The "Official" Denon DVD-2910 Owners Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 04:04 PM
Member
 
Steve_Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffZX9R
Yeah, and what's the deal with gold plated connectors on OPTICAL cables? "Huh... that looks more expensive. It's all gold and shinny." There's no (electrical) conduction thru optical cables. If fact, this isolation is the primary reason optical cables are used in many applications instead of standard wire.

OK.. my work here is done now.

Jeff


Actually I've never seen a gold plated TOSLINK before, would like to see a pic if you got one.....
You might be referring to a coupler, but by no means is it necessary to use one unless you really screwed your measurements on a substantial run of optical cable and decided to use a coupler to cut down cost by using the existing and adding on....

"A good film is when the price of the dinner, the theatre admission and the babysitter were worth it."
Steve_Lazarus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 05:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
What are people doing with the power at the end of the day: do you leave it on 'stand by', or are you turning it off completely? (Don't think the amount of electricity is significant, but don't want to shorten the life of the electronics.)
millerwill is offline  
post #123 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 06:18 PM
Member
 
sbtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by HTBruceM
I've seen a few posts here from people with the Mits DLP RPTV (xx525, xx725) and the 2910. I currently have the Mits DLP and I'm planning on getting the Denon 2910 soon; but not for its HDMI upconversion capability.

On Mits DLP RPTVs, the HDMI input is converted to analog internally, before being routed to the final A/D converter for the 720p light engine. So at least on the Mits DLPs, contrary to what you might think, using the HDMI path will not result in a completely digital path from DVD to display.

Interesting post HTBruceM. I own a 52525 and a 2910. I didn't know that about the Mits converting to analog internally. I did a test of the HDMI and component with the 2910. It was a bit cumbersome to switch back and forth as my NetCommand was previously set up for my HD Tivo on HDMI. While I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I could see very little difference between the HDMI and component on the 2910. I was considering an HDMI switch (gefen.com) but I'm not sure it's worth $250 if I can't see a big difference. I like the 2910 a lot so far and like having HDMI for future compatibility if I ever mate it with another TV. Still, I can see the argument for the older 2900 if you're not going to use the HDMI.
sbtv is offline  
post #124 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 06:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
HTBruceM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by sbtv
I didn't know that about the Mits converting to analog internally.

Yep. To maintain a complete digital path and still support all the various HDMI resolutions, they would have had to design their own digital scaler. I think it was much easier for them (i.e. cheaper, faster to design) to just convert the HDMI to analog and then treat that input just like all the other analog inputs. It allowed them to leverage much of the circuitry from their prior designs and "drop in" the final A/D and light engine.

If I were in marketing, and I was selling a design that kept the signal in the digital domain from the HDMI connector all the way down to the DMD device, I would certainly have a flashy copyrighted name for it. Then I'd make sure its all over the specs and advertising, and pump my sales force to push it like its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I've not seen any TV mfgr actually say that, so it makes me wonder if any of them stay completely in the digital domain from HDMI to display.
HTBruceM is offline  
post #125 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 07:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: guarding my retirement igloo...with a McMillan TAC-50 long range sniper rifle
Posts: 4,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by HTBruceM
I've not seen any TV mfgr actually say that, so it makes me wonder if any of them stay completely in the digital domain from HDMI to display.

Just a question...isnt the Samsung DLP all digital?

You do not stop playing because you get old...
You get old because you stop playing.
Tinker is offline  
post #126 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 09:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bytehoven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,896
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve_Lazarus
Although "A New Hope" was beautifully restored I wouldn't suggest using it as a measuring stick for your player. A movie that's been remastered (even if it is THX certified) is not going to produce the same A/V quality as say, "Star Wars AOTC" which is shot in High Def and uses Lucas's cutting edge technology for video and audio quality. I

Good point, except I would argue AOTC did not have as good a job done on the Mgped encoding. While AOTC may have inherently greater resolution and quality in the master, it did not translate well to the DVD. Certainly better than Pahntom Menance, but I think the new trilogy looks just a litte better from a DVD master stand point.

XBL GT: xX ShadowAxx Xx 

PSN ID: Bytehoven

Battle Log: Bytehoven  

Bytehoven is offline  
post #127 of 2970 Old 10-23-2004, 11:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
HTBruceM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Tinker
Just a question...isnt the Samsung DLP all digital?

Dunno. From the improvement people have seen using DVI inputs - perhaps. Someone with a schematic of one of the Samsung sets could tell us. Anyone out there with a schematic? Check out the path from DVI to the light engine...
HTBruceM is offline  
post #128 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 02:24 AM
Member
 
Daniel Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Ridgeville, OH
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
While I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I could see very little difference between the HDMI and component on the 2910.

I am considering purchasing this player and don't understand how this would be possible considering the output via component is 480i/480p. Does anybody else believe this to be this case?
Daniel Eddy is offline  
post #129 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 02:39 AM
Member
 
Steve_Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytehoven
Good point, except I would argue AOTC did not have as good a job done on the Mgped encoding. While AOTC may have inherently greater resolution and quality in the master, it did not translate well to the DVD. Certainly better than Pahntom Menance, but I think the new trilogy looks just a litte better from a DVD master stand point.

Great point!,
I agree, the trilogy set is splendid indeed, alot of work went into the DVD master. But! just don't use it as measuring stick. Come to think of it, after all this Star Wars talk I just might have a Star Wars Trilogy-Thon after I get off of here !!

"A good film is when the price of the dinner, the theatre admission and the babysitter were worth it."
Steve_Lazarus is offline  
post #130 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 11:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
HTBruceM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
I am considering purchasing this player and don't understand how this would be possible considering the output via component is 480i/480p. Does anybody else believe this to be this case?

The situation is more complex than "the highest number is best" or "digital is better than analog". I believe the entire path from DVD to your TV display needs consideration. The post is in reference to the Mits DLP TV and the 2910. In that scenario, the Mits converts the HDMI into analog. That conversion is bypassed when using the component inputs. So we need to determine which method will result in the best input to the Mits final A/D 720p converter. Here are the two possible connection methods:

2910_Scaler----HDMI-----MitsD/A--------MitsA/D------Mits720pDisplay

2910_D/A----- Comp----------------------MitsA/D-------Mits720pDisplay

As you can see, the last two steps are common to both methods. So we're left to figure out which method will result in the best analog signal at the input to the MitsA/D section. My money is on the 2nd method assuming good quality component cables.
HTBruceM is offline  
post #131 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 03:05 PM
Member
 
bruce2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is the better picture for the 2910 running through an EDTV? DVI 480p, DVI 1080i, or 480p component? Does the DCDi chip only come into play using component cables? Thanks!
bruce2003 is offline  
post #132 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 03:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Clepto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, saw considerable MB with the 2910 in DVI/480p on my EDTV Panny.

Was watching the opening scene of Van Helsing, where he's fighting Mr.
Hyde.

Switched to 1080i, completely went away.

Didn't get a chance to check the same scene with component before returning the movie though. Completely forgot about that.

Main screen turn on. All your base are belong to us.
Clepto is offline  
post #133 of 2970 Old 10-24-2004, 05:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
HTBruceM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Clepto
Well, saw considerable MB with the 2910 in DVI/480p on my EDTV Panny.
Was watching the opening scene of Van Helsing, where he's fighting Mr.
Hyde. Switched to 1080i, completely went away.

Now there is one good argument for using HDMI between the Mits DLP and the 2910...
HTBruceM is offline  
post #134 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 12:09 AM
Member
 
wildpanda86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by HTBruceM
The situation is more complex than "the highest number is best" or "digital is better than analog". I believe the entire path from DVD to your TV display needs consideration. The post is in reference to the Mits DLP TV and the 2910. In that scenario, the Mits converts the HDMI into analog. That conversion is bypassed when using the component inputs. So we need to determine which method will result in the best input to the Mits final A/D 720p converter. Here are the two possible connection methods:

2910_Scaler----HDMI-----MitsD/A--------MitsA/D------Mits720pDisplay

2910_D/A----- Comp----------------------MitsA/D-------Mits720pDisplay

As you can see, the last two steps are common to both methods. So we're left to figure out which method will result in the best analog signal at the input to the MitsA/D section. My money is on the 2nd method assuming good quality component cables.

We tried a number of different scenes from different movies comparing component video cables @480P vs HDMI @720P on our Mitsu DLP 52725. First of all, there seems to be no difference in sharpness or resolution between the two. I guess this is because the Mitsu will upconvert it to 720P regardless of what the input is.

The HDMI on the other hand seems to magnifiy any noise/ or problems with the video. For instance in all the dark scenes for Star Wars, Day after tomorrow, and Pirates of the Caribean it seems to have a weird green haze. In Star Wars, A new hope, when the droids where captured and placed with all the other droids to be sold, the color blackness was completely uneven and there was some green artifacts. If you switch it to 480P via HDMI, this diminishes, and at 1080i these all get worse. Via Component on the other hand, there does not seem to be any problems & the pictures are crisp and clear.

Does anyone else with a Mitsu DLP have similar experience with their Denon?

The store near us is willing to give us a floor model Denon DVD2900 (equivalent to current 3910)... for less, should we take them up on their offer? or stick with the 2910 (equivalent to old 2200) and use the components.

Once setup correctly, the picture and sound on the Denon is simply amazing.
wildpanda86 is offline  
post #135 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 11:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Reagan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
wildpanda86,

About the green dots at 720p/1080i...

I have a stb that I connected with DVI that did just what you described (no problem at 480p, big problem at 720p and bigger problem at 1080i) and it turned out to be a bad dvi cable.

-Reagan

The truth doesn't care whether you believe it.
Reagan is offline  
post #136 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 01:05 PM
Newbie
 
tihead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have been reading this thread for a while now. It has been a big help in my decision to purchase a 2910. However, I haven't yet seen anybody discuss a couple of problems I am having that I haven't been able to solve yet.

I have a 2910 feeding a 3805 (via Component and optical cable). The 3805 is feeding a Panny 42PWD7UY(via component as well). I am having two problems.

1) The subwoofer is not getting a signal when I play a DVD. I have set the sub signal to +10 on the 2910. But still no signal. Whn a DVD is playing and I go to 5 Channel stereo on the 3805 the subwoofer turns on. But if I am in DTS or Dolby the subwoofer doesn't turn on. If the subwoofer is on in DTS or Dolby there is no sound from the subwoofer. When a CD is playing
the sub goes on when pure direct, direct or 5 ch stereo is selected on the 3805.

2) The other issue I am having is that the the panny will not show an image when the 2910 is in progressive mode. I haven't played around with this as much as the sub issue. So I am putting it out there hoping somebody has a quick fix.

Thanks in advance for any help.
tihead is offline  
post #137 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bytehoven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,896
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:


Originally posted by tihead
The other issue I am having is that the the panny will not show an image when the 2910 is in progressive mode. I haven't played around with this as much as the sub issue. So I am putting it out there hoping somebody has a quick fix.

If you mean a signal from the component outputs, here is the fix.

With the HMDI/DVI output set to OFF, the compoenent output will display either a 480i or 480p signal.

With the HDMI/DVI set to anything but OFF, the component output will only display 480i and you have to change the setting in the main SETUP menu to INTERLACED. Then you get the 480i signal from the component ourputs.

RJ
...

XBL GT: xX ShadowAxx Xx 

PSN ID: Bytehoven

Battle Log: Bytehoven  

Bytehoven is offline  
post #138 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 03:08 PM
Newbie
 
tihead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bytehoven,

Thanks, that worked.

Now if I can figure out why I'm not getting a signal to the subwoofer I'll be really happy......
tihead is offline  
post #139 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 08:10 PM
Member
 
wildpanda86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Reagan
wildpanda86,

About the green dots at 720p/1080i...

I have a stb that I connected with DVI that did just what you described (no problem at 480p, big problem at 720p and bigger problem at 1080i) and it turned out to be a bad dvi cable.

-Reagan

If that is the case, I am gonna try to return the HDMI that we have for another one & see if that fixes things. On the other hand, do you think it can be a loose HDMI connection? The HDMI on the back of the Mitsu seems to fit a bit loosely.
wildpanda86 is offline  
post #140 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 08:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Clepto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Are you sending digital coax/optical out to the receiver from the DVD player? If so, the receiver should have control over the LFE...

Main screen turn on. All your base are belong to us.
Clepto is offline  
post #141 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 10:30 PM
Newbie
 
tihead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Clepto,

Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains?
tihead is offline  
post #142 of 2970 Old 10-25-2004, 11:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JBaumgart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:


Originally posted by tihead
Clepto,

Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains?

Have you gone through the Auto EQ setup on the 3805? I assume you did and the sub level was properly set? Assuming your Toslink cable is good, and the sub cable is good and is properly connected to the sub output, you should get sub response when watching any DVD. On those where there does not appear to be any sub response, have you tried adjusting the sub volume using the Enter button on the remote and/or turning up the volume on the sub itself, with still no effect? Lastly, in Setup have you assigned the correct Optical input for DVD?
JBaumgart is offline  
post #143 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 12:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
HTBruceM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by tihead
Yes, the DVD player is hooked up to the 3805 via the digital optical cable. It looks as though the receiver is getting the LFE signal for some DVDs. Maybe I should configure the subwoofer to be LFE+Mains?

Do you maybe have the digital output of the 2910 set to PCM instead of normal?
HTBruceM is offline  
post #144 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 10:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
There was a discussion a week or so ago--either in this thread or another--about whether it was better to use the RGB or YCbCr option in the HDMI output of the 2910 into an HDMI input of the display (e.g., a Sammy hlp). But I don't remember ever seeing the CONCLUSION of the discussion!

By now does anyone know the answer (if there is a general one) to this question? (I have a hard time telling much difference with my uneducated eyes.)
millerwill is offline  
post #145 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 10:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I kinda think, when in all of these new upconverting dvd players, consenses is to use component video, why we have to buy direct digital path players lol?
zoro is offline  
post #146 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 11:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ZZtop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am not sure of the technical details, but I read something on a U.K. blog somewhere in the last week by a guy who claimed to be an engineer. In his blog he claimed some of these issues and the black levels in particular were one of the reasons we needed a larger number of user available settings/software control adjustments on these new players with DVI and HDMI but are not getting them.

He wrote that HDMI is not 100% pure pristine digital as much as DVI is. He also wrote about the loss of some of blackness levels on one of the 2 connections. The latter part I have seen posted on here recently, that you lose some of the shade of black.

He might be talking out the side of his a**, but I thought maybe someone who has followed this topic more closely or is in the business can address this?

owner of several Samsung LCD Panels
ZZtop is offline  
post #147 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 11:28 AM
Member
 
coreymd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Prosper, TX
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by zoro
I kinda think, when in all of these new upconverting dvd players, consenses is to use component video, why we have to buy direct digital path players lol?

You know, when I first setup my 2910, I connected the component cables only and watched a couple of DVDs. I noted in an earlier post in this thread that the dark, spotlit scenes in "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" showed badly dithered halos using component. Someone else noticed overall graininess in dark scenes. Since then I A/B compared the same scenes over DVI and was surprised by the improvement in PQ. Mind you, the difference is not something I'd likely notice in typical viewing, but in this one specific case at least, the dithering was very noticeable in component, but nearly eliminated over DVI. This doesn't make purchasing a DVI switch worthwhile yet, but if I see the same issue repeatedly on other DVDs, I'm going all digital...

Since my display's scaler, etc. probably also figures in (I have a Samsung HLN DLP) does anybody with this DVD and a different display want to do the same A/B comparison and report your findings? I can post the chapter/time of the scenes if necessary.

-Corey
coreymd is offline  
post #148 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 11:30 AM
Senior Member
 
ndahbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by coreymd

My first impression is that the audio this player produces is light years beyond anything I've experienced with my HT before. I've got a mid-level Yamaha receiver that I thought was fantastic before using the Denon's DACs. I can't believe there is so much of a difference between the two. The soundstage is more precisely defined and I don't get listening fatigue at even above reference dB levels. I actually feel like I was missing the true theater experience without this player - and underutilizing my Klipsch speakers. I know why those "audiophiles" spend so much on pre/pros and amps now.

I just don't get it. Why are the DACs even an issue since you are obviously using a TOSLINK cable between your DVD player and your receiver??
ndahbar is offline  
post #149 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: guarding my retirement igloo...with a McMillan TAC-50 long range sniper rifle
Posts: 4,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by ndahbar
I just don't get it. Why are the DACs even an issue since you are obviously using a TOSLINK cable between your DVD player and your receiver??

You can also use the anolog outs from the 2910 to the AVR if it has the ability to accept multi channel inputs. The 2910 has the DD and DTS decoder built it also so the he could be refereing to the external inputs on his AVR as opposed to the optical/coax digital inputs. In that case the 2910 DACs are used.

You do not stop playing because you get old...
You get old because you stop playing.
Tinker is offline  
post #150 of 2970 Old 10-26-2004, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Maltby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Regarding Millerwill's question about YCbCr or RGB for HDMI here's something from the "HDMI is better than DVI!!" thread that states there is a theoretical advantage to using YCbCr IF you have a display device like the AE700 or Z3 that will do 10 bits and HDMI.....

The pixels on a DVD or from a digital TV broadcast (*the* sources of today!) are (by definition of the MPEG compression standard being used) in YCbCr format with 8 bits/color component (actually I believe that they are in YCbCr 422 format, i.e. there are only color values for every second pixel horizontally, but let's not complicate things unnecessarily).

- The latest generation of display devices use (by way of their very physical construction) RGB pixels with 10 or even more bits per component (e.g. Panasonic AE700 and Sanyo Z3 projectors claim 10-bit processing, don't know about the actual LCD panels, or e.g. the 5th generation Pioneer plasmas claims "7 billion colors" in their marketing - which would be about 11 bits / color component (altough it is my suspicion is that they are using stochastic temporal dithering to very cleverly fake that on an 8-bit device, but never mind that...)).

Now consider the case when you use DVI to communicate between a DVD player and a display device (in the following ^ denotes "to the power of"):

- YCbCr 8-bit data in DVD player -> Player converts to RGB 8-bit adding quantization noise estimated on the order of the least significant bit, i.e. about 2^(-8) -> RGB 8-bit over DVI connection -> RGB 8-bits received by display device -> Upconverts to RGB 10-bit (by padding with zeros I guess) -> RGB 10-bit for any internal processing -> RGB 10-bits at output pixels.

Now instead assume an HDMI capable a DVD player and a 10-bit color display device that can both "speak YCbCr":

- YCbCr 8-bit in DVD player -> YCbCr 8-bit over HDMI connection -> YCbCr 10-bits received by display device -> Display device converts to RGB 10-bit adding quantization noise estimated on the order of the least significant bit, i.e. about 2^(-10) -> RGB 10-bit for any internal processing -> RGB 10-bits at output pixels.

In this specific example you can see that we get 2^(-8) / 2^(-10) = 4x less quantization noise from the YCbCr->RGB conversion when using HDMI rather than when using DVI *with* a regular DVD source! The different would be even larger on say a 12-bit/color device. Of course, how perceivable this difference is, that is an entirely different question...

The films of De Sica, of Welles, of Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger made little money and endure as spiritual delights.
--David Mamet
Maltby is offline  
Reply DVD Players (Standard Def)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off