Yamaha S-2500 universal player - DCDi, HDMI, i.Link, video scaling - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:06 PM
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post #92 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:06 PM
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It should be this month...

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #93 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:08 PM
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Wow... That was a fast answer!

I'm looking forward to it.
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post #94 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:12 PM
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I'm rooting for Yamaha to really hit some gold here. That unit is stacked at a $750 MSRP.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #95 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:41 PM
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I'm just hoping for this unit to be the "perfect" one with no crushes, no macrobloking, etc., etc., etc.

I can hardly wait!
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post #96 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GCG
I'm just hoping for this unit to be the "perfect" one with no crushes, no macrobloking, etc., etc., etc.

I can hardly wait!

Anyone have a firm release day for this month yet?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #97 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 08:12 PM
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Yamaha will announce this Thursday for the first day of CES in Vegas all its new products coming for the first half of 2005. I'm sure there will be a few fellow AVS'ers that will be at the event and can report to us when this great dvd player will ship. I hope to get one to. I sure hope this unit will not have the problem with displaying below black when one uses a HDMI to DVI cable as other brands have had problems with. My tv only has a DVI input.

Troy

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post #98 of 623 Old 01-02-2005, 08:23 PM
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Since it uses the same Faroudja chip everyone else is using, I wouldn't expect it to be any better then what is out there already.

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post #99 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
Since it uses the same Faroudja chip everyone else is using, I wouldn't expect it to be any better then what is out there already.

True, but at an MSRP of $750, it's going to be a nice fetch, especially for the deal makers, street prices, and so forth.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #100 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris Deering
Since it uses the same Faroudja chip everyone else is using, I wouldn't expect it to be any better then what is out there already.

Well said!

I can bet $1 that at best it may match the performance of the Denon 2910


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post #101 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ssabripo
Well said!

I can bet $1 that at best it may match the performance of the Denon 2910

Price point and features, it seems geared to be a direct competitor to the Denon 2910.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #102 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 08:24 AM
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this is interesting. sounds good. i have been holding out on a new player for the last 2 months. i guess i can wait another 2 months to see if this one does well, especially for the price. right now i'm using a denon 2200. it has a great picture, and i just can't see myself spending $1,000 for a new player.
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post #103 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 04:41 PM
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It will be interesting once this player gets out and reviewed. I have read reviews of the differences of I-link vs 5.1 analog outputs for audio as a night and day difference. Like going from standard tv to high def tv. Weather thats true who knows until they actually experience I-link themselves and with this player at msrp of $749 many more people will be able to enjoy I-link. (as long as they have an I-link equipped preamp or receiver).
The real question will be is there a sound difference on this lowest priced I-link player on the market vs a $1,300 Denon 3910 or a $3,000 player using an I-link/firewire connection? My guess is no. Digital is digital. I would assume the sound differences would be in the preamp or receiver the I-link is hooked to?
What are your thoughts?

Kudos to Yamaha for coming out with a sub $1,000 I-link player. Wait its not here yet. Yamaha has been known for delays in product launches. I just hope the player is decent with low bugs in it. That is no firmware updates needed. One would think these manufacturers would have this dvd player thing figured out buy now.

Maybe CES will see other manufacturers come out with sub $1,000 I-link players.

Troy
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post #104 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 04:50 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Troytn
It will be interesting once this player gets out and reviewed. I have read reviews of the differences of I-link vs 5.1 analog outputs for audio as a night and day difference. Like going from standard tv to high def tv.



I find that extremely hard to believe, under any circumstance.


Quote:



The real question will be is there a sound difference on this lowest priced I-link player on the market vs a $1,300 Denon 3910 or a $3,000 player using an I-link/firewire connection? My guess is no. Digital is digital. I would assume the sound differences would be in the preamp or receiver the I-link is hooked to?
What are your thoughts?



Some would argue that digital isn't always "just digital" due to quality of components, manufactering methods, engineering, etc. etc.

Quote:




Kudos to Yamaha for coming out with a sub $1,000 I-link player. Wait its not here yet. Yamaha has been known for delays in product launches. I just hope the player is decent with low bugs in it. That is no firmware updates needed. One would think these manufacturers would have this dvd player thing figured out buy now.



They need to have it come out this month. Any more delays really hurts this unit's prospects.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #105 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 05:49 PM
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The fact that I-Link signals still have to be converted to analog says that the difference might not be that great. If the players analog stage and decoding is better then the receivers (which tends to be the case with higher end models) then you would probably still want the player to do its thing.

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post #106 of 623 Old 01-03-2005, 11:14 PM
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Kudos to Yamaha for coming out with a sub $1,000 I-link player.

Pioneer has one too: the 59AVi. Not too tough to find one less than $1k street these days.

I just had a thought. If the Yamaha is going to use Faroudja, maybe the delay is that during beta testing, they encountered macroblocking and are now trying to minimize/eliminate it?

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.


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post #107 of 623 Old 01-04-2005, 03:10 AM
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Sure you can find a street price on the 59AVi for under $1000. But most of the very lowest "street" prices that are from unauthorized sources, are still about $100 more than the MSRP of the new S-2500. So if you take into account that the Yamaha will also have lower street pricing, then you are also back to the S-2500 probably being around $200-$300 less than the 59AVi again.
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post #108 of 623 Old 01-04-2005, 06:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Pioneer has one too: the 59AVi. Not too tough to find one less than $1k street these days.

I just had a thought. If the Yamaha is going to use Faroudja, maybe the delay is that during beta testing, they encountered macroblocking and are now trying to minimize/eliminate it?

I wouldn't count on it. They had this unit at CEDIA and said it wouldn't be around until this year. I don't expect them to have a workaround for the MB problem since no one else has been able to figure one out.

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post #109 of 623 Old 01-04-2005, 08:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Johnla
Sure you can find a street price on the 59AVi for under $1000. But most of the very lowest "street" prices that are from unauthorized sources, are still about $100 more than the MSRP of the new S-2500. So if you take into account that the Yamaha will also have lower street pricing, then you are also back to the S-2500 probably being around $200-$300 less than the 59AVi again.


True, but a bird in the hand beats two in the bush. We know the 59avi is capable video and audiowise. Will the 2500 pony up? that's unknown.
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post #110 of 623 Old 01-04-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Troytn
It will be interesting once this player gets out and reviewed. I have read reviews of the differences of I-link vs 5.1 analog outputs for audio as a night and day difference.

I too have heard that this is the case... and if I understand correctly (at least with respect to Red Book CD) it is related to i-link being a completely jitter free connection. I think it even eliminates the clock from the chain, and this is often the weak-point of a cd/dvd player, and the reason people like Arcam use seperate dedicated clocks for CD playback.

Perhaps this 'night and day' difference is most notable on Red Book playback.
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post #111 of 623 Old 01-04-2005, 11:18 PM
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i-link being a completely jitter free connection. ... Perhaps this 'night and day' difference is most notable on Red Book playback.

I don't think jitter isn't the reason. Home Cinema Choice tested the audio jitter of the 868, the European version of the 59AVi, and they got something like 158 ps for jitter. That is *very* good. For whatever reason, Pioneer players always do well with jitter. I have seen tests of their CD players and even CD burners with really good jitter numbers (this goes back 8 years or so). I have also seen good numbers for the 3910 and the Onkyo 1000.

Plus, i.Link *can* be a jitterless connection, but isn't necessarily. You only get a jitterless connection by mating a Sony player to a Sony receiver with HATs (or something) engaged, or with a Pioneer player and receiver with PLQS (or something) engaged. There is a specific handshaking that must happen between both units to sync their clocks, and that doesn't necessarily happen with units from different manufacturers.

Also ... in each case where someone has compared the i.Link connection to 5.1 analog, neither of the following has been specified (that I remember):

a) Were the audio output levels matched to within 0.1 dB to create a fair test? Well known that a small difference in level can cause a person to think that a signal is "better" sounding, when it might not be.

b) Since i.Link brings the signal to the receiver digitally, that means the signal might be undergoing some kind of BM *and* TA in the receiver. Again, for the test to be fair, both the 5.1 analog output and the receiver's processing must be setup for "all large, sub on" with all speakers set to the same distance.

Obviously, i.Link's big benefit is being able to use the BM/TA processing in the receiver, and that creates a *different* set of audible benefits. But from purely an audio signal quality standpoint, at best, you are simply comparing the DACs in the player to the DACs in the receiver. Some player's DACs are better, some receiver's DACs are better, but that has nothing to do with i.Link itself.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.


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post #112 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 09:04 AM
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Any news from CES regarding this player? Anyone seen it?
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post #113 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 09:25 AM
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No press releases as of yet from Yamaha from CES......I just looked at the CES site
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post #114 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 09:56 AM
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No press releases as of yet from Yamaha from CES......I just looked at the CES site

??

Their release is out. It is dated Jan 3rd.
January release. $749 MSRP.
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post #115 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 10:08 AM
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I went to the CES website and punched in YAHAMA into their search bar and it came up with no press or product announcement releases for the 2500?
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post #116 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 10:11 AM
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Pick a better source for information.

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/
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post #117 of 623 Old 01-06-2005, 01:09 PM
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Thanks Rob. I looked at the CES; couldn't find anything in Yahoo either. That's good news.
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post #118 of 623 Old 01-07-2005, 07:27 AM
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Bump for RONM.

You'll find all the links you need about this unit in this thread.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #119 of 623 Old 01-08-2005, 10:59 PM
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Well, i've got one on order from a friend who works at Yamaha. He told me i won't be able to get it until February. Then again, maybe fulfilling employee orders are 2nd priority. Hope not!
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post #120 of 623 Old 01-09-2005, 05:40 AM
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I checked with 2 Yamaha retailers and they can not give me any date. Nothing showing in their system yet. Not a good sign. If anyone else hears or finds them available let us know.

Troy
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