Denon 5900 Macroblocking - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blkout
Kris, if the DVD-1600 scored higher in your tests than the 59AVi, is that not implying that the DVD-1600 is a better player? Don't try to act like you didn't know that many people trust those test scores for their buying decisions, my point was made clearly no matter how many times you or some of the others try to spin it. The bottom line is that the Secrets tests while entertaining to read, often to do not relate to real world issues. I have owned both the DVD-1600 and now the 59AVi, and its no comparison but if I went by the Secrets scores, I would be lead to believe that the DVD-1600 is superior in every way. Quite simply, its not.

Surely you're smart enough to understand the point I'm making here.
No it is not implying that the 1600 is a better player, only that it did better in our video tests. That is the point of the benchmark. It has nothing to do with build, features or audio performance which I feel are extremelly important. If you read it that way then you obviously DIDN'T read the entire benchmark.

I still stand by my position that the 1600 is a BETTER video player. If you don't think so that is fine, again enjoy.

Our tests are not meant to be entertaining. They are OBJECTIVE tests that are carefully setup and represent some of the most stringent testing out there. We can simply hook a DVD player up to a monitor and start purring out ooohs and ahhhs to you but frankly I find that pointless.

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post #62 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 07:03 AM
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Kris,

as you tested both 5900/DVI and SDI modded 5900 w/ iScan HD, how would you rate the difference in terms of PQ? I assume you output NR from iScan to your display.
I'm currently thinking about upgrading my Samsung 931 (DVI) and try to figure out which route to take. I have an P50 BTW and the thing thats annoying me most on the 931 is the macroblocking issue.

Regards,
Markus
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post #63 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 07:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
No it is not implying that the 1600 is a better player, only that it did better in our video tests. That is the point of the benchmark. It has nothing to do with build, features or audio performance which I feel are extremelly important. If you read it that way then you obviously DIDN'T read the entire benchmark.

I still stand by my position that the 1600 is a BETTER video player. If you don't think so that is fine, again enjoy.

Our tests are not meant to be entertaining. They are OBJECTIVE tests that are carefully setup and represent some of the most stringent testing out there. We can simply hook a DVD player up to a monitor and start purring out ooohs and ahhhs to you but frankly I find that pointless.

Kris, if you think the 1600 is a better video player than the 59AVi, then that says more than enough about your credibility. I've done countless searches on multiple AV forums and read about many people who have made the switch from the DVD-1600(and other top players) to the 59AVi and all of them said the 59AVi looked better. I really don't see how someone who claims to be an authority on this subject could see it any other way. Maybe you should spend a little more time with the 59AVi and check your results again. Just the HDMI output compared to component output alone would yield a better picture, even you should know that.
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post #64 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 07:29 AM
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Kris-

Let it go. You cannot stop this one, and you need not defend yourself or the Benchmark.

Many of us do understand that the Benchmark is a way of quantifying players. I, for one, use it as a guide, not the law. I would like to believe that many here do to. We enjoy and value your input as a credible opinion on a variety of topics. In the end, as you often say, one should always judge for themselves and make their own decision.

Click on the link below if you want to argue about the 59AVi vs the 5900:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=399577

Dave
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post #65 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 07:56 AM
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I agree with David7.

Kris, you don't have to defend yourself.

We're all behind you.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #66 of 69 Old 08-03-2004, 07:59 AM
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I'm curious as to why, not considering SACD, that the 9000's audio isn't superior to the 5900's audio?? No one talks much about the 40 lb monster's audio because of all the hoopla around "universal audio".
I used the 9000 for quite sometime before I got the 5900. The audio on the 9000 is awesome. The 5900 is right up there but I wanted SA-CD compatibility, hence the 5900.

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(The monster's component video may also be superior to that of the 5900's if you rate 14-bit 108MHz combined with Silicon Image over 12-bit 216MHz combined with Faroudja. I guess only Charles Hansen could argue bit-count versus amount of video over-sampling.)
The 9000 also has a great video section. The advantage of the 5900 is the scaling and digital video connection. The Faroudja always does a bit better with some of the tests, but the Silicon Image is a great chip. As for video DACs, I don't think you'll see any difference.

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post #67 of 69 Old 08-15-2004, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Kris Deering,

From looking at the manual for the 5900 it looks like it will not output 480i over DVI-D. Is that true or is 480i the default and 480p, 720p and 1080i ar the choices other than 480i. The manual seems to suggest that it will output 480i. Is that correct and will it output it over DVI-D?
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post #68 of 69 Old 08-15-2004, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jnug
Kris Deering,

From looking at the manual for the 5900 it looks like it will not output 480i over DVI-D. Is that true or is 480i the default and 480p, 720p and 1080i ar the choices other than 480i. The manual seems to suggest that it will output 480i. Is that correct and will it output it over DVI-D?
No 480i over DVI. 480p, 720p and 1080i only.

Jim
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post #69 of 69 Old 08-15-2004, 11:26 PM
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Blkout,

"I've done countless searches on multiple AV forums and read about many people who have made the switch from the DVD-1600(and other top players) to the 59AVi and all of them said the 59AVi looked better."

You've touched on an ultra-subtly in the Benchmark testing: Their testing does not cover everything that makes for superb analog video, just most of it.

For example, the 1600 does not have the same quality video DAC's including Noise Shaped Video filtering as does the 59AVi. The advantage of this as regards to PQ as seen on "our average" HT displays has been the subject of opposing opinions by video experts and engineers. I for one prefer to trust the DVD player and/or video chip designeers on this one and DO NOT believe they would use these high performance video DAC's and NSV if there wasn't a PQ reason to do so. I specifically bought a DVD player with video DAC's and NSV superior to that in the 1600 "just in case" I was in fact purchasing additional insurance against seeing something I didn't like in 1600 images. Just in case means trying to get at the statistical fringe of performance - but it does cost more for this bleeding edge insurance.

This may be what's making 59AVi images view better over those of the 1600 and similar players - regardless of, and outside of, the scores between them with regards to the parameters that the Benchmark testing does evaluate. All of this is IMHO, of course, .... as those far more expert than myself argue on both sides regarding video conversion bits and the improved affordable filtering made possible through high frequency over-sampling and NSV.

Phil
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