Pioneer 59avi vs Denon dvd-3910 - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 407 Old 12-09-2004, 11:50 PM
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I have found that a nice ale aids in equipment selection decisions! ;)

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.


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post #392 of 407 Old 12-10-2004, 12:58 AM
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You guys are starting to make me have buyers remorse - on the popcorn method that I use for my home theater! Must go back to the archives and do some more research!!!

Darn you guys!

Just a little puppy trying to make it in a big digital world.
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post #393 of 407 Old 12-12-2004, 08:32 AM
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One point that has been made many times is the importance of the display. Many favorable comments come from users with very high end displays. I have an 8700+ and a Bravo D1, which continues to be very problematic (the D1). I'm very pleased with the 720p image over DVI but am tired of all the D1 glitches. I would like a better, more reliable player and am considering the 59avi. I know it would be much more reliable but will I see an improvement in the picture on my Benq?
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post #394 of 407 Old 12-12-2004, 08:49 AM
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My Bravo D1 took a dump one month after the warranty expired, otherwise I would have made it part of the shootout with the Denon, Pioneer and Onkyo.


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post #395 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 12:41 PM
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I've got a 59avi and a 3910 in my possession now if anyone would like me to try anything. Ive got them hooked up to an optoma H77 through a Lumagen HDP. I'll be doing some 480i comparisons over component and 480p over HDMI/DVI for sure, other than that i'm open to suggestions.

John
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post #396 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 02:57 PM
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Expletive, our projectors are similar as they both use the HD2+ chip. Any way you can get a Bravo D1 or Momitsu to compare to the 3910 and 59avi?
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post #397 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 04:00 PM
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Kris, Please respond...Is the 480i hdmi output from a Pioneer 59avi the same as a 480i sdi output from a Denon 5900 or 3910 ? thanks!
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post #398 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Expletive
I've got a 59avi and a 3910 in my possession now if anyone would like me to try anything. Ive got them hooked up to an optoma H77 through a Lumagen HDP. I'll be doing some 480i comparisons over component and 480p over HDMI/DVI for sure, other than that i'm open to suggestions.

John
Is that pj's native resolution 720p?

If so, I would certainly do the majority of comparison at 720p via HDMI. Look for any differences in noise, sharpness, clarity, edge enhancement etc. and let us know what you find!

Thanks!


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post #399 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 04:16 PM
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HDMI does YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 with up to 12bit color component precision. SDI outputs YCbCr 4:2:0 from the MPEG decoder.


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post #400 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 04:26 PM
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So Jeff what you are saying is that 480i over hdmi is superior to any sdi output?
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post #401 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by steviec
So Jeff what you are saying is that 480i over hdmi is superior to any sdi output?
I think he's saying that SDI is a direct output from MPEG decoder, while HDMI through some post-processing.
<When did I become an interpreter?> ;)
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post #402 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 06:05 PM
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I first thought that SDI output YCrCr 4:2:0, but then after reading the Secrets article on the "Chroma Upsampling Error" which can happen when the MPEG decoder is upsampling to make YCbCr 4:2:0 into YCbCr 4:2:2. So now I believe that SDI outputs 4:2:2 which is what comes out of the MPEG decoder. Interesting reading and easy to understand: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ug-4-2001.html So, HDMI YCbCr 480i and SDI output should be the same data. With HDMI you may get a choice of YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. The MPEG decoder will only output one or the other for SDI.

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post #403 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 06:07 PM
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AFAIK HDMI should can be identical to SDI. The problem is it can also not be, correct me if im wrong but dont most HDMI solutions currently output 4:4:4. which would make them inferior to SDI for DVD use.

An HDMI projector does have an advantage if implemented correctly, some dvd players have 10 or 12 bit mpeg decoders, if the HDMI output uses the same 10 or 12 bit YCbCr ouput then it could manage a tiny improvement in colour over SDI (Most current digital displays cannot display more than 8bit colour though).

SDI has longer cable lengths and no HDCP though so if cost is no issue I'd go SDI every time for DVD use.
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post #404 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 06:12 PM
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Krobar that is what I thought.
So sdi is still the preferred way to input 480i into a scaler until we are sure of what exactly the hdmi of a particular player is outputting.
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post #405 of 407 Old 12-13-2004, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krobar
AFAIK HDMI should can be identical to SDI. The problem is it can also not be, correct me if im wrong but dont most HDMI solutions currently output 4:4:4. which would make them inferior to SDI for DVD use.

An HDMI projector does have an advantage if implemented correctly, some dvd players have 10 or 12 bit mpeg decoders, if the HDMI output uses the same 10 or 12 bit YCbCr ouput then it could manage a tiny improvement in colour over SDI (Most current digital displays cannot display more than 8bit colour though).

SDI has longer cable lengths and no HDCP though so if cost is no issue I'd go SDI every time for DVD use.
The data on the DVD is 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. The MPEG decoder will upsample into 8bit YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. You may be thinking of video DACs that upsample using 10, 12, and now 14bits at 216Mhz(?). This is for analog output. HDMI can transmit YCbCr 4:2:2 and YCbCr 4:4:4 with 8, 10, or 12bit color components.

larry

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post #406 of 407 Old 12-14-2004, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mskreis
Expletive, our projectors are similar as they both use the HD2+ chip. Any way you can get a Bravo D1 or Momitsu to compare to the 3910 and 59avi?
Nope, sorry.

John
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post #407 of 407 Old 12-14-2004, 10:56 AM
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I thought MPEG decoders often ran at 10/12bit to avoid rounding errors, by using a 12bit transfer you would avoid reintroducing those errors. Af far as I remember with the right SDI mod you connect 10 data wires to give 10 bit, the problem is that all consumer video processors only accept an 8bit SDI signal.

Edit : Tidied up 10bit SDI info and heres proof of 10bit output from the Denon 5900 Decoder:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...157&fullpage=1
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