Upconverting DVD Player Options/Impressions - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Can you offer any examples of how the PQ of the Bravo D2 was better than the Zenith DVB318?

Yes, Jim... here is what I wrote in another thread last week (only I have a D1, not a D2):

"Well, after five or six hours of testing last night, and unfortunately for the Zenith DVB318, there is simply no doubt that my Bravo D1 has a much clearer, more detailed and less artifact-ridden picture. I tried the Zenith at 720p (native screen resolution of may Samsung DLP) and at 1080i using the component outputs. It did look better than using the Zenith's DVI out (which I find really odd... DVI is supposed to bypass all the analog processing and therefore be a higher quality, more accurate signal).

But no matter... there is still the black smearing/ghosting problem (although it was less noticeable) and what I can only describe as very slight image "wandering"... it appeared to move around a bit (not a rock solid, stable playback). And, of course, there is the annoying fact that the Zenith stretches 4:3 DVD content (with kid's stuff, older movies, etc. this is a real pain in the a**). You have to reset the TV from "wide" to "normal" for the aspect ratio to be correct. And if the DVD is a widescreen letterbox (non-anamorphic) 4:3, the zoom function on the Zenith introduces some very weird scaling artifacts when you zoom vertically with the incremental adjustment to correct the aspect ratio. Also, it appears the Zenith overscans (crops) the borders of the image too much... you definitely can't see the entire frame.

I hooked my Bravo back up to the DVI and left the Zenith connected to the component ins to do an A/B... there is no comparison. At least with the Samsung DLP rear projection display, the picture quality of the Bravo is much more detailed, clear, stable, and has no scaling problems or other artifacts (unless they are on the DVD itself - i.e. compression grain, blocks, color banding, etc.)

I have to conclude that the Zenith DVB318 does have a pretty impressive picture over the analog component outputs. If you do not have a DVI input on your HDTV or it is a more forgiving display type than DLP (like direct view CRT, plasma, etc.), then the Zenith should be fine, as long as the 4:3 stretch thing doesn't bother you.

As for me, I will stick with my D1 for now. I haven't had any loading problems or other issues with mine and it is over a year old now. Maybe I'll have a look at the D2... FWIW, IMHO, YMMV"
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post #62 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:24 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
And screen captures would be great to show this, if u can!

That would be tough to do, now that I've sold the Zenith. But if the DVB318 had performed better with my display, I certainly would have kept it.
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post #63 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:29 AM
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I have just bought a Bravo D2 and quite pleased with the PQ using DVI. Although I went from A Toshiba 2801 to the Bravo. Also the Bravo D2 seems to have a decent build quality, at least it weighs more than my Toshiba.
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post #64 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:34 AM
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Thanks, so the 318 does crop or overscan DVDs with DVI output. Secrets couldn't report on it as Kris doesn't have an HDCP display. Did it crop on all four sides? And what percentages? This can be frustrating if you want 1:1 pixel mapping and you're missing a portion of the image.

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post #65 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Thanks, so the 318 does crop or overscan DVDs with DVI output. Secrets couldn't report on it as Kris doesn't have an HDCP display. Did it crop on all four sides? And what percentages? This can be frustrating if you want 1:1 pixel mapping and you're missing a portion of the image.

Not sure... maybe 2-3% or so. The image was slightly larger (zoomed in) with the Zenith. With the Bravo, you see practically the entire width of the 720x480 frame, and very nearly the entire height (the Samsung DLP may overscan or physically conceal the vertical a bit).
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post #66 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 07:14 AM
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I will chime in and say that I agree that the Bravo gives a better, cleaner, sharper picture than the Zenith 318.

That being said, the Bravo (I have the D1) has problems all its own in terms of reliability as evidenced extensively on this forum.

Mine went out of warranty by three weeks, and the D1 completely stopped working. It makes a grinding noise whenever I turn it on, and the tray will not open. Prior to this, I would get the infamous "lockup" problem during the course of a movie every once in a while (probably 1 out of 3 or 4 movies).

I contacted V Inc. and was advised that they wanted $95.00 before looking at my D1.

Bottom line is that I will wait for the new Denon DVI players to be released. I will use the Zenith on my Mitsubishi which doesn't have DVI, only component.

I fully expect the Denon players to provide both great picture quality and reliability, something that seems to be lacking in these other players.


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post #67 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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My choices are boiling down to Momitsu vs Denon 1910 vs Panny s97. Like the super flexibility of Momitsus though but PQ is the key and lets see how Denon and Panny deliver goods. Same is the case with Momitsu when it releases its players in Sep. Seems like I would not be able to buy any player until early november (once early impressions might start coming in). these companies have us waiting for a long time...hope the wait is worth it!
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post #68 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 11:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
I will chime in and say that I agree that the Bravo gives a better, cleaner, sharper picture than the Zenith 318.

That being said, the Bravo (I have the D1) has problems all its own in terms of reliability as evidenced extensively on this forum.

Mine went out of warranty by three weeks, and the D1 completely stopped working. It makes a grinding noise whenever I turn it on, and the tray will not open. Prior to this, I would get the infamous "lockup" problem during the course of a movie every once in a while (probably 1 out of 3 or 4 movies).

I contacted V Inc. and was advised that they wanted $95.00 before looking at my D1.

Bottom line is that I will wait for the new Denon DVI players to be released. I will use the Zenith on my Mitsubishi which doesn't have DVI, only component.

I fully expect the Denon players to provide both great picture quality and reliability, something that seems to be lacking in these other players.

My Bravo D1 runs fine and has for about 15 months... one thing about my set up is the electrical power is completely cut off to the Bravo when the sytem is shut down. I wonder if this very frequent "re-setting" has resulted in improved reliability for me? I haven't run in to loading problems of the type many describe with the Bravo units. Just a thought...
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post #69 of 2453 Old 07-23-2004, 06:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
And screen captures would be great to show this, if u can!

See, I don't believe in screen capture, because most digital camara would clip white and black, and the picture isn't accurate as you see it in live.

For example, I just bought a DImage XT, and I was try to post a screen shot on both black and white level on V880 and 931, but the picture did not look that great compare what the image really is.

Baja
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post #70 of 2453 Old 07-25-2004, 11:12 AM
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What exactly are they going to improve in the updated Momitsu-september-release-version of the 880?

You're happy with what you have, untill something better comes along.
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post #71 of 2453 Old 07-25-2004, 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Reem
What exactly are they going to improve in the updated Momitsu-september-release-version of the 880?

Network capability.

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post #72 of 2453 Old 07-25-2004, 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Huskerfan
Network capability.

Yeah but that's the v880N version right. It says in the opening post that the normal version, V880, will be updated in september. What are they going to add/replace?

You're happy with what you have, untill something better comes along.
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post #73 of 2453 Old 07-25-2004, 04:55 PM
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The V880 September upgrade will have a new (improved?) remote and a new circuit board with separate DACs for component and composite/S-vid output, which should give better component output quality, and I would imagine allow you to play S-vid and component at the same time (won't work on the current V880). Supposedly the Sept upgrade will do nothing for DVI.
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post #74 of 2453 Old 07-26-2004, 06:29 AM
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I just got my 318 on last Thursday and it looks amazing through DVI at 720p to my Panny 50" RP LCD. I know people say don't use DVI and don't do 720p over DVI but heck I'm doing both and you know what it's jaw dropping amazing picture quality.

Admittedly I got this player because it's the only upscaler that isn't >$1k and will not get wierd IR commands from my Pio reciever and my only previous player almost died.

I will also admitt that when I ran DVE to calibrate my TV with 720p over DVI the player (and TV) were set way to bright. So I had to lower the TVs brightness substainually along with the contrast a little. I will also admitt that over DVI it was very very easy to see the "White Crush" over DVI on the contrast test screen. But I gave it a try anyways and watched "Finding Nemo" and "Shrek" back to back using 720p over DVI and was capivated. So I am ignoring the "white crush" because we did not notice it in a movie yet.

These are just my findings. As for bad units and such, when I ordered through "G" I spoke with him on his volume of sales and he said they get ~ 75-100 calls a day on this player. Were sold out with the stock they had and for the next weeks shipment (last weeks, with my unit) he had already sold 228 of the 250 units they were getting in.

Again just the information that I know about this player.

BTW Make sure you put your audio options to 96kHz and turn that darn DRC Off! With these settings I heard things in Nemo and Shrek I never heard before! Outstanding.
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post #75 of 2453 Old 07-26-2004, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by BajaFishin
See, I don't believe in screen capture, because most digital camara would clip white and black, and the picture isn't accurate as you see it in live.

For example, I just bought a DImage XT, and I was try to post a screen shot on both black and white level on V880 and 931, but the picture did not look that great compare what the image really is.

Baja

I just wanted to see the screen captures for looking at menus and subtitle and other issues, etc and not really PQ. You are right PQs cannot be compared with screen captures, unless there is a BIG difference.
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post #76 of 2453 Old 07-26-2004, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by Beaker1024
I just got my 318 on last Thursday and it looks amazing through DVI at 720p to my Panny 50" RP LCD. I know people say don't use DVI and don't do 720p over DVI but heck I'm doing both and you know what it's jaw dropping amazing picture quality.

Admittedly I got this player because it's the only upscaler that isn't >$1k and will not get wierd IR commands from my Pio reciever and my only previous player almost died.

I will also admitt that when I ran DVE to calibrate my TV with 720p over DVI the player (and TV) were set way to bright. So I had to lower the TVs brightness substainually along with the contrast a little. I will also admitt that over DVI it was very very easy to see the "White Crush" over DVI on the contrast test screen. But I gave it a try anyways and watched "Finding Nemo" and "Shrek" back to back using 720p over DVI and was capivated. So I am ignoring the "white crush" because we did not notice it in a movie yet.

These are just my findings. As for bad units and such, when I ordered through "G" I spoke with him on his volume of sales and he said they get ~ 75-100 calls a day on this player. Were sold out with the stock they had and for the next weeks shipment (last weeks, with my unit) he had already sold 228 of the 250 units they were getting in.

Again just the information that I know about this player.

BTW Make sure you put your audio options to 96kHz and turn that darn DRC Off! With these settings I heard things in Nemo and Shrek I never heard before! Outstanding.

Thanks for your review Beaker! Let us know if you find anything new (good or bad) abt this player with time.
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post #77 of 2453 Old 07-29-2004, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I should add the new Sony player to this list ..will dig on that info and update this thread...
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post #78 of 2453 Old 07-30-2004, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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how many of the above players have HDMI
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post #79 of 2453 Old 07-30-2004, 09:53 AM
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I have had the Momitsu V880 for three months and am enthusiastic about its PQ. I have mine connected to my 50" RCA DLP via DVI at 1080i and it's PQ is about as close to HD as you can get without being the real thing. By the way, the Bravos and Momitsus use the same chip.

Others have reported problems with the Momitsu's loader but mine has performed flawlessly on that score. I have only a couple of negatives to report: The remote is genuinely awful, so bad that I would not recommend the Momitsu to anyone who does not have or plans to get a good universal remote -- I use a Harmony. The other, less serious, problem is the time and chapter information, which is both limited and fills the screen, instead of conveniently appearing at the top as it did on my old Sony.

Despite its quirks, I have been very happy with my Momitsu and highly recommend it to anyone who does not find the negatives discussed above to be deal killers.
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post #80 of 2453 Old 07-30-2004, 05:36 PM
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I almost pull the trigger on Infocus 4805, but on the second thought - I haven't decide on the DVD player yet.
I already pick out the projector, screen and the mount. All I need is the DVD player to go with it.
If I pull the trigger today, it would be the 318.
I probably should wait the reviews on HD941 and 1910.

Dang it! I can't wait.

Baja
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post #81 of 2453 Old 07-30-2004, 09:42 PM
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As posted on another thread I suckered for teh Bravo D1 based on the endorsement here on AV. The player worked fine for about two months and then started locking up after "loading" the DVD and would not play. Since then it has inconsistenly played. WHen it does play the picture is excellent at 720 but jumpy at 1080 (probably because I am running 45 feet and using a repeater). No the player is just plain dead. Based on the crappy service I have decided to not pursue a repair. I will NEVER buy an offbrand product again. I would strongly recommend that someone considering a Bravo DO NOT buy one.

Those who have had good experience will soon enough join the rest of us..........

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post #82 of 2453 Old 07-30-2004, 10:43 PM
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Those who have had good experience will soon enough join the rest of us..........

Amen!

My Bravo D1 completely crapped out 3 weeks after the warranty expired. They wanted $95.00 just to look at it!


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post #83 of 2453 Old 07-31-2004, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by BajaFishin
I almost pull the trigger on Infocus 4805, but on the second thought - I haven't decide on the DVD player yet.
I already pick out the projector, screen and the mount. All I need is the DVD player to go with it.
If I pull the trigger today, it would be the 318.
I probably should wait the reviews on HD941 and 1910.

Dang it! I can't wait.

Baja

Baja: What makes u lean towards 318 and not Momitsu? I am too waiting for 941 and 1910 to come out!
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post #84 of 2453 Old 07-31-2004, 03:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
Baja: What makes u lean towards 318 and not Momitsu? I am too waiting for 941 and 1910 to come out!

mallu,

I already got the V880 and 931, both are use for one tv. Now - I just want to try something new. Base on what I read here, they are so many happy owners here, not only that, this player is sold for less than $200, how can you beat that?

But I'm still deciding - most of the DVI players out right now are silver color, I want a black dvd player, I can't afford 5900 or 59AVI, and D1 is 1st gen. DVI player, so that only left me with 1910. Sounds funny isn't it? sounds like - I decide on the DVD player base on color

I don't know

HELP ME!!!!

Baja
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post #85 of 2453 Old 08-02-2004, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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That makes sense Baja. the wait is too long for me as well. End of September is when I shall be able to make any decision abt the player it seems since late August to Mid September start getting the players and then start reviewing them....the wait is killing me as well. Personally I would like a black look as well..but then I would not really care in the end as long as the player is a great performer.
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post #86 of 2453 Old 08-02-2004, 09:18 AM
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Does anyone have any info on the Marantz DV8400. This player was introduced some time ago with a DVI port that was not activated. It now says on their website that you can activate the DVI yourself.
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post #87 of 2453 Old 08-05-2004, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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updated with the Sony DVP-NS975V player and other informational categories.
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post #88 of 2453 Old 08-10-2004, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone bought the Zenith, Momitsu or Samsung lately and would like to share their reviews on them?
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post #89 of 2453 Old 08-10-2004, 03:19 PM
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Well guys, my waiting for a player is over. I decided to go with the Cambridge Audio Azur 540D. I do not have DVI capability and don't plan on upgrading my Tosh 50" RPTV any time soon.

Gives a nice picture and I much prefer the build quality and remote over other players I tried from B&M stores. I suppose with those players one gets what they pay for.

No quirks reported from reviews I have read for what I was able to find on this player.

BTW, the rest of my components in my system are black!

Good luck and happy hunting!!
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post #90 of 2453 Old 08-11-2004, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like a good player robert. You do not need upscaling over component? Or Denon 1910 should be available this month. Denon 1710 is already available and shall have a good build quality. However, if you already made the purchase, Congrats and Enjoy!
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