Upconverting DVD Player Options/Impressions - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2453 Old 09-10-2004, 08:13 AM
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Check out this thread - never heard of this retailer...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=444468

Thought maybe I just wasn't reading carefully. In general I find Toshiba is really bad about marketing their products. Surprised this is even on their website - often they don't update their site until months after a product has been out.
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post #182 of 2453 Old 09-10-2004, 09:10 AM
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There is another upconverting dvd player that you may want to add to your list. At first glance this player looks like a combination of the Bravo B3 and the Momitsu V880N.

Press release for I-O Data's: AVel LinkPlayer 2nd

Looks like a September release for Japan and October release for the US.

Here's a link to the User Manual

Here is the AVS Forum thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=linkplayer

Regards

DrCee
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post #183 of 2453 Old 09-10-2004, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally purchased this player from Tweeter this evening. Did not get time to set it up earlier. Just finished testing it a bit. Gotta say..so far its a mixed bag. Currently I have a Panasonic CV51 Player..4 yrs old...non-progressive. I hooked this player up via COMPONENT cable to my Sony 60" RP XBR TV. Review is based on that...I wanted to get its true comparison to old player.

Positives

- setup was very easy
- Bit better colors..not a whole lot
- Fast loader
- Very responsive remote
- Chapter change fast


Negatives

- Not a whole lot of difference in PQ in 480i mode from old Panny
- When changed to 480p mode, slightly better colors...definitely better scaling since I saw some dithering on a particular dvd with old player...very less with this player...liked that
- When in 480p mode, TV does not recognize that the movie is in widescreen mode!!! I have to change the mode manually in TV. Ridiculous. Even my old panny did that right. Works perfect in 480i. Real big negative
- PQ was slightly better...not a whole lot than old panny...colors slightly better..
- Mode to change colors, brightness not very intuitive..colors were pretty low by default. Had to set it at +6 to get them to my liking.
- Resume is only temp and for current movie. Does not have mutiple DVD memory
- Overall Interface is very basic..not at all somewhat sexier that I was have imagined...
- Layer change is pathetic! Player almost pauses for a 1 second before resuming....panny was the same...did not like that

Will try MP3 CD and DVD +RW tomorrow. Need to record one. Will also buy a DVI cable and see what the upscaling buzz is all abt.

In a nutshell, I would NOT buy the player, if I was buying for component only. Nothing really worth spending another 250 bucks...old panny would be fine for that. BUT lets see the DVI now..that is the main reason I have bought this player and am hoping I like to PQ of that.

Let me know if any of you folks have any Qs for me.
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post #184 of 2453 Old 09-10-2004, 11:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
Finally purchased this player .....

In a nutshell, I would NOT buy the player, if I was buying for component only. Nothing really worth spending another 250 bucks...old panny would be fine for that. BUT lets see the DVI now..that is the main reason I have bought this player and am hoping I like to PQ of that.

Let me know if any of you folks have any Qs for me.

Which player are you referring too?? Also, do any of these upscaling players, upscale over component, or only HDMI/DVI?
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post #185 of 2453 Old 09-11-2004, 06:11 AM
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He's talking about the Denon 1910 (this has been posted in several 1910 threads). This player should shine over DVI, but has inferior video DACs compared with the 2910 and 3910, so not too surprising that it is not a killer player over component. The reason to buy it is for DVI, not component.
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post #186 of 2453 Old 09-11-2004, 01:43 PM
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Isn't it really way to early in the game with DVI? It sure appears there are high expectations from Joe consumer. Wasn't there a thread someone started "I'm convinced all DVI players are bad" or something like that?

Player manufacturers seem to be having a hard time lately with just component in comparison to earlier products on the marketplace. Slim pickings for excellent PQ currently IMHO with current players! I'm having a heck of a time with just that currently although I admit I'm having fun trying
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post #187 of 2453 Old 09-11-2004, 05:39 PM
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alpinefool: the Sammy HD841 and HD941 output 768p with timings that won't sync with the Sony HS10/HS20. Your options for 1:1 pixel mapping with your HS20 is the Bravo D1/D2 and the Momitsu as far as I know. I have a Bravo D1 connected to my HS10 using 768p 1:1 pixel mapping and the picture quality is amazing.
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post #188 of 2453 Old 09-11-2004, 05:49 PM
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Thanks for all the great info.

I am in the market for a new DVD player, possibly an up-conversion to component unit, and am finding all this information very helpful, but a little confusing. I have the Hitachi 36SDX01S 36" Digital/HDTV with 1 component input and 2 VGA/PC inputs. I hope to soon purchase a Yamaha RX-V750 receiver to take advantage of the up-conversion to component so I can use the receiver to switch between DVD player, the Moto 6200 HD STB and the up-converted versions of my Tivo series 1 and VCR. Can the receiver perform the up-conversion to 1080i (meaning I would not need an up-converting DVD player) or would it need to be done by the player itself? Would running the up-converting DVD player through the receiver to the TV down-covert the signal? Also, can an HTPC do this up-conversion through the component out of a good video card? Can you play a DVD in a computer's drive, run the video signal out the component output to the TV and achieve the same up-conversion you would from the up-converting DVD player?
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post #189 of 2453 Old 09-12-2004, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by cpalcott
Thanks for all the great info.

I am in the market for a new DVD player, possibly an up-conversion to component unit, and am finding all this information very helpful, but a little confusing. I have the Hitachi 36SDX01S 36" Digital/HDTV with 1 component input and 2 VGA/PC inputs. I hope to soon purchase a Yamaha RX-V750 receiver to take advantage of the up-conversion to component so I can use the receiver to switch between DVD player, the Moto 6200 HD STB and the up-converted versions of my Tivo series 1 and VCR. Can the receiver perform the up-conversion to 1080i (meaning I would not need an up-converting DVD player) or would it need to be done by the player itself? Would running the up-converting DVD player through the receiver to the TV down-covert the signal? Also, can an HTPC do this up-conversion through the component out of a good video card? Can you play a DVD in a computer's drive, run the video signal out the component output to the TV and achieve the same up-conversion you would from the up-converting DVD player?

I think what you mention can be done and a lot of members are doing so. There is a HTPC forum (on Avs itself). Ask the Q there and I am sure you shall get a lot of answers and good tips. More members dedicated towards doing that than here...
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post #190 of 2453 Old 09-12-2004, 09:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by WynsWrld98
alpinefool: the Sammy HD841 and HD941 output 768p with timings that won't sync with the Sony HS10/HS20. Your options for 1:1 pixel mapping with your HS20 is the Bravo D1/D2 and the Momitsu as far as I know. I have a Bravo D1 connected to my HS10 using 768p 1:1 pixel mapping and the picture quality is amazing.

the specs on the Bravo D2 don't mention output at 768p, only 720p and 1080i. Is this a feature on the D1 that disappeared on D2? I have a GWII and I'm trying to find information about best PQ from upconverting DVD players. Wich one would be the best for me?
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post #191 of 2453 Old 09-12-2004, 11:39 AM
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The Bravo D1/D2 and Momitsu allow custom resolutions to be specified (with custom timings). This is a very cool feature and is exactly why I'm using the Bravo with my Sony HS10 so I can accomplish 1:1 pixel mapping easily.
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post #192 of 2453 Old 09-13-2004, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by mallu2u
Finally purchased this player from Tweeter this evening. Did not get time to set it up earlier. Just finished testing it a bit. Gotta say..so far its a mixed bag. Currently I have a Panasonic CV51 Player..4 yrs old...non-progressive. I hooked this player up via COMPONENT cable to my Sony 60" RP XBR TV. Review is based on that...I wanted to get its true comparison to old player.

Positives

- setup was very easy
- Bit better colors..not a whole lot
- Fast loader
- Very responsive remote
- Chapter change fast


Negatives

- Not a whole lot of difference in PQ in 480i mode from old Panny
- When changed to 480p mode, slightly better colors...definitely better scaling since I saw some dithering on a particular dvd with old player...very less with this player...liked that
- When in 480p mode, TV does not recognize that the movie is in widescreen mode!!! I have to change the mode manually in TV. Ridiculous. Even my old panny did that right. Works perfect in 480i. Real big negative
- PQ was slightly better...not a whole lot than old panny...colors slightly better..
- Mode to change colors, brightness not very intuitive..colors were pretty low by default. Had to set it at +6 to get them to my liking.
- Resume is only temp and for current movie. Does not have mutiple DVD memory
- Overall Interface is very basic..not at all somewhat sexier that I was have imagined...
- Layer change is pathetic! Player almost pauses for a 1 second before resuming....panny was the same...did not like that

Will try MP3 CD and DVD +RW tomorrow. Need to record one. Will also buy a DVI cable and see what the upscaling buzz is all abt.

In a nutshell, I would NOT buy the player, if I was buying for component only. Nothing really worth spending another 250 bucks...old panny would be fine for that. BUT lets see the DVI now..that is the main reason I have bought this player and am hoping I like to PQ of that.

Let me know if any of you folks have any Qs for me.


So the above were my thoughts via component. Now over DVI.


Summary

- Not much difference at all when changed from component to DVI (at 480p)
- No black crush or white crush issues
- Picture is BETTER with black control OFF
- When upscaled to 1080i, Definitely better picture...meaning better Colors, more clarity, sharper image
- Plays DVD +RW effortlessly. Will to try MP3 CD tonite. Want to see the interface.
- User Manual is quite poor for this player.
- It was quite painful to go to the DVD Player to constantly change between component and DVI and then between 480/720/1080 modes for DVI. Wish the remote had that. But that ok since once set, there is not much need to change it, except when watching 4:3 DVD.

But I would like to add, upscaling to DVI even to 1080i was no jaw-dropping experience to me. Based on reviews earlier from people, my expectations were high. But I gotta say, the difference is definitely visible but not earth-shattering. And yes, NO COMPARISON TO HD at all!! HDTV is way better than this player's upscaling to 1080i. I am not sure if 2910 or 3910 shall offer better picture to 1910. I need to get info on that.

In short, I am not sure if Denon 1910 is my answer to upscaling. I have ordered the Zenith DVB 318 as well to compare that should arrive by tomorrow or day after. Will compare the two. I think now I shall also need to compare this player with Panny S97 or Sammy 941 before I decide on it. I did get this player for $230 plus tax and therefore the price is quite good. But I am not seeing much feature/cost benefit in keeping this player.

Let me know if you guys have any Qs.
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post #193 of 2453 Old 09-13-2004, 04:45 PM
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My folks just got the Sammy HLP 50" DLP set. Would the best choice taking into consideration budget vs. quality be for the DVB318 or the Sammy HD841? How does the scaler in the Samsung compare to the Zenith? I imagine I would prefer the Sammy w/ DVI connection at 720p, right? I read that 720p with the Zenith is not very good.

Thanks for your insight!

Jeff
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post #194 of 2453 Old 09-13-2004, 05:40 PM
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I would go with the 1910 since, as you say, the Zenith shines at 1080i but not at 720p (which is what you should output since that is the native resolution of the DLP). The Sammy 841 is just not a very good player (the 941 should be a lot better due to a better deinterlacer/scaler).
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post #195 of 2453 Old 09-14-2004, 04:25 AM
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Thanks BillP.

Just started looking for this online and have yet to find anyplace other than Crutchfield?
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post #196 of 2453 Old 09-14-2004, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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CrutchField, Abt Electronics. I shall update the first post as well.
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post #197 of 2453 Old 09-15-2004, 07:00 AM
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bump
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post #198 of 2453 Old 09-15-2004, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
CrutchField, Abt Electronics. I shall update the first post as well.

Updated the above info in the first post...do let me know if and where u find good deals on the above players and I shall continue to update the post.
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post #199 of 2453 Old 09-15-2004, 01:46 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BillP
I would go with the 1910 since, as you say, the Zenith shines at 1080i but not at 720p (which is what you should output since that is the native resolution of the DLP). The Sammy 841 is just not a very good player (the 941 should be a lot better due to a better deinterlacer/scaler).

Thanks for your suggestion, I looked at the Denon 1910 (well, looked at the specs) , canceled the 318 and went with the Denon. Much appreciated!

Jeff
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post #200 of 2453 Old 09-15-2004, 03:20 PM
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Newbie question. How do you determine your TV's native resolution. I have the Hitachi 36SDX01S 36" Digital/HDTV with 1 component input and 2 VGA/PC inputs.
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post #201 of 2453 Old 09-17-2004, 01:46 PM
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I believe native resolutions only apply to fixed pixel displays like lcd's and dlp's. CRT picture tube tv's do not have a fixed number of pixels, and thus no native resolution. Your Hitachi can display all resolutions without relevance to any native resolution.
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post #202 of 2453 Old 09-17-2004, 03:30 PM
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My Bravo D1 just died. I have a non HDCP TV source. This is a lot of info. I have looked at the mentioned DVD Players, and realize that I am limited to some extent because of the non HDCP issue. I use the DVI to up convert. I am trying to fine the best player considering this issue under $1000. I don't want to go through the troubles I've had with this DVD Player. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

Joe
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post #203 of 2453 Old 09-17-2004, 03:49 PM
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Joe,

You are in an bad spot. The only non-HDCP players are all problematic, inexpensive players (or a very expensive AYRE). Hollywood has the DVD player manufacturers by the throat (and indirectly you..the consumer).

You can try another BRAVO clone (e.g. D2, Momitsu, Zenith). All cheap, all potentially problematic.

Perhaps a compatible, HDCP display is the more value oriented upgrade for you.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #204 of 2453 Old 09-17-2004, 05:51 PM
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Thanks Jeff,
That is what I thought. My Yamaha was $4800 and is still a great machine. I was hoping to find a good upgrade, but like you stated everything of good quality is HDCP. I appreciate your help in this matter.

Joe
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post #205 of 2453 Old 09-20-2004, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Posted my thoughts on Zenith vs Denon 1910 here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post4380085, if you guys are interested.
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post #206 of 2453 Old 09-23-2004, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by EricScott
Why hasn't there been any talk about this Toshiba upconverting DVD player - the SD-5970?

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/prod...?model=SD-5970

Apparently it is available now and costs $200 - $250. Doesn't appear to be a universal player but it has HDMI.

Anyone have any idea if Toshiba's "Digital Cinema Progressive 3:2 Pulldown" is any good - esp. compared to DCDi?

Would be curious to know what people think about this player.

Eric: Have you seen this thread? : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=447994
Bad review for Toshiba player
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post #207 of 2453 Old 09-23-2004, 06:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
Eric: Have you seen this thread? : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=447994
Bad review for Toshiba player

Mallu2u,

Thanks for the link and for your comparison of the Zenith and the Denon. I am not in any rush so I am going to wait for the Samsung 941 to come out - I"m on TVA's pre-order list. If it works well I'll keep it. If not, I'll probably get the Denon or maybe the Sony or Panasonic if they are out by then.

I really want DCDi however and AFAIK, neither the Sony nor the Panasonic have it.
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post #208 of 2453 Old 09-23-2004, 07:13 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by EricScott
I really want DCDi however and AFAIK, neither the Sony nor the Panasonic have it.

The thread for the Panasonic DVD-S97 indicates that it does offer the DCDi.
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post #209 of 2453 Old 09-23-2004, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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You know a funny thing Eric. Someone has started a thread after they talked to a Sammy Rep that Sammy 941 might not get released at all! LOL. IF that is true, Sammy must have something terribly wrong with the player. On the other hand, most sales reps were generally not very well informed anyway and tend to speculate, which they should not. BB guys are the same... Dont have the link to that thread right now but search on 941 and u shall find it. If not, let me know. I am betting that Panny shall be one of the best players around. I am myself thinking of returning the Denon 1910 and Zenith and waiting for the Sony and Panny Players..will be very hard decision for me but I might end up doing that.
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post #210 of 2453 Old 09-23-2004, 08:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Adam Tyner
The thread for the Panasonic DVD-S97 indicates that it does offer the DCDi.

Nice. So the Panny is now towards the top of my list - esp. if Samsung never releases the 941
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