Denon 3910 in da house!!! - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 799 Old 09-23-2004, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
It seems to me converting from YCbCr 4:2:0 to 8 bit RGB is a bad thing to do, period
The HDMI doesn´t have to convert to RGB, there´s also an option of YCbCr(4:2:0??), correct? Do any display´s accept this? And is there any evidence that this conversion is actually that "lossy" and noticable?

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post #782 of 799 Old 09-23-2004, 05:54 AM
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HDMI does not support YCbCr 4:2:0, at least according to the spec. 'uzun' was correct. Every DVI output player converts YCbCr 4:2:0 to RGB 4:4:4. What type of loss there is, if any, during conversion - I don't know. If there is I don't know if you could see it. And like 'uzun' said, if your equipment can handle component well, it may be the way to go. My display does an excellent job with component inputs and the difference between component and DVI is only seen in test patterns - basically slightly less "ringing" wrt edges.

Here's some good reading, even though it has very little to do with a 3910. :) http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...eo-9-2000.html

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post #783 of 799 Old 09-23-2004, 07:19 AM
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HDMI supports the following:

The video pixels carried across the link shall be in one of three different pixel encodings: RGB
4:4:4, YCBCR 4:4:4 or YCBCR 4:2:2.

But it can support different bit depths for each one.

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post #784 of 799 Old 09-23-2004, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by uzun
It seems to me converting from YCbCr 4:2:0 to 8 bit RGB is a bad thing to do, period. This is exactly what all DVD players outputting DVI do. Unless you are bypassing your displays inability to handle 480i analog well, it's just not worth it. Especially considering how good a job the 3910 DAC's should do in converting YCbCr 4:2:0 into an analog component signal.

I would think that if your display does a decent job handling analog in, you should never use DVI for DVD due to the lossy downconvert to 8 bit RGB.
It isn't a bad thing as every display uses RGB so it has to be converted at one point or another no matter what. The big advantage of DVI or HDMI is 1:1 pixel matching when available, fewer digital to analog conversions, less filtering.

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post #785 of 799 Old 09-23-2004, 07:36 AM
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Kris,

with 1080p displays.. what would they ideally be fed with DVI/HDMI. Would it likely make a noticable difference if the display were to get 480i(HDMI), 480p, 720p or 1080i(if the display had equal scaling/deinterlacing as the DVD player). I´m wondering how future friendly(for 1080p displays) DVD players are that only have these resolutions(not 480i or 1080p)?

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post #786 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 02:08 PM
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I am new. This is quite a thread.
I am updating my system of 10yrs (Adcom stuff). My plan is to get a surround prepro Rotel 1068. I am thinking of the Denon 3910 too. I have no TV (long story) and not planning on one for awhile, so the video is secondary (will get there in the future and the 3910 sounds like it will hang onto that potential). Will be hanging onto the old amp Adcom GFA 6000, and Polk LS speakers (5+sub) for the time being. So I am interested in audio. I have 1000's of CD and CD-R, and no SACD or DVD-A (yet). I am planning on "moving up" in the hifi world.

Does anyone see any problems with this set-up? Other recommendations? etc.
thanks
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post #787 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 02:35 PM
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Tbondu-

That sounds like it'll be a pretty sweet setup. I use my 3910 with Denon's 3805 almost entirely for music (Stereo CD, SACD, & DVD-Audio). The audio performance is phenomenal, I think you'll be very pleased. The video end of the 3910 is equally impressive, so you'll have something to look forward to when you get yourself a new display. :D

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post #788 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 05:12 PM
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I probably wasn't clear but I think DVI is only a win for fixed pixel digital displays, that can't handle 480i analog inputs as cleanly as they can digital inputs. In that case there's an advantage to doing all the converting in the digital domain.

But on high quality displays featuring a native 480i scanrate, you're almost certainly better off letting the 3910/2910 do the D/A conversion and displaying the 480i analog signal coming out of the player (vs doing a conversion to 8 Bit RGB for DVI). If your set can accept HDMI data in YCbCr format, then it's probably always worth using HDMI regardless of the displays native scan rate capabilities. It's probably only worth scaling to 720p or 1080i if those are the supported native resolutions on your display, and your display does not support a native 480 resolution.
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post #789 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by keyser
Kris,

with 1080p displays.. what would they ideally be fed with DVI/HDMI. Would it likely make a noticable difference if the display were to get 480i(HDMI), 480p, 720p or 1080i(if the display had equal scaling/deinterlacing as the DVD player). I´m wondering how future friendly(for 1080p displays) DVD players are that only have these resolutions(not 480i or 1080p)?
The problem I have seen with most 1080P displays so far is the lack of support for that native resolution being fed into it. This makes it so you have to rely on their internal scaling. From the displays I've seen this may be a bad thing, but I haven't seen them all. Now that their are options coming into the market place soon (Silicon Optix, Lumagen etc) having HDMI that allows for a 480i output is a nice thing to have.

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post #790 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 09:39 PM
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Tbondu- You will eventually need a TV to fully set up the 3910.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #791 of 799 Old 09-26-2004, 10:08 PM
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right. I have a small "kitchen" TV w/ video-in that I was planning on using for set-up. I am assuming that will work. Any other comments? I really appreciate it, as this is a boatload of mullah to lay down.
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post #792 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 07:23 AM
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Uzun, are you saying that if the set accepts HDMI in YCbCr format, we should use that setting over HDMI RGB? My set accepts both, but I don't notice much difference.
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post #793 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 05:51 PM
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Tbondu- That should be all you need. :) Once you've set it up, I don't imagine there's too much more messing with settings. One thing though, you do need a display for "listening" to DVD-A's. Not SACDs, just DVD-A's...

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #794 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 07:32 PM
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Yes, I would recommend using HDMI YCbCr over HDMI RGB, how much of a difference you see would probably depend on the source material, and the quality of your display and calibration, but HDMI YCbCr is presenting the same digital data that's on the DVD directly to your display for decoding. That's about as pure as you can get, and assuming your set handles digital data well it should be as close to perfect as you can get (without getting a separate scalar).
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post #795 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 08:29 PM
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I just got done watching Kill Bill vols I and II on my 3910 and Sony 70XBR950 (via DVI at 1080i).

The House of Blue Leaves (Vol I) fight scene was amazing. I was listening to the DTS soundtrack via the analog connections to my Sony DE995 receiver (soon to be replaced with an Anthem Statement D1/A5 combo). I figured the processors in the 3910 were far superior to the Sony. I found it to be much more clear and bright than the Coax didgtal connection. The sounds in the swordplay were amzing.

The coffin scene in Vol II showed no signs of macroblocking. I did notice that in the comletely black parts, I could see just a highlight on portions of Uma Thurman and I noticed it had a slight green tint to it. I do have the black enhancer on. My setup has not been ISF calibrated yet, that's on my to do list.

Gotta say, I'm very happy with the Denon 3910.
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post #796 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 10:27 PM
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thanks Kevin and Jason. I look forward to setting the baby up.
Sorry for busting in on this thread. I'm getting the jist of the site.
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post #797 of 799 Old 09-27-2004, 11:16 PM
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Tbondu- You're all set posting here. :D Me? I don't have mine yet... But soon...

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #798 of 799 Old 10-03-2004, 05:40 PM
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Good to see posts by Robert George. I ran across this thread looking for info on the DENON 3810. I looked in one at local store on Saturday. I would be using with Marantz S2 DLP projector using DVI. Anyone with this set-up?
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post #799 of 799 Old 10-04-2004, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by swatter911
I just got done watching Kill Bill vols I and II on my 3910 and Sony 70XBR950 (via DVI at 1080i).

The House of Blue Leaves (Vol I) fight scene was amazing. I was listening to the DTS soundtrack via the analog connections to my Sony DE995 receiver (soon to be replaced with an Anthem Statement D1/A5 combo). I figured the processors in the 3910 were far superior to the Sony. I found it to be much more clear and bright than the Coax didgtal connection. The sounds in the swordplay were amzing.

The coffin scene in Vol II showed no signs of macroblocking. I did notice that in the comletely black parts, I could see just a highlight on portions of Uma Thurman and I noticed it had a slight green tint to it. I do have the black enhancer on. My setup has not been ISF calibrated yet, that's on my to do list.

Gotta say, I'm very happy with the Denon 3910.
Greetings,


I watched Kill Bill Vol 2 on my 3910 as well. I also saw no signs of Macroblocking what so ever. I have mine connected via DVI to my Sony HS10 LCD front projector. I have watched scenes from a dozen different discs and have not seen MB as of yet.


Regards,

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