Denon 5900 macroblocking favor - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1111 Old 12-16-2003, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I think a lot of what people are saying is macroblocking is definately compression artifacts, especially in backgrounds. But I will take a look at it.

No timeframe for testing as we haven't gotten a O-Scope yet.

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post #182 of 1111 Old 12-16-2003, 10:59 AM
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Kris,
It may definately be compression artifacts. It almost looks like a blown up video that you would see on your computer. (going from small screen to large screen when the video was made for small screen). Just kind of blotchy.

Not a big deal though. Just reporting what I have seen.

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post #183 of 1111 Old 12-16-2003, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Dave. Most DVD producers try to limit compression artifacts to foreground so it isn't as distracting. They figure the audiences attention will be on whatever the focus of the shot is, so backgrounds tend to be noisy a lot.

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post #184 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 11:01 AM
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For me the only macroblocking I can clearly see (on my Pio plasma) is with the VE disc test patterns. There are supposed to be just grey solid boxes/bars so I guess great opportunities for large compression. But then how come with my 45a, no such problem exists? Is it because the lowly
45a cannot pick up the subtle encoding differncese? Some video adjustments have been mentioned that can make the problem go away on the 5900, but which ones?

I have (relatively) more problems with the audio side of the player. Disc 2 of the Ultimate Platinum DVD - The DTS and DD demo tracks keep stuttering. Track 8 of the Fairport Convention DVDA Close to the Wind skips a little. But the most mysterious is the Jacintha's Jacintha is Her Name SACD. Yesterday when I tried to play it (after the machine has warmed up) the display showed 6 tracks with 0 mins and 0 secs while the disc actually has 10 tracks. It played the first 5 tracks alright but not from the 6th track onwards. During the entire time the display showed track 1 and 0 mins 0 secs. A few weeks ago I played this disc immediately after I turned on the machine and it seemed to play OK. I know a fellow member has no problems playing this disc at all but then my 45a has no problems playing all 3 discs.

Like I said before in another thread, I would not utter a word of complaint if I had only paid $1,600 (seems >97% of you guys did) for it. And if I had gotten it for less than $1,400, it can even sleep on my bed (though not every night), with or without the sprouse's approval.

BTW, does anyone know what the warning on page 11 of the manual is about?
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post #185 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 02:17 PM
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It's strange to me that some people don't consider the fact that the 5900 is quirky with some discs to be a big deal. Maybe the positives far outweigh the negatives for them. I would like to hear a comment from Denon regarding the 5900's inability to play some CD/SACD's. This must be at least the tenth time someone has said a certain disc plays perfectly on other players but not through the Denon.

What's up with this?
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post #186 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Unless the ability to play certain discs rings true for ALL owners then it is an anomoly with that certain player. I have only had one disc that would not play, Chicago V DVD-A. I asked John Kotches to try the same title on his player and he had no problems. Instances such as these can be the disc or the player. I have had LOTS of DVDs that wouldn't play on the Bravo but would play fine on other players. I have yet to have a single DVD movie, CD, or SA-CD not play and only 1 disc in my collection of DVD-As hasn't played.

I am not excusing the player, I am just not making a mountain out of a mole hill. When someone gives me something that is repeatable on every player then I will address it as I did the artifacting in the video essentials IRE windows.

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post #187 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 04:13 PM
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Kris,
Very good point. I have yet to have a CD or DVD not play in my player. The only thing close to that is a copy of VE, which took a while to load because the DVD itself was so cold (it had just come in the mail). Once it warmed up to room temperature, it played just fine.

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post #188 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 04:46 PM
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Kris, I understand and appreciate your perspective, but my point is there have been more than a few mentions of this difficulty in this post. I realize that unless a defect can be reproduced throughout the majority of players produced it may fall under the manufacturers radar. Nevertheless, it seems to me there are a few too many mentions of this problem for it to be overlooked by Denon. This forum is a good sampler for companies to gain valuable market research and feedback and this "disc X, Y and Z didn't play in my 5900"
talk worries me a bit as a prospective buyer.
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post #189 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 05:48 PM
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You dont want to be a beta tester Martin? It only cost's $1800 to sign up. ;)

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post #190 of 1111 Old 12-17-2003, 08:40 PM
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I've played quite a few discs (SACD, DVDA, DVDV, CD) with nary a problem to be found.

What has surprised me most with this player is its analog performance with DVDA and SACD. It's quite good sonically.

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post #191 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 05:50 AM
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I have aslo been playing with my 5900...mostly doing setup stuff and re-cal as I aslo took my system completely apart and re-wired everything.Added some new stuff and got rid of other stuff.

So far eveything I have thrown at or tried to do with the 5900 has been excellent. The player is very quiet..reads all the discs OK..... will get into the finer points of the unit during the holidays...SO FAR SO GOOD.
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post #192 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 06:03 AM
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I wonder what is the percentage of the owners out there that has not yet had a single problem so far. If a majority of the owners has at least one problem, is this a cause of concern for Denon? Or may be they are betting on the superior PQ will suppress all other minor (so they think) complaints? To me the inability to play certain discs is a major flaw particularly my 45a can play anything that I throw at it. I agree that this may not be a major problem (for Denon) if it only happens to a low percentage of the players. On the other hand just imagine your big screen TV won't show some of your favorite programs and you have to watch them on your 13-incher instead.

I wonder does the Lexicon RT-10 have similar quirks. It is merely about a grand more.
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post #193 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 06:40 AM
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Aren´t there disk-player compatability problems with all players to some extent. My Pio 737 can´t play Jeepers Creepers at all.

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post #194 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 07:28 AM
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I've played dozens of DVDs, dozens of Redbook CDs, and about 2 dozen SACDs on my 5900 and have never had a skip, a dropout, a stutter, a mechanism siezure, etc. The player has operated flawlessly since day one. The only problem I've seen is the subtitle popup issue on The Two Towers Extended Edition others here have described.
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post #195 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I am still trying to get that subtitile pop up anomally. I have tried about five times with no success. Seems odd that so many here can do it yet I can't.

I am meeting with Denon in January and I will bring it up with them but I probably can't recreate it for them.

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post #196 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 07:44 AM
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I've had at least ten DVD players and never had a disc that didn't play properly (unless the disc itself was damaged). So if most people have no trouble with the 5900, kudos should not be given, as that should be expected, especially from an expensive high end player. That's why I was concerned about many statements regarding disc playing difficulties mentioned here, as it's quite unusual, at least as far as my experience goes.

If say.. three of my favorite discs didn't play on a new $1500 player, I'd be pissed, not apologetic.
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post #197 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 08:42 AM
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Kris,
Do the following with the Two Towers. It has to be the extended addition playing in DTS-ES. It happens at around the 30-31.5 minute mark of disk one. (When the orcs want to eat Merry and Pippen). It happened to me last night. All I had to do was pause the movie and then rewind it one frame and the subtitle was gone. I think this may be a disk issue. I will take it to a friends today and see if I can recreate it.

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post #198 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried that exact version with that soundtrack a few times with no luck.

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post #199 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 11:13 AM
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Kris,
Very strange. I'll let you know what I find out when I try it on other players. I will also see if I can recreate it on mine by jumping to that chapter. Maybe it is something you have to play all the way through in order for it to appear or something. I'll keep you posted.

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post #200 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 11:47 AM
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I posted this a few days ago in another thread. I thought I would repost it here, since this is where problems like mine have shown up.
This CD (Sting, Sacred Love) contains SACD Surround, SACD Stereo, and CD versions on one disc. The SACD Stereo and CD versions always play fine. In other words, it only skips in the "Multi" mode. (The SACD Surround version of this disc contains an extended version of track 5 with 2 extra minutes which is awsome.)

Has anyone else that has experienced skipping tried playing in other modes if possible? Are the discs that skip all "hybrid" SACDs or DVD-A's? I wonder if this could have something to do with the "Multi" mode of this player.

Anyway, here is my original post:

I am on my second 5900. The first one had a problem with the DVI port.

On my first 5900, it played all SACDs with exceptional sound. Except for Stings, Sacred Love.

This SACD played fine for about 20 plays, and then started skipping at about half way through. Playing as a CD it worked fine. I returned it for a new copy and SACD played fine.

I received my new 5900, again, after about 20 plays of Sacred Love, it started skipping about half way through again.

This problem only occurs on the SACD version of the CD. The I have many other SACDs that all play fine.

Has anyone else had SACDs skipping on them? Is this just some kind of weird coincidence? Could it be that after X amount of hybrid CD plays, the SACD section wears out?
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post #201 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The idea of the SACD section of the player "wearing out" is a bit far fetched. We're only talking about a few components, none of which will exhibit wear. As far as this re-occuring, who knows. Could be a bunch of different issues.

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post #202 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 12:18 PM
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Sorry for the misunderstanding Kris, I was referring to the SACD layer of the CD, not the SACD section of the player.
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post #203 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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No problem. I will keep an eye out for more outbreaks of this in the future.

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post #204 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 01:01 PM
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Have the denon A11 uk version, and its perfect.

No macroblocking what so ever. no problems with subtitles in lord of rings.
is multiregion enabled with no problems., Menus dont seem that slow.
dvi out is enabled out of the box.

I cant find any of the problems listed in this or other threads.

only dam fly in ointment is the firewire issue with pioneer amps.

other that well impressed. kicks the new pioneer 868i (hdmi model)ass as well.
which my friend has.

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post #205 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
kicks the new pioneer 868i (hdmi model)ass as well.
which my friend has.
Can you elaborate?

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post #206 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 01:25 PM
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well compared side by side both on the pioneer 434hde and me PJ

the pio still sounds like a tin can, awful.(well when compred to the A11 that is)

component out of the pio is ok for the price but not excellent.
and while its hdmi out pic is better i and my friend thought the A11 component was better. a much more pleasing image.

also the pio deck locks the aspect ratio on the pio plasma so u cant expand the pic to reduce the borders.(when in hdmi mode)

deinterlacing of the pio is still not good

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post #207 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 01:43 PM
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Tin-Can sounding? deinterlacing not good? I guess we'll have to wait for a non biased evaluation. :rolleyes:

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post #208 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 02:21 PM
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Dustin, have you tried Title 17, Chapters 30 and 50 of VE?
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post #209 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Grooms
Tin-Can sounding? deinterlacing not good? I guess we'll have to wait for a non biased evaluation. :rolleyes:
er why biased, this was exactly what my friend thought as well and he owns the 868i and the pio plasma, and cosidering ive owned the last 3 models of pioneer dvd players i dont see whats biased about it. it aint as good as the A11 full stop. this is my first denon player as always been put off by the bad stories.
the deinterlacing has never been that good on pioneer decks while this is a bit better, it is still not as good as silicon image or faroudja

id try to reply to threads based on fact if it were me


oh as for VE this arrives in a couple of days so will try this right away, will post if i see it or not

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post #210 of 1111 Old 12-18-2003, 05:30 PM
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OK, it does suck, and it does sound like a tin-can and in-fact does have poor deinterlacing.
Quote:
id try to reply to threads based on fact if it were me
Thanks for clearing that up. I guess these are facts and not just opinions...
:rolleyes:

sorry guy's, we now return this thread to it's regularly scheduled programing (already in progress)

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