Pioneer 59avi vs Denon dvd-3910 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 08:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sergiohm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quoting from the SONY literature about HATS:

"The i.LINK digital output is compatible with the i.LINK digital input on
Sony's own STR-DA9000ES as well as a growing number of outboard D/A
converters from other high-end audio companies. The i.LINK interface
maintains the signal in the digital domain and can protect the signal from
repeated D/A and A/D conversions. The i.LINK interface also enables a single digital cable to take the place of six analog cables."

"The design of the interface is exceptional because communicating six
streams of 2.8224 MHz digital samples raises exceptional challenges.
Conveying 1-bit signals at such high data rates and synchronizing the signals with the other component's master clock would normally expose the signal to the time-base errors called jitter. These errors translate directly into time-based distortion of the audio waveform."

"The connection from the SCD-XA9000ES to the STR-DA9000ES receiver
overcomes this challenge with the High quality digital Audio Transmission System (HATS). HATS uses "command-based rate control of isochronous data flow" to solve the problem. The system incorporates three principal elements.
1. Variable-speed transmission from the player.
2. Buffer memory in the receiver.
3. Command signals from the receiver to the player, controlling transmission
speed.
The receiver continually monitors the amount of audio data in its buffer
memory. When the buffer memory reaches its lower limit, the receiver
commands the player to increase data transmission speed. When the buffer
memory reaches its upper limit, the receiver commands the player to decrease transmission speed. And when the buffer memory is between the upper and lower limits, the receiver commands the player to transmit at normal speed.
In this way, HATS makes it unnecessary to synchronize a jitter-prone
signal with the receiver master clock. Instead, the buffer memory outputs a
jitter-free signal at the full quartz-crystal accuracy of the receiver's master clock.
You get all the benefits of digital transmission, without exposing the signal to the potential for jitter-induced distortion."

I assume PQLS is similar although I have not found detailed info by Pioneer on the subject.

Reading it again leads me to suppose the receiver is doing all the work for HATS so, question is, who is implementing PQLS ? Is it the receiver (49TXi/59TXi/55TXi/56TXi)? Or is the player doing part of the implementation as well:confused:
sergiohm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 09:07 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Thanks, Sergiohm. I would think both ends of the connection would have to "support" HATS or PQLS. Also, didn't you at one time in the past report that you tried 2 different i.Link players (sony and elite?) into the same receiver (49txi?) and heard a difference?

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #183 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Krobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,965
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Bob,

I compared with Redbook CD obviously SACD or DVD-A comparisons would not be valid.

Sergiohm,

The DVD player has to do an equal amount of work so it requires the support of Player and Reciever. There is reference to Pioneer, Sony, Denon and Yamaha using the same system and a good desciption by Dr1394 here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-22882.html

Of course just because one manufacturers player supports it does not mean it will necessarily enable with a competitors product.
Krobar is offline  
post #184 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 10:03 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 802
Krobar,
Interesting! So you found a significant audible difference for regular CDs according to whether you were using traditional digital connections vs. I-link? And thus, as you say, PQLS should be the only technical difference.

Somehow I was under the impression that this PQLS stuff was only supposed to have a significant impact at the higher bit rates for DVD-A or SACD.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #185 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 10:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Krobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,965
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Blind testing, friend picking between inputs randomly (Sometimes not changing them) I picked the I-Link as better everytime (except where the two compared inputs were the same). Thus I feel confident I can hear the difference but I would not be able to tell if it was I-Link unless compring to Coax. Its an audible but not "night and day" type difference.
Krobar is offline  
post #186 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 11:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sergiohm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally posted by PooperScooper
Thanks, Sergiohm. I would think both ends of the connection would have to "support" HATS or PQLS. Also, didn't you at one time in the past report that you tried 2 different i.Link players (sony and elite?) into the same receiver (49txi?) and heard a difference?

larry
Yes I did hear a difference much to my surprise. Guess the better SONY transport may make a difference. Who knows :D
sergiohm is offline  
post #187 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 12:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Has anyone been able to use a DVI or HDMI switcher with this product. I spoke to someone at dtronics, who said Pioneer software didn't take into account that people would use a switcher with this product, so if you don't run the signal directly to the monitor/projector, it won't sync up (handshake) with the monitor/projector.

If you have had luck placing a switcher between the 59avi and your projector, please post which switcher you are using and whether it's DVI or HDMI.

Thanks
Ron

"Retired" AVS Moderator
rboster is online now  
post #188 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 12:44 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 802
I'm using a 4x1 Dtronics switcher between the HDMI output of a Pioneer Elite 59avi DVD player and the DVI input of a Fujitsu P50 plasma.

I find that when switching to the DVD player from another active source the signal is sometimes (about 50/50) subtly wrong. It's not so obvious as complete snow. Rather the signal has a patchiness in blacks and dark reds that I would normally associate with some sort of loss of bit depth or improper black bias.

Apparently what's going on is that the re-handshake is not being properly accomplished when the Fujitsu is suddenly switched from one source to another. I don't know if the problem is in the display, the dvd player or the switch box, but frankly I suspect it is the Dtronics switch box.

In any event, there is an easy workaround for this: Power cycle the Fujitsu display after switching sources.

That is, switch the 59avi into the circuit, then put the Fujitsu into standby until the blue HDMI light on the 59avi turns off, then turn the Fujitsu back on again.

By making sure the handshake has to be redone from scratch in this fashion I get a clean signal through the switchbox every time.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #189 of 407 Old 10-15-2004, 01:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 17,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Bob: I appreciate the response, the only problem with my situation is I'm using a Yammy LCD projector, which may not be the best to turn off the projector, then turn the projector back on (since there isn't a stand by mode).

I have tried turn on the Pioneer on first, then powering up the projector. I've tried powering up the Pioneer after the projector is one first. I've switched the from a non-used input to the pioneer input while the projector is on.

DTronics says it a firmware problem in the Pioneer.
Pioneer says it's the switcher and the problem is the switcher is DVI-D, which makes no sense.
Digital connections and I are caught in the middle and I may just have to return the switcher.

This is an issue for others to think about when comparing the 59avi with the Denon 3910. I love the Pioneer and I wasn't planning on buying this player, but $ circumstances allowed me to do both proj. and player. Very happy with the PQ, which is the most important factor.

"Retired" AVS Moderator
rboster is online now  
post #190 of 407 Old 10-16-2004, 01:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
P'scooper- A coax connection between player and receiver, pre/pro is not analog. Coax is digital, just like optical Toslink. PCM for CD, DD for DD, and DTS for DTS. Not analog.

Krobar- When you did your comparision, did you make sure levels were matched to within 0.1dB? A lot of times changing the interface can change the output level which can give the *appearence* of a difference, when it's just the level that's different.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #191 of 407 Old 10-16-2004, 03:43 PM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Kevin,
You are correct, but I didn't explain myself the way I intended to distinguish between coax and firewire. Coax does carry "bits" but these bits are represented by a waveform. Clocking is critical to sample the waveform at the correct point in time to make sure you read the bits the way they were sent. I called it analog because it's a waveform at a certain frequency. With firewire, the "user" just sends the bits as packets and the receiver reads them as the same. The underlying transport of firewire takes care of all the hard work. :) From looking at DR1394 traces, it looks like to me that "clocking packets" can be used also to keep both ends in synch.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #192 of 407 Old 10-17-2004, 12:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Are you sure? Everything I've read indicates that PCM is PCM (for example) whether it's transmitted by coax or i.Link. IOW, it's the same exact data stream, just a different cable carrying the data. Plus, I don't see where a "waveform" comes in for coax. The zero's and one's of a digital signal are created by modulating the voltage.

But you bring up an interresting point, if true. Because AC-3 (DD) and DTS digital signals are "packeted", they are actually immune from jitter. Most people are not aware of that. So if indeed a digital signal (SACD, DVD-A included) being transmitted via i.Link is "packeted", then jitter is not a concern anyway. ??

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #193 of 407 Old 10-17-2004, 03:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dr1394's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mizar 5
Posts: 3,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
I don't know why the PQLS would be so important unless it has something
to do with buffering or flow control. Where's DR1394?
I'm here. Just got back from the local watering hole. PQLS is all about
buffering and flow control.

The basic concept is to use an extremely low jitter crystal at the receiver
to generate the DAC clock. PQLS controls the rate of the bitstream delivered
from the player to match the phase of this clock (by just keeping track of
a whether a local buffer is slowly overflowing or underflowing). When the
buffer "watermarks" are hit, the receiver sends a message to the player to
slow down or speed up the transmission of audio packets over 1394. Here's a
post where I actually measured the player (Pioneer DV-47Ai) changing rate:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...77#post2898777

PQLS is not used when there's video associated with the audio, such as AC3, DTS
or LPCM from a DVD-V disc. This is to avoid lip-sync issues that would be
caused by the rate control buffer.

As for whether PQLS is active with other brands of players, that's a tough one
to comment on. The only way to truly verify what's going on is to hook up
a 1394 bus analyzer and see if the player is accepting or rejecting the rate
control commands. I did buy a Denon 5900 to check this out, but as everyone
knows, the early 5900's didn't work at all on 1394. I suppose I could send it
back for the upgrade, but I'm too lazy.:(

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
dr1394 is offline  
post #194 of 407 Old 10-17-2004, 05:35 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Kevin,
Yes, the same data is sent in both cases. I guess my way of "visualizing" and describing how SPDIF or AES/EBU differs from i.Link just may be splitting hairs as it relates to the discussion and my interpretation of why SPDIF is more sensitive to clocking/jitter than i.Link. Here's a link that describes how AES/EBU (and for the most part SPDIF) works: http://www.nvision1.com/Serv/RefLib/...k/chapter4.asp It is based on something called "FM code". BTW, I'm not an EE by any means. This stuff interests me and I like to know how it works. I welcome anyone to correct what I say so I can a) understand things better, b) not say something that's incorrect that somebody else may believe. :)

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #195 of 407 Old 10-17-2004, 02:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Ok, it's going take me some time to get through the info in that link. Good stuff! :)

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #196 of 407 Old 10-18-2004, 03:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Krobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,965
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Just to satisfy my curiosity,

Would Laserdiscs Analogue 5.1 signal carrier be as accurate as standard Coax?
Krobar is offline  
post #197 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 06:37 AM
Member
 
KingMouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Simi Valley, California
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think after all that discussion, most of which I didn't understand, I will go the safe route and get the 59AVi.(Edit)

I sounds like that is the only easy way to know you are getting full functionality of the iLink. I think according to Secrets the video is only nominally worse than the Denon 3910, and the audio should be better.

Thanks to all for their input!

Hugh
KingMouth is offline  
post #198 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 07:03 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally posted by KingMouth
I think after all that discussion, most of which I didn't understand, I will go the safe route and get the 59TXi.

I sounds like that is the only easy way to know you are getting full functionality of the iLink. I think according to Secrets the video is only nominally worse than the Denon 3910, and the audio should be better.

Thanks to all for their input!

Hugh
59txi is an Elite receiver. You mean 59avi DVD player? :) i.Link from the 3910 works just fine - DD, DTS, CD, DVD-A, and SACD.

Edit: It just occured to me that you are worried about PQLS. I don't think it's been established that the 3910 does not implement this flow control or that it makes a difference. I'm not "pushing" the 3910 and I don't own it or the 59avi, but for the few days I auditioned the 3910, I didn't hear any difference between it and my 47ai via i.Link (it has PQLS) when playing CD, DVD-A, or SACD.


larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #199 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 08:32 AM
Member
 
onejake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack2
I have been an Active Asylum member for many years now. I should have read the faq's on this forum first before signing up. 12 years old and under.
I will retreat back to the Asylum from where I came. Where the older people hang out. Good bye.

Jack
I would like to thank you for the information you've contributed to the thread from your own, personal experience.

While I enjoy reading reviews from home theater publications and online discussion boards, there is nothing that will ever top an in-home experience.

Thanks for your contribution and please reconsider your decision to leave the forum.
onejake is offline  
post #200 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 09:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mimason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just received the 59avi yesterday.
Where is the 59avi's bass? Compared to the 3910 it's almost nonexistant. I get more output via optical/digital than analog. I've even played with setup of -6 all channels and +6 sub.
Will this player improve on the bottom end after break-in?
mimason is offline  
post #201 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 11:32 AM
Member
 
jfinneru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Kongsberg, Norway
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hm, I have the 2910/3910 and 59avi at home now, and I have tested the 3910 against 59avi a lot with the same music connected to my rotel rsp1098 with simular cables, and switched back and fourth. they sound allmost identical.

brgds joern

Editor, Norwegian Home Cinema Magazine
Eisa-magazine
jfinneru is offline  
post #202 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 12:30 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OneJake, It's rather interesting that you'd go back three pages ago in this thread and thank someone who was clearly exposed for being rather suspect and questionable. To say the least.

Quote:
Originally posted by onejake
I would like to thank you for the information you've contributed to the thread from your own, personal experience.

While I enjoy reading reviews from home theater publications and online discussion boards, there is nothing that will ever top an in-home experience.

Thanks for your contribution and please reconsider your decision to leave the forum.
What contribution? A bunch of bunk? The only thing I thank him for is that he left.

You must have missed a few posts before Jack2's sign-off to understand exactly why he decided to leave. I recommend you check the context of his comments.

It's all on page 8 of this thread, right where you found Jack2's farewell message. Read about 4 posts or so prior to the Jack2 quote you highlighted. I wouldn't believe a word he wrote if I were you and I certainly wouldn't thank him for that mess.

A rather mature and classy sign-off, too, I'm real impressed. :rolleyes:

Here's a refresher for you: He was exposed as a complete fraud and when directly questioned about his findings, well...you quoted his last post to us in that regard. That's how he handled any challenge to his findings.

I think it speaks for itself. No one ever insulted him or spoke to him in anywhere remotely negative manner. He simply knew his game was up and wisely got out.

Here's specifically why Jack2 left:

Quote:
Originally posted by Earz
Jack it seems you posted the same info on the sp 1000 sounding dead, and possibly being a dud over at the Audio Asylum, along whith your preference for the 59avi.
It seems you were a new member there also.

I then asked you which inputs you were using for analog..... and you posted that you had spoke too soon, and that now, instead of the 59avi, you preffered the Denon 3910 over the 59avi, and that your sp 1000 must have been defective.

Just a few days later you are over here, as a new member, but now posting that you once again have switched your opinion to the 59avi, as the best.

Speaking as somone who has owned most of the Players you mention, the sp 1000 is by far the closest to a Modwright 9000 es signature in sonics, of any stock universal player up to 2k I have heard.

Every other opinion on the sp1000 both pro and personal, has it as the winner whith all formats over not only the 59avi, but also the 5900,3910 and Marantz 9500.
Also nobody has reported getting a dud....as you say.

I would have to agree whith Q, in that your posts could seem highly suspect or troll like.

Also, if your so sure about the 59avi being the best for sa-cd/ redbook, how come you switched in mid stream to the 3910 as best, and now back to the 59avi?

If you look at this from the point of veiw above, you can see were your (bleep...edited for political content) like flip/flopping, along whith being new at both sites, not to mention the only one saying the sp1000 sounds flat, Could make your posts seem.....a little suspect.

Greg

The only thing that really counts is Earz's post. Just look at Earz's one post here. That says it all in a nutshell. After Earz's post, Jack2 came back for the insulting sign-off. Never even BOTHERED to answer ONE thing out of Earz's post. Why is that, exactly?

I think it's pretty obvious what happened here. He got exposed and ran for the hills. Earz blew him to hell and back and he knew it. Game over.

I wouldn't recommend you take one word that clown wrote seriously at all.
Pay more attention to long time, established forumers we have around here instead. Earz, Franchot, Pooper, people like that. Well established people. That's safer. They deserve your thanks a lot more than some fly by night fraud.

I hope that's finally the end of this. It couldn't be much clearer: Fraud. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #203 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 12:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mimason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by jfinneru
hm, I have the 2910/3910 and 59avi at home now, and I have tested the 3910 against 59avi a lot with the same music connected to my rotel rsp1098 with simular cables, and switched back and fourth. they sound allmost identical.
Are you only using the Rotel's DACS? I am referring to the player's DACS via analog interconnects.

How do you have the 3910 and 59avi setup as far as output levels for each channel? Are you using the +10 sub setting on the 3910? What level output in the 59avi set at?

I even set the 59avi up in 2 channel mode with no sub and got the same results.
mimason is offline  
post #204 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 12:52 PM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Q,
I take it you won't be sending Jack2 a Christmas card this year. :D

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #205 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 12:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by PooperScooper
Q,
I take it you won't be sending Jack2 a Christmas card this year. :D

larry
Heh. ;)

Well, it's such a stark contrast vs. dealing with people like yourself. What troubled me the most about it is: You are going to have some people who are new to all this, less experienced, whatever, who are going to read something like that, take it at face value, and run with it.

Unlike Jack2's charge that I "believe everything I read", I'm lucky that I am such a fence sitter and I do question everthing and I have pretty good instincts most of the time. That's what was so funny about it. Most of the forumers here that know me want to throttle me for being such a fence sitter! LOL, that's the opposite of believing everything I read if ever I saw it. :p

Some people don't have the same experiences, instincts, etc. etc. Those are the people that I would worry about.

I think these purchases are too expensive and too important to let someone come in and plant misinformation like that, that could lead certain people astray. These are investments we're talking about, when you get right down to it. That's a disservice to all and it's not what this forum is about. I honestly am still trying to figure out what the point was to that whole episode. What was he trying to accomplish?

Again, I think page 8 speaks for itself. I've certainly written volumes more on it than I should. Sorry about that.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #206 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thomas Marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow, very interesting thread.

I haven't posted to, or visited, this forum for months; I tend to spend my spare time indulging myself in the viewing experience.

I normally keep up with technology by reading my HT magazines, and when I see something of interest I tune into this forum for detail information as I consider it the best source of technical information I've found so far.

More to the point; FWIW I've been enjoying my 59avi for months now and I've had absolutely no problems with it. It's driving my TV3 and I couldn't be happier with the picture quality. I finely found a unit that comes as close as possible to "doing it all" and it doesn't have any operational issues. I wish I could say the same for my 931 and D1 that are gathering dust in my closet.

So, needless to say I'm delighted to see the 59avi seems to be standing up to the test of time.
Thomas Marshall is offline  
post #207 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 01:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Pioneer 59 is definitely still one of my few remaining finalists and I thank most of the folks who contributed to this thread, minus the bump on page 8. It's threads like these, on a whole, of why AVS is such a special place, really. :)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #208 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 01:22 PM
Member
 
jfinneru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Kongsberg, Norway
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mimason
Are you only using the Rotel's DACS? I am referring to the player's DACS via analog interconnects.

How do you have the 3910 and 59avi setup as far as output levels for each channel? Are you using the +10 sub setting on the 3910? What level output in the 59avi set at?

I even set the 59avi up in 2 channel mode with no sub and got the same results.
the players dac's and no sub. We also tried coax and the dac's in the rotel. I put the denon on first place both with analog and coax, but the differences are very small. Both players delivers music very vell and the internal dac's of the players are superior to the rotel's

brgds joern

Editor, Norwegian Home Cinema Magazine
Eisa-magazine
jfinneru is offline  
post #209 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 01:27 PM
Member
 
leebobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dana Point, CA
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had a 3910 for a few weeks and - returned it due to macroblocking and greenish blacks. I recently obtained a Pioneer DV-59AVi.

Here are my impressions so far on the Pioneer:

Image quality is excellent/very good using HDMI cable to HDMI-DVI adapter on my Plasma, and via the component outputs. I also have a Denon DVD-1600 and have not done an A/B test, but I believe the 1600 image quality is not significantly different from the DV-59AVi to my eyes.

Analog audio out for DVD-Audio is okay into my receiver: Denon AVR-3805 via external analog inputs. I preferred the DenonLink input from the 3910 to the 3805 as this allowed for EQ and other signal processing in the receiver and sounded much better to me.

With the DV-59AVi I cannot get the video menu from DVD-Audio or SACD discs to display via HDMI-DVI (it does work via component output). I did not have this problem with the DVD-3910.

Lee
leebobob is offline  
post #210 of 407 Old 10-19-2004, 01:38 PM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
With the DV-59AVi I cannot get the video menu from DVD-Audio or SACD discs to display via HDMI-DVI (it does work via component output). I did not have this problem with the DVD-3910.
SACDs have no menu or video content. Also, it's funny you mention this because one or two others had the DVD-A menu problem with HDMI->DVI on the 3910. It would be funnier if somebody responded to them and said their 59avi works just fine with the same cable setup. :)

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
Closed Thread DVD Players (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off