Denon 3910 Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 12:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by keenan
If you are using a 3805 with a 3910 and are going to use the Denon Link connection, these source material changes can be automated for you.

......

Jim

Jim - thanks this is exactly the type of solution I was wondering about. I'll definitely try it out.

However, can anyone provide a rationale/reason for using an analog connection exclusively between the 3910 & 3805? Is there any reason why someone would choose to do that vs. switch between digital for DVDs & CDs & analog for SACDs?

Dave
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post #182 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 01:12 PM
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The DAC's and audio section of the 3910 are superior to what's found in the 3805. For that reason you might want to go analog only. The problem is that equalization etc has to be set using the 3910, since the 3805 will bypass it's equalization, room settings when you use analog in.
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post #183 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 01:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hallibee
Jim - thanks this is exactly the type of solution I was wondering about. I'll definitely try it out.

However, can anyone provide a rationale/reason for using an analog connection exclusively between the 3910 & 3805? Is there any reason why someone would choose to do that vs. switch between digital for DVDs & CDs & analog for SACDs?

It depends on which device "sounds" better, I have a 5900 and I think it sounds better doing the work decoding than the 3805 on CDs. With SACD analog is your only choice. With movie material and DVD-A I just let the DL carry the signals and let the 3805 do the decoding. I don't listen to many DVD-A titles anyway and with movies I'm not going to bother trying to discern the small difference between the player and the receiver.

It's all personal preference but I recommend you listen to them both ways and decide for yourself. Since these players provide an extra set of LR outputs it's easy to switch on the fly using the 3805 remote.

Jim
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post #184 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 01:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by uzun
The problem is that equalization etc has to be set using the 3910, since the 3805 will bypass it's equalization, room settings when you use analog in.

Only on the Ext Inputs, when using any pair of stereo inputs the DSP functions and BM are all there if one chooses to use them.

Jim
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post #185 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 02:24 PM
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Kris Deering (Secrets of Home Theater) came out with the latest DVD shootout. The DVD-3910 did the best out of all the other players:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...h&articles=120
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post #186 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx for the info, and link.
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post #187 of 7503 Old 10-06-2004, 09:26 PM
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I have been testing my 3910 vs 5900 all afternoon and night. So far the 3910 has been vonsistently better than the 5900, I have seen NO MB with the 3910 where I have seen it on the 5900. Explain that one DENON! Anyway, I have also been experimenting with the DVI-DVI and the HDMI-DVI settings. I haven't finished judging that yet though. Normal black level with IRE set to 0 seems to be the best so far, but I still have yet to make my mind up completely. When it is set to 7.5 I do see alot of the black=crush in many darker scenes or day scenes with shadows. I know it should be the same signal going out, but thus far the HDMI-DVI seems a little more colorful or lively that the DVI-DVI output. I know logicaly you should stick with DVI-DVI when possible. Has anyone else out there found the HDMI to DVI setting the best for them? I will be doing alot more testing tomorrow. After further adjusting I may be able to get them the same. I do agree with the 3910 being able to sharpen 15-20% better than the 5900. I do not still know if it is worth getting the 3910 if you already have the 5900 though. I do like having format and HDMI?DVI buttons on the remote though. There are a few other nicer options that the 3910 does have that the 5900 does not. As far as audio goes though, the 5900 is superior. But I want a dvd player for pic Q not really audio. I have a 5803A to handle my audio! So I really am concerned about the picture! More later...

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post #188 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 04:25 AM
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Is there a way to turn off the on screen display for "play" "pause" etc?
I scanned the menu and the owners manual but only saw a couple of things related. I switched them around and they didn't work.

The Secrets review of the 3910 confirmed what I was thinking about this player. It is an awesome piece of equipment. While it still costs a lot of money, I felt a lot better about buying this one rather than the 5900 at 2 grand, especially considering the HD players could be coming out in 2 years or less.

Steve
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post #189 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 05:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I have been testing my 3910 vs 5900 all afternoon and night. So far the 3910 has been vonsistently better than the 5900, I have seen NO MB with the 3910 where I have seen it on the 5900. Explain that one DENON! Anyway, I have also been experimenting with the DVI-DVI and the HDMI-DVI settings. I haven't finished judging that yet though. Normal black level with IRE set to 0 seems to be the best so far, but I still have yet to make my mind up completely. When it is set to 7.5 I do see alot of the black=crush in many darker scenes or day scenes with shadows. I know it should be the same signal going out, but thus far the HDMI-DVI seems a little more colorful or lively that the DVI-DVI output. I know logicaly you should stick with DVI-DVI when possible. Has anyone else out there found the HDMI to DVI setting the best for them? I will be doing alot more testing tomorrow. After further adjusting I may be able to get them the same. I do agree with the 3910 being able to sharpen 15-20% better than the 5900. I do not still know if it is worth getting the 3910 if you already have the 5900 though. I do like having format and HDMI?DVI buttons on the remote though. There are a few other nicer options that the 3910 does have that the 5900 does not. As far as audio goes though, the 5900 is superior. But I want a dvd player for pic Q not really audio. I have a 5803A to handle my audio! So I really am concerned about the picture! More later...

Greetings,


I have been going back and forth with my setup as well. I have mine connected to my LCD front projector via DVI-DVI. I am trying to determine whether 7.5 IRE/Black level Enhanced or 0 IRE/Normal looks better. My biggest issue is that the 3910 seems to be significantly brighter than my 2900 ( which was obviously connected via component ). So far though the 0 IRE/Normal Black level seems to look the best. I have even tried 0 IRE/Enhanced Black level and then calibrated from there. I get a very nice picture as well however blacker than black is not passed this way.

I will leave it at 0 IRE/Normal Black level for a few days and see. Overall picture quality is excellent. I would say that it looks just a little better than my 2900. Overall I am very pleased with the 3910.


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post #190 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 05:31 AM
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joerodcowboys,
Kris Deering reported black crush when going HDMI/DVI (and no black crush with DVI/DVI or HDMI/HDMI). On the other hand, just go with whatever looks best to you. I just got mine yesterday, and look forward to setting it up and enjoying this fantastic player (I can't see spending so much more for the 5900, and I got it for less than I could get the 59ai locally, so it was a no brainer).
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post #191 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 05:36 AM
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joerodcowboys and placidman

In making your comparisons between the 3910, 5900 and 2900, please look at DVE, title 12, chapter 19.

How does the edge enhancement around the circle compare between the default settings for sharpness between the players you're comparing.

I'm trying to track down if the additional sharpness reported on the 3910 has more to do with the default sharpness settings being changed (i.e. 3910 default sharpness of "0" is similar to the 5900's setting of "~+5")

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post #192 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 08:46 AM
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Greetings,


JimP, when I get a chance later I will take a look at that.


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post #193 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 09:51 AM
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Me too. I will check it out soon...

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post #194 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 11:36 AM
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Is there a firmware fix for the DVI YC delay from Denon as noted by Kris in his review?
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post #195 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 11:45 AM
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Nevermind - I called Denon today and they are issuing it for those who call.
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post #196 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 12:57 PM
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Greetings,

I obtained the firmware fix last week and can confirm that it fixes the problem with Y/C delay.


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post #197 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 01:48 PM
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Questions:

1. I have the TH-42PX25U on loan and the only output that does not show bad macroblocking is the 480i over the component inputs.
2. Calibrated with the Avia DVD everyone is very pink. Anyone have any settings that I should try.
3. Does the new firmware address anything else?

The firmware is on it's way and I took the opportunity to ask the guy about macroblocking and he got a little upset (too many calls on that I guess) and basically said that there was nothing they could do and that it depended on the type of display that I was using. I just don't understand how a different display is going to remove the little baddies that the 3910 has added. Maybe on a CRT display with better blacks and more colors or are the ones that you don't see it on just have the brightness turned down? I don't know, I want to keep the 3910 but

Thanks for any information.

Richard
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post #198 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 01:54 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by No Clue
Is there a way to turn off the on screen display for "play" "pause" etc?
I scanned the menu and the owners manual but only saw a couple of things related. I switched them around and they didn't work.

Steve

Anybody know of a way to do this? Primarily, I don't want to see the commands flash on screen whenever they are issued.

Steve
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post #199 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 02:03 PM
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What Denon number did you call to ask for the firmware fix?

Thanks
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post #200 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 02:22 PM
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I called 1-973-396-7499.
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post #201 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 02:40 PM
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I called earlier today and they are shipping me out a DVI y/c firmware upgrade as well. I also talked to tech support about the DVI-DVI and the HDMI-DVI outputs and one said since HDMI does have a little more bandwidth that it could possibly look a little better. The other said No way, they are the same. So which is it again???? DVI to DVI or use HDMI to DVI??? Where's KRIS DEERING when you need a tough one answered???

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post #202 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 09:18 PM
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Subtitles On The Fly?

I've been comparing the Onkyo SP-1000 to the Denon 3910 and I was fooling around with the subtitles while watching the film, "Ghost World." On the Onkyo, I can turn the subtitles off and on while the film is playing, however, the Denon gives me a "Can't Do" icon while the film is playing. I then stopped the film and tried to put the subtitles on, but, again, got the "Can't Do" icon. To make the subtitles appear, I had to cycle back to the top menu of the film and select it from the Subtitles menu on the DVD.

Is this a quirk of the Denon or a quirk of the DVD? Anyone have any experience with this? TIA
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post #203 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 09:57 PM
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I have the 3910, and I can turn on and off the subtitles while the film is playing.
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post #204 of 7503 Old 10-07-2004, 10:15 PM
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Joerodcowboys,
HDMI is backward compatible to DVI but has some additional flexibility for the future, including the OPTION to transmit at higher bandwidth (actually higher bit depth). Even if your display has an HDMI input, you are unlikely to have a display which can take advantage of the additional flexibility today.

When you hook up an HDMI source to and HDMI display, a handshake is performed to make sure the source and display are using the best possible bandwidth for both of them -- but TODAY that is almost always identical to just what a DVI connection would use. When you hook up an HDMI source to a DVI display a handshake is performed which always puts the connection in DVI mode.

Thus although the HDMI circuit is CAPABLE of higher bandwidth, when used with any DVI display, or even the commonly available HDMI displays today, the HDMI circuit won't actually USE that higher bandwidth. It will, instead, act just like a DVI to DVI connection.
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post #205 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 04:38 AM
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I know what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. I also appreciate your reply. I am getting that Y/C color firmware sent be DENON today that effects the DVI output. I think that is why the HDMI has better color. Because when it comes from the HDMI output, the colors are stronger ,ore natural like, and when they come from the DVI they are not as intense. My big example is Monster's Inc. I can tell a difference between them with that movie. Maybe after the firmware is added the DVI will be the same as the HDMI. At this point, it doesn't really matter which one I use, as long as the picture is optima;...Joe

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post #206 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 04:57 AM
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Joerodcowboys

When you said that the color over HDMI is better, are you saying that it is more intense or more accurate(or both)?

Did you ever get a chance to check the edge enhancement between the 3910 and the 5900?

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post #207 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 05:20 AM
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I think it is both. The DVI does have a color issue like Kris mentions and until I get their (DENON's) firmware I will not be able to tell if the DVI can look as good as the HDMI. Denon has told me that they are supposed to be equal, and that the y/c is holding the DVI back a bit. I understand about the handshake rule between your outputs to inputs, but when the source comes directly from the HDMI it doesn't have the y/c problem that it does when it comes from the dvi. Anyway, maybe I have one of those "MAGICAL" units. I did and still am able to test the 5900 against the 3910. The 3910 has more options that help tweak the picture a bit more. They are both very close but I am still giving the nod to the 3910. Edge Enhancement is nearly identical. But keep in mind the 3910 has a more consistent sharp level 15%-20% better than the 5900. Why? Denon has said they addressed problem areas that effected the 5900 and they tweaked the parts for the 3910. That being said the 3910 is everything the 5900 should have been. If not then why did DENON discontinue the 5900 already with the 5910 not available for months to come? Granted the audio on the 5900 is superior to the 3910, but as I said before, I want a dvd player for PIC Q. I have the 5803 upgraded to A to worry about the audio...

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post #208 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 05:44 AM
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joerodcowboy

Thanks for responding.

Sounds like the 3910 is the unit to get, but I'd sure hate to give up anything on the sound.

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post #209 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 05:50 AM
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The 3910 is NO slouch in the audio department though. It has many options there as well. It may not have all the guts of the 5900 but many non audiophiles would not be able to tell the difference.

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post #210 of 7503 Old 10-08-2004, 06:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tanquen2000
I called 1-973-396-7499.

Thanks.

BTW - does anyone know how to determine what firmware version is in the 3910? Is there a special key combination to determine that?
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