Denon 5900 discontinued! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mdrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I went to order a Denon 5900 universal DVD player today and my dealer called his Denon Rep and was told Denon is out of 5900's and will not be making anymore until the new 5910. The 5910 will not be stores until November.
I asked about the new 3910 and it will not be in stores until mid-end of September plus the rep told me if I want a 5900 the 3910 is a step down. It was explained to me that the new 3910 has most of the same chips and electronics as the 5900 except the 5900 has a much better chassis, transformer, and transport. I WANT THE 5900!!!!

So...with that in mind I went shopping today and found the Integra universal DVD player and the Pioneer 59i universal player. Compared to the Denon 5900 what do you all think?

Mikes Stuff
McIntosh MC207 Amps.........................DarbyVision Darblet
Marantz AV8801 Processor.................Da-Lite Screen
Klipsch Reference Series 7.2................Panasonic BluRay BDT500
Epson Pro 6010 Projector.....................Sony Playstation used for SACD and BluRay
mdrums is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 04:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What.

The.

Hell. ?!?!

That's what I think. They're really discontinuing that pup? I can't believe it. I suggest if you want it you keep a close eye on Ecost for a refurb.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #3 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 05:09 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 775
I believe Crutchfied and Tweeter still have some new DVD-5900's in stock.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #4 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 06:58 PM
 
Blkout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mdrums
I went to order a Denon 5900 universal DVD player today and my dealer called his Denon Rep and was told Denon is out of 5900's and will not be making anymore until the new 5910. The 5910 will not be stores until November.
I asked about the new 3910 and it will not be in stores until mid-end of September plus the rep told me if I want a 5900 the 3910 is a step down. It was explained to me that the new 3910 has most of the same chips and electronics as the 5900 except the 5900 has a much better chassis, transformer, and transport. I WANT THE 5900!!!!

So...with that in mind I went shopping today and found the Integra universal DVD player and the Pioneer 59i universal player. Compared to the Denon 5900 what do you all think?

Fear not, the Elite 59AVi is superior anyway, not just in image quality but in sound quality and reliability too. You made a good choice. Definately want to take advantage of the HDMI output for best results.
Blkout is offline  
post #5 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 07:22 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
kevinca1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: california
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The 59 is not superior to the 5900 period. The 5900 beat the pioneer in all points, you can get the 5900 off ebay maybe or ecost or crutchfield. you can also do a google search and find some as low as 1519. but beware some will not be warranted by denon.
kevinca1 is offline  
post #6 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mdrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Sorry, I will only buy from a authorized dealer...no ebay or website shanaingans for me. Actually I am getting a great price as my friend is a denon dealer.

Mikes Stuff
McIntosh MC207 Amps.........................DarbyVision Darblet
Marantz AV8801 Processor.................Da-Lite Screen
Klipsch Reference Series 7.2................Panasonic BluRay BDT500
Epson Pro 6010 Projector.....................Sony Playstation used for SACD and BluRay
mdrums is offline  
post #7 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 07:58 PM
umr
AVS Club Gold
 
umr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 10,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 29
mdrums,

Much of my equipment was purchased and sold over ebay and the web. It can be a great resource if you are careful.
umr is offline  
post #8 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 08:36 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
kevinca1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: california
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I understand that was just giving suggetions
kevinca1 is offline  
post #9 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 08:52 PM
Senior Member
 
videoking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Massapequa Park,NY
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thats great. The September 2004 issue of Sterophile Ultimate AV magazine has the Denon 5900 in a review and on the cover of the magazine.

Don't you love these magazines that are almost a year off.

videoking
_________________________

"I hate to disillusion you, but the Batmobile went only thity-two miles an hour" Adam West.
videoking is offline  
post #10 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 10:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
The 5910 will not be stores until November.
I heard next year. Is there any clarification otherwise I'll hold off until then?
Spizz is offline  
post #11 of 35 Old 08-06-2004, 11:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Haven't heard an official date on the 5910 yet, but it is looking to be a killer. BIG NEWS when that one is officially announced.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #12 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 01:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hopefully WMV-HD support, Divx support, No macroblocking, Fast Menu-changing, SACD support for the Denon Link, & no other quirks or problems being the big news :)
Spizz is offline  
post #13 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 01:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I wonder if they killed the 5900 early because there isn't a cost effective fix for macroblocking? 'Course, maybe that means the 5910 will be out sooner. :)

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #14 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 04:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cybersoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
Haven't heard an official date on the 5910 yet, but it is looking to be a killer. BIG NEWS when that one is officially announced.
i've got a hunch it'll have something even better than the FLI2310, have you heard any roumers?
cybersoga is offline  
post #15 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mdrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
About the macroblocking issue.....I viewed a 5900 a while back and it looked awesome even in the dark scenes. Of course the projector and screen were set up perfect as well. I have also read that the macroblocking issue is not what some blow it out of proportion to be. Any comments?

What did Stereophile Ultimate A/V have to say in there Sept. 04 issue about the 5900?

Mikes Stuff
McIntosh MC207 Amps.........................DarbyVision Darblet
Marantz AV8801 Processor.................Da-Lite Screen
Klipsch Reference Series 7.2................Panasonic BluRay BDT500
Epson Pro 6010 Projector.....................Sony Playstation used for SACD and BluRay
mdrums is offline  
post #16 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 06:08 AM
 
Blkout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mdrums
About the macroblocking issue.....I viewed a 5900 a while back and it looked awesome even in the dark scenes. Of course the projector and screen were set up perfect as well. I have also read that the macroblocking issue is not what some blow it out of proportion to be. Any comments?

What did Stereophile Ultimate A/V have to say in there Sept. 04 issue about the 5900?

Well, Denon fans would like you to believe that its not a big deal but those are the same people that would have you believe the chroma bug is rampant on the 59AVi, can't have it both ways.
Blkout is offline  
post #17 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 06:11 AM
 
Blkout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by kevinca1
The 59 is not superior to the 5900 period. The 5900 beat the pioneer in all points, you can get the 5900 off ebay maybe or ecost or crutchfield. you can also do a google search and find some as low as 1519. but beware some will not be warranted by denon.

Opinions vary, you will find just as many people who prefer the 59AVi than the 5900. Having seen both, the 59AVi is superior in my opinion. And since you say the 5900 beats the 59AVi in all points, does that include reliability also? Be careful before you answer......
Blkout is offline  
post #18 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 06:40 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
kevinca1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: california
Posts: 3,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes i do with zero hesitation.
kevinca1 is offline  
post #19 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 08:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally posted by Blkout
Well, Denon fans would like you to believe that its not a big deal but those are the same people that would have you believe the chroma bug is rampant on the 59AVi, can't have it both ways.
The 59AVi had the exact same chroma issues as the 5900. They both have banding with 3-2 improperly flagged material. This really isn't an issue because no matter how you look at it, there should be banding. I don't like flickering with this type of material though, the DVD-2900 suffers from this badly. I don't remember if the 59AVi does or not.

The macroblocking problem with the 5900 is really display dependent. Some displays exaggerate the issue and make the image completely unwatchable (Panasonic Plasmas) while others show no signs of it at all (NEC plasmas, Sony PJs). There are other players that exhibit this same issue including the Samsung 931. You can also have these issues with some Faroudja based PJs.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #20 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 09:28 AM
Member
 
clnconcpts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vail,Az
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well, i'm watching dvd out of the 5900 right now as a loaner from the audio store i buy my stuff from,and so far i dont think i would buy one.8 out of 9 dvds have had a problem with picture problems.i have tried it on auto 1 and auto 2 still does the same thing.i'm hoping to find a great player but havent had much luck.

B&K Ref 50
Gemstone Audio Amp 7 channel
Denon 5900
Dwin TV 3+
Stewart 92"
B&W 803's
B&W htm1
B&W 805's
B&W scm1's
Spl 1200

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043310
clnconcpts is offline  
post #21 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 09:58 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 775
Kris,
Chroma problems aside, one of the concerns raised in Secrets regarding the Pioneer 59avi was it's Y/C Delay failures in both Component and DVI, and the inability to correct these with the user control due to that control having too large a step between settings. This would seem to be something Pioneer could easily address as a running change -- perhaps even just as a quality control issue in manufacturing.

Have you heard anything that would indicate that Pioneer has fixed the Y/C Delay problem in current production runs of the 59avi?

For that matter, have you heard ANYTHING from Pioneer regarding running improvements in the 59avi that would mirror the sort of fixes and improvements that Denon has been making in the 5900 since it first shipped?

It must be a nuisance trying to keep up with such changes -- even just limiting your interest to the most "popular" players. For example, anyone who read the Secrets report on the 5900 and didn't take the time to dig into all the subsequent firmware change discussions here would probably wonder what the heck you were talking about when you said Menu handling on the 5900 was way too slow given what Denon is currently shipping.

Short of getting the manufacturers to ship you a new unit every month to retest and see if anything really changed, I don't know how you can deal with that. Perhaps you could keep a running list of the most "popular" players with an "unproven rumors" listing of things that have been claimed as fixed or improved since you last had a unit in hand to test.

This would have value in it's own right as an indication of which manufacturers are responsive to problem reports within a product line and which let problems linger until an entirely new product is released.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #22 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Haven't heard any word on Pioneer tweaking in the 59AVi issues. The Y/C delay is a problem, but most people don't really notice it. It was a glaring issue with the Zenith player, but I don't hear much about it with the 59AVi. I usually don't revisit a player unless a company seems commited to supporting it, and at this point I haven't seen any kind of indication from Pioneer that this is happening. But who knows, they did support the 563a I think.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally posted by clnconcpts
well, i'm watching dvd out of the 5900 right now as a loaner from the audio store i buy my stuff from,and so far i dont think i would buy one.8 out of 9 dvds have had a problem with picture problems.i have tried it on auto 1 and auto 2 still does the same thing.i'm hoping to find a great player but havent had much luck.
What display are you using? Also, have you re-calibrated your display to this player? Are you sure all of the picture settings are right?

8 out of 9 discs seems drastic. I review DVDs. I have watched easily over 200 discs on the DVD-5900 and I can count the number of times that I have seen artifacts on one hand that associate with the MB issue. And I would consider myself VERY picky about image quality.

I am not trying to say that the player doesn't have issues, but I would question the setup in this case.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #24 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mdrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Ya know...with all the problems most people claim to see with DVD players why don't I see them? Currently I am useing my Sony DVD Recorder as my DVD & CD player and it works very well. Layer change does take a second but that is the only problem I have seen.
Oh by the way I have excellent vision too! ;-)

Mikes Stuff
McIntosh MC207 Amps.........................DarbyVision Darblet
Marantz AV8801 Processor.................Da-Lite Screen
Klipsch Reference Series 7.2................Panasonic BluRay BDT500
Epson Pro 6010 Projector.....................Sony Playstation used for SACD and BluRay
mdrums is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 04:56 PM
Member
 
clnconcpts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vail,Az
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hey kris, what should i re-calibrate. all i have done is adj contrast ,brightness and black levels. everything appears to look good untill this happens. the problem doesnt show up in my cheap free rca player

B&K Ref 50
Gemstone Audio Amp 7 channel
Denon 5900
Dwin TV 3+
Stewart 92"
B&W 803's
B&W htm1
B&W 805's
B&W scm1's
Spl 1200

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043310
clnconcpts is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 06:37 PM
 
Blkout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
The 59AVi had the exact same chroma issues as the 5900. They both have banding with 3-2 improperly flagged material. This really isn't an issue because no matter how you look at it, there should be banding. I don't like flickering with this type of material though, the DVD-2900 suffers from this badly. I don't remember if the 59AVi does or not.

The macroblocking problem with the 5900 is really display dependent. Some displays exaggerate the issue and make the image completely unwatchable (Panasonic Plasmas) while others show no signs of it at all (NEC plasmas, Sony PJs). There are other players that exhibit this same issue including the Samsung 931. You can also have these issues with some Faroudja based PJs.
Understood Kris, I'm simply pointing out the exaggerations that go on sometimes when these players are brought up.
Blkout is offline  
post #27 of 35 Old 08-07-2004, 11:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
I agree, people tend to make mountains out of mole hills. I think a misunderstanding of some of our tests contribute unfortunately. I have been meaning to write a bit of a message about that at Secrets. If you read the benchmark Stacey did a great job of saying exactly why we do the tests we do and what they mean in the big scheme. Unfortunately most people just look at the results and don't think about the big picture.

This is what I was hinting at in the posts I exchanged with you about the 1600 vs the 59. My tests are all based on technical tests using tried and true test patterns. This is why I said that from a TECHNICAL standpoint the 1600 is a better video player then the 59. Now it is up to you to find which one suits your PREFERENCE better. In this case it was the 59, so again, enjoy.

I don't think we will ever have a player that doesn't exhibit the 3-2 alternating flag CUE error. If you look at the reason for it, it has to exist. The issue I have is whether the player flickers or not. I don't remember if the Pioneer does or not. The DVD-2900 does severely, as did the Krell DVD Standard that I first saw it on. The DVD-5900 does not thankfully, but it still has the banding.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #28 of 35 Old 08-08-2004, 02:06 PM
 
egcarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Keaau, Hawaii, USA
Posts: 3,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FYI, the 5910 is $500 more than the 5900. (MSRP: $2499.00)

Eric
egcarter is offline  
post #29 of 35 Old 08-08-2004, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sspears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Sammamish, WA, USA
Posts: 5,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
I don't think we will ever have a player that doesn't exhibit the 3-2 alternating flag CUE error.
The Adcom and other NSC chips pass it when in certain modes. It takes a few seconds to detect and then it locks on properly.
sspears is offline  
post #30 of 35 Old 08-08-2004, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally posted by egcarter
FYI, the 5910 is $500 more than the 5900. (MSRP: $2499.00)

Eric
Yes, and there will be reasons for that.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
Closed Thread DVD Players (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off