DenonJeff, What's the word on any new Denon Players? - Page 7 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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DVD Players (Standard Def) > DenonJeff, What's the word on any new Denon Players?
kucharsk's Avatar kucharsk 09:36 PM 05-12-2004
FWIW, I didn't pan the product either, but if I could get a 5900 without WMA, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding built in, I would. For that matter I don't need MP3 decoding ability either.

I think it's safe to say most people buying a MSRP $2K DVD player aren't going to use the internal DD/DTS decoders, but that's just me.

You're right, I can buy whatever I want, and I readily confess the 5900's WMA abilities has been one of the reasons I've held back, just as being "spoiled" by the Denon's lack of a layer change has kept me from buying a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi.

I've managed to actively avoid buying anything Microsoft as much as possible, and if I can avoid it in my DVD player as well, I'd that much happier. I want an XBox too, but can't bring myself to buy one because it's a Microsoft product.

I'll save the anti-Microsoft rant for another time except to say that I can't believe someone who compiles such amazing tech reviews actually says "no one else makes a product as good as" Microsoft; since when did the need to reboot, ever, herald quality? :)

So, to get back to the original topic at hand, if Denon wants to include WMA playback capability, more power to them, and hey, they can include WM9 playback as well, but those will be active reasons for me not to consider it; others of course are free to do what they like.
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Dean_Mc's Avatar Dean_Mc 09:36 PM 05-12-2004
You Microsoft fans are entitled to your opinion. A number of your country's Attornies General along with a good portion of the European Union disagree.

Let me put it this way so as not to offend the 'converted'. If you're going to delay a player, make it more expensive, or complex to accodmodate a new MS technology - so people can play ripped off music - don't do it on my behalf. It won't make it more likely I'll buy the player.

From: someone who pays for their hardware and software.

FWIW: This is the third time I've tried to reply. First 2 times browser (Explorer on NT at work) froze when I pushed the submit button.

Now back to the thread....
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 12:17 AM 05-13-2004
Quote:
FWIW, I didn't pan the product either, but if I could get a 5900 without WMA, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding built in, I would. For that matter I don't need MP3 decoding ability either.

I think it's safe to say most people buying a MSRP $2K DVD player aren't going to use the internal DD/DTS decoders, but that's just me.
I agree with you here but knowing how people are from frequenting forums as much as I do, there would be A LOT of rants about lacking these features on a player this expensive, even if they don't use them. Seems you forget even the smallest feature and the wolves pounce!!!


Quote:
I've managed to actively avoid buying anything Microsoft as much as possible, and if I can avoid it in my DVD player as well, I'd that much happier. I want an XBox too, but can't bring myself to buy one because it's a Microsoft product.
Did Bill do something to your kids or parents or something?? You may need to talk to a counselor or something. I can't imagine the idea of wanting to buy something only to deny myself because I don't care for the company. Unless of course they did something very personal to me or my family.

Quote:
I can't believe someone who compiles such amazing tech reviews actually says "no one else makes a product as good as" Microsoft; since when did the need to reboot, ever, herald quality?
While I don't really think of myself as any kind of computer guy (I actually hate these things for the most part) I don't remember EVER using ANY type of software or hardware, MS or not, that didn't have some bugs or need for rebooting. I have extensively used Apple software as well and for quite some years I was a CAD technician and none of the computers we used had any MS products on them.

Personally I have had very little to complain about with the MS software I use. I have had far more hardware issues then software. If someone showed me better software to use I would be more then willing to use it, but so far that hasn't been the case.

I say again, even though you don't like the support for MS media with the Denon line there would be A LOT of complaints if things like this weren't included on a high line player like this. Same goes for HDCD, which is also a MS holding. And I think you're in for a lot of disappointment in this hobby because with WMV-HD on the horizon and other MS technologies, I think you are going to see far more MS rather then less.
Grubert's Avatar Grubert 01:44 AM 05-13-2004
:rolleyes:


Let's get back to topic, shall we?
hongcho's Avatar hongcho 04:26 PM 05-13-2004
No wonder we don't see Jeff here... :p

Hong.
kucharsk's Avatar kucharsk 04:43 PM 05-13-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
I say again, even though you don't like the support for MS media with the Denon line there would be A LOT of complaints if things like this weren't included on a high line player like this. Same goes for HDCD, which is also a MS holding. And I think you're in for a lot of disappointment in this hobby because with WMV-HD on the horizon and other MS technologies, I think you are going to see far more MS rather then less.
I really don't think this is true; I don't believe the Pioneer DV-59AVi has WMA playback, nor do most redbook CD players. In Denon's line, only the 5900 does at present.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to avoid a company for any number of reasons; some do for political reasons (too conservative/liberal), some for personal philosohpical reasons (overseas operations, support of philosophical causes, etc.), others just because they got hosed ("I owned a Chevy once, it was a lemon, I'm never buying a GM again.") In a capitalist economy, voting with our dollars is pretty much the only voice any of us have.

Personally I think Microsoft destroyed the entire computing industry by foisting cheap cr*p on the world and through the use of intense marketing got people to believe that somehow rebooting to solve a technical glitch was OK. But as I said, that's an argument for the water cooler, not this particular thread.

Going back to the main subject, there are always people who complain about any missing "feature" - I commented earlier about the 5900's lack of a bit rate meter.

Not to drift too much further off-topic, if someone would just make a 5900 with video outs, L and R out and a digital out, I'd be a happy camper, but unfortunately to do that you either have to go with something very inexpensive (like a cheap Sony or an Apex) or something very expensive, like a Lexicon RT-10 (sigh...)

As far as being "left behind" I know that's inevitable with the DVD forum's recent approval of WindowsMedia as a codec for HD-DVD; I guess I will be sticking with SD for the foreseeable future...
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 04:19 PM 05-14-2004
Microsoft's video codec VC-9 is up for final approval in the DVD Forum's final HD-DVD specs. just as MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 H.264 are. Obviously, for backwards compatibilty in the players MPEG-2 is a shoe-in.

The MPEG group is full of filthy rich, multi-national mega-evil corporations, so maybe we should boycott DVD's and HDTV too?

I have not heard of any other Microsoft product being thrown into the pot besides their video codec (maybe their audio codecs are up for review, but it looks like DTS, DD, and MLP will more than likely fill that part of the specs.).

Dan
hongcho's Avatar hongcho 12:10 PM 05-15-2004
MS's audio codec is "being thrown into" the Chinese EVD standard. :) They didn't quite make it into HD-DVD (although I am sure MS would love to).

Hong.
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 12:44 PM 05-15-2004
Other Denon DVD players support WMA. The 910 has a sticker right on the front panel that says it supports it. I believe the 2200 and 2900 do as well.
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 12:50 PM 05-15-2004
Correction on that, every player Denon has on the market right now with the exception of the 2900 and 2200 supports WMA.
YvesC's Avatar YvesC 01:07 PM 05-15-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
Correction on that, every player Denon has on the market right now with the exception of the 2900 and 2200 supports WMA.
Well said, and now shall we all go back to the topic plz :rolleyes:
Dave Vaughn's Avatar Dave Vaughn 01:47 PM 05-15-2004
Topic....what topic?
kevinca1's Avatar kevinca1 02:20 PM 05-15-2004
The only thing i dont want in a new denon dvd player is wm9. if denon does this sorry to say jeff i will no longer be a denon fan boy.
F355's Avatar F355 03:05 AM 05-17-2004
so whats the cheapest denonlink + dvi player going to be....?
BOISERIE's Avatar BOISERIE 08:46 AM 05-20-2004
DenonJeff,
Any more info you can give us as to new players coming out soon? Or is Grubert right on the money?
DenonJeff's Avatar DenonJeff 08:54 AM 05-20-2004
Still to early, entry level player to ship next month...

Regards,
TauRus's Avatar TauRus 10:14 AM 05-20-2004
I wonder if its not the DVD1710 that was announced in Europe a couple of weeks ago.

Jeff, I have a different question. I understand the NDA stuff and that some information cannot be shared here, so feel free only to answer to the extent that you can or want. Have any modifications/improvements been introduced on newer generation of DVD players to improve loader/laser pickup performance and reliability?
The reason I am asking this question is that despite my past not so good experience with Denon DVD players, I am still hoping to give the new gen players a try, particularly the universal players. IMHO, Denon's strengths were always on the electrical side - al that famous Denon sound was a result of excellent work of designing the audio and video circuitries. But when it came to mechanical components, Denon product were not necesserily as good. Past couple of generations of players had certian problems discussed here in detail. What I am willing to know if Denon recognizes these issues and taking steps to finally get rid of them. I hope to hear a positive response and them I will be among the first ones to test the new breed of players. And once again, thank you and other guys at Denon for the work done well.
Grubert's Avatar Grubert 03:08 AM 05-24-2004
And there's the flagship DVD-1 too. It was recently presented at a high-end fair in Munich, Germany. See it here .
DenonJeff's Avatar DenonJeff 08:12 AM 05-25-2004
TauRus,

The laser/transport issues that were discussed, and amplified, on this forum at length, were not a major problem for the 3800/9000 players when looked at the amount of units sold. The service return rate was about on our average, which is a quite low 3%.

However we do recognize that we must look at all things when designing and building more expensive, high performance machines. We do not like to have anyone discontent with our products, more specifically when the discontent is due to mechanical issues - that really upsets my engineers!

So, while I would love to tell you there won't be issues in the future, I am a realist, so we will have to wait and see...

Regards,
thebland's Avatar thebland 08:50 AM 05-25-2004
Long thread but is there any news on the 5900 replacment model and when it will be available??
DenonJeff's Avatar DenonJeff 09:18 AM 05-25-2004
Jeff,

The DVD-5910 will be available September, no final pricing as of yet but will be more than 5900 at retail. Would love to give some specifics, but can't yet...

Regards,
TL1's Avatar TL1 12:39 PM 05-25-2004
Jeff
Is there any word on SACD over the Denon Link on the 5900?? Thanks
DenonJeff's Avatar DenonJeff 12:43 PM 05-25-2004
TL1,

Nothing yet...

Regards,
TL1's Avatar TL1 12:48 PM 05-25-2004
Thank you for the quick response. My 5900 is a great machine and DVD-a sounds terrific over the Denon link. Have a Great Day
TauRus's Avatar TauRus 01:03 PM 05-25-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by DenonJeff
TauRus,

The laser/transport issues that were discussed, and amplified, on this forum at length, were not a major problem for the 3800/9000 players when looked at the amount of units sold. The service return rate was about on our average, which is a quite low 3%.

However we do recognize that we must look at all things when designing and building more expensive, high performance machines. We do not like to have anyone discontent with our products, more specifically when the discontent is due to mechanical issues - that really upsets my engineers!

So, while I would love to tell you there won't be issues in the future, I am a realist, so we will have to wait and see...

Regards,
Jeff, I really apreciate your answer. I am glad you did not take my comments as groundless bashing (which it was not) but a constructive criticism (btw, it was targeted more at DVD2200/2900, not so much at oldr players). I do love Denon sound and proudly own a Denon receiver (AVR3803), and later generations of DVD players had terrific picture as well. If there will be indeed some improvements in terms of reliability of mechanical components and QC, then I am sure there will be many more loyal Denon customers, myself included.
YvesC's Avatar YvesC 01:57 PM 05-25-2004
Hi DenonJeff,

Long time ago you stated that the whole lineup of receivers would also be replaced by newer models.
Indeed we've got the 3805 and soon the 2805, but can you tell us when we can expect the replacement for the AVR-4802? Denon Europe has stopped distributing this amplifier...

Regards, Yves
Dr.bigsil's Avatar Dr.bigsil 04:18 PM 05-25-2004
Hello,

I am brand new to this board. I have been struggling to decide between the 5900 and the pioneer elite dv-59. I am worried about all the problems the 5900 is having while the dv-59 has none. How easy is it to get the updates for all the problems of the 5900. I would be using the DVI output into a plasma set and I am worried about the Macro problem. Should I just wait for the 5910 player or just get the pioneer dv-59?

Any info would help a lot.....

Thanks,
Dr.bigsil
Furious's Avatar Furious 05:09 PM 05-25-2004
The 5900 can have most issues addressed via a quick firmware update. As you'd likely be getting a latter 2004 model the firewire fix and all other firmware fixes would likely be in place already. The macroblocking would presumably be fixed via a firmware update, and if it isn't fixed on the 5900 I'd expected it to still be present on the 5910 replacement, so it's a bit of a wash there. I'd recommend trying to find a dealer where you can demo the 5900 with the same display you have as flat panels seem to be more susceptible to the MB'ing.
zoro's Avatar zoro 05:11 PM 05-25-2004
Jeff, I most welcome, ur take on QC issue!! Putting more emhasis on, by your engineer!!

You guys have some very good products on hand so, just a stringent QC might make every one happy!
TauRus's Avatar TauRus 06:45 PM 05-25-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Furious
The 5900 can have most issues addressed via a quick firmware update. As you'd likely be getting a latter 2004 model the firewire fix and all other firmware fixes would likely be in place already. The macroblocking would presumably be fixed via a firmware update, and if it isn't fixed on the 5900 I'd expected it to still be present on the 5910 replacement, so it's a bit of a wash there. I'd recommend trying to find a dealer where you can demo the 5900 with the same display you have as flat panels seem to be more susceptible to the MB'ing.
Furious, what is the source of your information that there will be further firmware updates for DVD5900, and that if there won't be any more, then the issues will be inherited by 5910? Is this your assumption or a solid fact?
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