1128 Old 10-06-2003, 04:36 PM
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That is funny that beauty and beast #2 disk wouldnt work on the 5900 when it does on the 2900.
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