My preliminary impression of I-O DATA AVEL LINKPLAYER2 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4424 Old 11-02-2004, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi SeeMoreDigital and Wilbert,

I had tried to learn something about codecs and transcoding in DOOM
in recent several days,and I had seen both of your names many times.
As I stated previously,my PC just installed K-lite mega pack with software
HT MPEG ENCODER PROAUTHOR. I also installed AUTOGK yesterday.
But I still did not have much idea about how to do those transcoding.
If you can link some short files with above encoding,maybe I can tried to download and play it in AVLP2 and see whether those were playable.

Hi ARRIUS,

Don't know whether you can read Japanese,then maybe you can provide
more informations about possible reigons change of DVD-ROM and any possbility to hack the DVD-ROM to play DVD-VIDEO via DVI?

Also do you experience any digital output problems either in DVD-ROM or
via ethernet?

Thanks
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post #92 of 4424 Old 11-02-2004, 06:15 PM
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Ok Tom, I'm in, pre-ordered. I imagine you and I may end up being the main USA product testers. I wasnt' so crazy to order overnight shipping however.

All the best,
Ricardo
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post #93 of 4424 Old 11-02-2004, 08:18 PM
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For 20$ you can buy and encoder as a plug-in that adds on to Nero dvd burning software. Specifically it adds on to the Nero Vision Express module, to convert mpeg and other files to dvd. Its seems a great value yet I see almost no posts about it ever. Some people who own Nero got it the deluxe install of the products disc and don't know it.

owner of several Samsung LCD Panels
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post #94 of 4424 Old 11-02-2004, 09:48 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RicardoD
Ok Tom, I'm in, pre-ordered. I am imagine you and I may end up being the main USA product testers. I wasnt' so crazy to order overnight shipping however.

All the best,
Ricardo

I went with 2nd day air, but I had one hitch in the ordering, on my credit card I didn't enter the correct (3) numbers from the back of the card. So they emailed me right away which was good, and I phoned it to them. Still though, ordered online, but needing some human intervention to correct my mistake, you never know...fingers crossed the transaction works out okay.
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post #95 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 08:08 AM
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I have a couple of questions for those of you who own one of these already:

1. Do they recognize music and images (mp3/jpeg) recorded on all supported media or just recorded on CD-R. I ask because a lot of today's DVD players advertise support of these files, but they don't tell you that they are only recognized if recorded on CD-R (I have tried recording mp3 files and JPGs to DVD+R and the players failed to recognize it).

2. Does the player not recognize an NTFS USB HD or does it recognize it and work with it as long as none of the files are bigger than 4GB? I know it is advertised to only support FAT32 USB Hard Drives, but I wasn't sure if it actually detects the file system or if it just needs to implement a file size limit.


Neither of these questions are too significant (I want one either way), but I was just curious. If you get a chance to test either of these, great! If not, no worries.

-- Adolfo
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post #96 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 01:33 PM
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just preordered one. after all the mods to the lite-on (now on my third dvd-rom drive), i almost feel like i'm replacing a child.
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post #97 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dolfo


2. Does the player not recognize an NTFS USB HD or does it recognize it and work with it as long as none of the files are bigger than 4GB? I know it is advertised to only support FAT32 USB Hard Drives, but I wasn't sure if it actually detects the file system or if it just needs to implement a file size limit.

Same question I have. I have much of my video library on external HD. I'm confused after reading the user's manual. Will it recognize my external NTSF formatted HD and see only my files that are less than 4GB? This FAT32 restriction does not effect internal HDs formatted to NTSF does it?
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post #98 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 03:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MVBJJ
This FAT32 restriction does not effect internal HDs formatted to NTSF does it?

I wouldn't think so, but that is another good question.

-- Adolfo
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post #99 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 05:10 PM
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Hi all,

TUFU, unfortunately, I cannot read Japanese myself, I have to go thru friends and this is a little bit tedious as they are not used to such system!!
I am currently in contact with IO-Data support team for possible update in firmware for region change.

By the way, I opened the beast and tried to connect another DVD player: either my old Ricoh 5125 or Plextor 708 were recognised and worked flawlessly. That can be the hard trick!
Regarding external HD I am using an IDE to USB2 adapter with my HD. I have to dig a little bit more, but it really seems tha NTFS disc are recognized, but you cannot see any of their content, even with file size smaller than 4 Gigs.
I will check DVI output more extensively this coming weekend.

Regards to all
Arrius
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post #100 of 4424 Old 11-03-2004, 08:42 PM
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Here is what I received from I-O Data Tech Support in response to my FAT32 and file size limitation questions:

Dear Michael,

I'll reply to you now.

> Most of my movie files are MPEG2 and on my external HD connected to
my
> PC via USB/firewire. Does this mean Link player will not see my NTSF
> formatted HD at all? or will it see only MPEG2 files less than 4 GB?

First of all, if you pick up that MPEG data from your PC (inside HD),
you can play... no problem. I'll let you know the matrix here.

Network USB2.0
MPEG2 OK OK, but depends on FAT size limitation
AVI2.0 Need New Firmware Need New Firmware

Networking play doesn't matter with any HDD format.
But pay the attantion. This case is just MPEG2. MPEG2-TS has not been
supported officially, OK?

> Is the FAT32 limitation only for USB storage devices connected
> directly to Link player via USB port and not for USB storage devices
> connected to my computer?

You're correct.

> How about my internal HDs? Both my internal HDs are NTSF formatted.

I will say "No problem" again.

> Will Link player see these drives? Is the FAT32 limitation only for
> external drives?

Yes, same thing.

Thank you.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:35:32 -0800 (PST)
Michael Wheeler wrote:

> Dear Mitsuo,
>
> Thank you for your quick reply. Need further clarification. Most of
my movie files are MPEG2 and on my external HD connected to my PC via
USB/firewire. Does this mean Link player will not see my NTSF formatted
HD at all? or will it see only MPEG2 files less than 4 GB?
>
> Is the FAT32 limitation only for USB storage devices connected
directly to Link player via USB port and not for USB storage devices
connected to my computer?
>
> How about my internal HDs? Both my internal HDs are NTSF formatted.
Will Link player see these drives? Is the FAT32 limitation only for
external drives?
>
> Please advise. Thank-you.
>
> --Michael
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post #101 of 4424 Old 11-04-2004, 04:09 AM
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Arrius, since you already have opend up the box: Have you tried to connect an internal HDD? If you have a look at the block diagram in the product specifications you will se that it states "DVD Drive unit (Slave HDD)". Maybe both DVD transport and HD could be connected?

I got my AVLP2/DVDG from Japan today. Sitting next to me on my office table. Hard to focus on anything but my will to go home and play with it! :-)

/BE
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post #102 of 4424 Old 11-04-2004, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Just let you guy know,I-O DATA had just released a new firmware to fix some problems.
http://www.iodata.jp/lib/doc/avlp2dvdg_fup1.htm

It seemed that this new firmware did not solve the problem of digital sound output completely,althought it does improve it someway.I still had sudden loss of sound with fastforward or chapter search during playing DVD-VIDEO. But it was much better while playing from hard drive now.
From previous experience, I thought further firmware upgrade may improve
the digital sound problem,it not,then I may consider change the DVD-ROM as in my V880. The DVD-ROM in AVLP2 and V880 came from same company with different models. So,there may have same problems in some machines.

Hi Arrius, I also liked to know whether you had hack the replaced DVD-ROM
as you stated to region free and whether it could play as a region free
DVD-ROM in AVLP2?

Someone had posted the interior of AVLP2.
http://www.myav.com.tw/vbb221/upload...hreadid=145846
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post #103 of 4424 Old 11-04-2004, 06:34 AM
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Could anyone who knows about this Sigma chipset comment on the issue of playing network .ifo files? I know someone from Sigma was on this forum. Is it possible that players based on this chip EM8620L is it?) can play .ifo, which is the DVD menu structure? I don't see why not; HTPC's can play it, both with software DVD players and even hardware decoder cards that play DVD (like the MyHD card.) I always rip my DVDs as full copies w/ menus w/ DVD Decrypter, and would really like to keep the menu structure intact, with proper chapter skip, etc.. This is now the only thing holding me back from dumping the HTPC. Also, I love the fact that this player supports the server software on Mac OS-X. Does anyone know if any of the other player (KISS DP-600, for example) are working on this support. I assume the "middleware" for this chip is only being devepled by one or two software companies, so any knowledge of what is in the pipeline would be helpful. I really like the Mac support of the I-O, but also want the internet radio capabilities of the Momitsu and possibility others.

Edit- I just did some reading up on the KISS Dp-600. I am told it will be out in the US in a few weeks. It also looks to support the PC Link app AND will probably support a MacLink app they have now available for their DP-1500. This way, files stored on both my PC and my Mac can be browsed. Also, it has internet radio like the Momitsu 880N. I was also told earlier in the year in an email from KISS that it will have DVI out and scale up to HD resolutions. This might be the one I am looking for!
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post #104 of 4424 Old 11-04-2004, 01:46 PM
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Now I have had some time to play with my new AVLP2/DVDG. Some rough edges but an overall good impression. I have not yet received my 15m DVI-D cable so I have not yet had the chance to validate the picture quality.

The server is, at least on the Mac side, "only" based on a TomCat JPS engine and some HTML. I had no problem changing the pictures used for buttons. Since the software is based on themes, I guess people could make their own themes and share, like for xBox XBMC.

Those who miss internet Radio, RSS and web browsing will be happy to hear that the server software this baby is based on comes from http://www.syabas.com and is shared by other companies who have come longer in their server implementations. I downloaded the latest realease from http://www.neuston.com and I had only minor problems with it. You have to choose neustontech as player theme in the prefernces to get slide show to work OK. Still only slideshow option gives OK looking pictures. Shuffle make them look to jaggy. I also downloaded the server for Elgato EyeHome (http://www.elgato.com), but I couldn't "log in" since it told me "Unauthorized access. Please try again."

OK, that all for now. Gotta get something to eat before I hit the sack!

EDIT - I think I will investigate if MacLink from Kiss (http://www.kiss-technology.com/?p=maclink&v=users) also works. It seams to have an easier configuration interface.
EDIT - No, MacLink dont work. Also, Neuston server works OK for serving up pictures, audio and Internet stuff, but not Video.
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post #105 of 4424 Old 11-05-2004, 07:34 AM
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Hello everyone,

As promised I have managed to generate some high-def "Test Cards" for you to try.

This first batch of 3No files are as follows: -

1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AC3 in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in MP4

All of which can be downloaded here.


Cheers

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I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout and A/V Gear
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post #106 of 4424 Old 11-05-2004, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I had tested 3 files.
The file with AC3 is OK but the two files with AAC shows "unknown audio codec".

By the way, I had tried to play a PAL DVD in AVLP2 but failed.

Also,the I-O DATA is going to release a new model of AVLP2-DVDLJ.
Seemed like it will be the model sold in US without DVI and wirless lan
(DVDLJ-- DVD-ROM,Lan,Japan).
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/multimedia...vlp2/index.htm
and the back panel
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/multimedia...lp2/index8.htm
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post #107 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 06:11 AM
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Well that's interesting!

I'm hoping that all this means is the player does not like 6Ch AAC audio. And not AAC altogether!

I will upload some "audio only" 2Ch AAC in AVI and MP4 streams for you to try!

It's damned good news that 1280x720 Mpeg4/AC3 encodes work though


Cheers

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post #108 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 08:47 AM
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SeeMoreDigital

What are you using for encoding the files? I was wondering because i use Nero recode to encode my DVD's. In recode there is a setting to encode to Nero digital audio 5.1. Is this the same as your "6Ch AAC audio"?

If it is i went to sigma's web site and it stated.
Key Features:
MPEG-4 AAC-LC

I then went to see what LC meant and it stated (Low Complexity)

I then went back to Nero Recode, and realized I had to set the encode to LC instead of automatic. It seemed not to do LC when set to automatic. So I think and hope this will play 5.1 audio, but we need to set encoding to LC.

Also since this this device seems to play MP4 and is UPnP compliant, has anyone seen if it works with Nero Mediahome?

And I know this is new, but can some one post some more screen shoots of the interface for playing network files. Is it customizable, I mean can we add cover art to the audio folders?

I hope this helps
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post #109 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 08:53 AM
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Does the DVI version require HDCP?
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post #110 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 09:10 AM
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Could someone also check and see if the player will support?

MP4 with Qpel (quarter Pixel) and half.

Thank you

Jedillwag
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post #111 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 10:04 AM
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Other questions about the USB port. If you connect a USB hard drive to the player, can that drive be accessed across the network by my PC? This would in a way give me a NAS solution for storing my media, and it would allow the player direct access, without having to stream from my PC hard drive. Would Microsoft Media Connect be able to access that "player attached" hard drive?

Just my take, but after reading through many of these forums in search of the ideal solution for accessing all my media through my TV/Stereo, doesn't it seem to make more sense to have the media storage directly connected to the player? Then be able to access that storage from my home network PCs for adding content.

Another USB port question, can a USB hub be hooked into the port to allow multiple storage/reader devices at same time?

That's it for now. I'll be packing up the ROKU HD1000 i just received and sending it back. It basically does what I want, but such limited video support, and all the bad posts and lack of continued support by Roku, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Kurt
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post #112 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 10:14 AM
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I sent an email to I-O Data tech support asking if the DVD-ROM player will upconvert from 420p to 720p or 1080i. The reply was they are checking with engineering and will get back to me. Not clear from earlier posts in this forum if this is indeed an upconversion DVD player. Not clear from the users manual either. There is a button on the remote that toggles between the various video outputs, but it is not clear if this applies to DVD-ROM function. Has someone actually tested a unit for this function?
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post #113 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 11:33 AM
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Hi again,

Before I start, Wilbert has kindly asked me to provide the following link: -

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijk...g2_aac_ch20.ts

Which is for an 1440x1080 Mpeg2+2Ch AAC-LC (.ts) encode.


Hi jedillwag,

Actually I encoded the streams with different applications and muxed them together with an application called mp4UI.

That said, the latest version of Recode2 generates extremely good looking encodes and should be ideally suited for use with this player and any other player based around this chip-set.

Also, Sigma's chip-set does not support Qpel (quarter pixel). And cannot be upgraded at any time in the future to do so. And as far as I'm aware, every Mpeg4 codec uses 'half pixel' by default.


Cheers

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post #114 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 12:16 PM
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SeeMoreDigital

Thanks for the info.

I was wondering did you find the Qpel limitation on the sigma web page?
I have looked many times. The chip-set 85xx clearly stated qpel not supported, but on this chip-set EM8620L I can only find GMC not supported.

here is a clip from sigma's facts.

"What kind of MPEG-4 support is provided?

The MPEG-4 video must conform to ISO MPEG-4 Simple or Advanced Simple profile, without global motion compensation (GMC). Up to 5.1 channels of MPEG-4 AAC-LC audio is supported.

For storing personal content using MPEG-4 on CD or HDD, AVI files are used to contain the audio and video data; these must be stored in the ISO 9660 format. Typically, the audio will use the MP3 or Dolby Digital format. "

I only ask because

I can definitely see artifacts on my encodes unless, qpel is selected. it is much slower, but the quality is excellent.

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post #115 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 12:38 PM
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We need a DVI answer from IO Data

I remember when I purchased my HD tv the rumor of the day was HDCP. So I, as others bought one that would work with this.

So from TUFU's posts (thank you very much TUFU) and if I do not miss read his findings.

"It also had a video toggle button like V880.
It supported :
composite and S
D4 480I, D4 480P, D4 720P,D4 1080I( D4 means component)
DVI 480P,720P,1080I,640X480,800X600,1024X768,and 842x480 for plasma
TV"

and then
"Yes,with the player's DVD-ROM,you can only get component output. The DVI output can only be achived via networked hard disc either in your PC or portable USB2.0 hard disc. In the FAQ of AVLP2 in I-O DATA webpage,they say because it's not HDCP compliant ,so the DVD-VIDEO(or the dvd-rom in the player) can not output from DVI. Anyway, when you rip the dvd to hard disc, you still can get DVI output."

But Sigma's web site states http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products...series_faq.htm

"What types of Progressive outputs are supported?

For highest picture quality, the EM8620L Series supports 480p, 576p, 720p, 768p, 1024p and 1080p (up to 60Hz refresh rates). It is limited to 480p or 576p for CSS-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used, or the digital video outputs drive a LCD/DLP/PDP/LCOS display or another chip."

And then for the scalling
"Can it scale to HDTV resolution?

Our fourth-generation advanced programmable scaling engine is capable of high-quality scaling of content up to 1920x1080p @ 60Hz. 1:1 pixel mapping to a specific display is now possible, ensuring the highest video quality. However, the resolution is limited to 720x480i, 720x480p, 720x576i or 720x576p for CSS-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used, or the digital video outputs drive a LCD/DLP/PDP/LCOS display or another chip."


Am I missing something.
I have a DVI/HDCP compliant TV, this chip-set in the IO-data player seems to be DVI/HDCP complaint. It seems to be able to scale to very high resolutions if these two devices are connected. What am I not understanding.

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post #116 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 12:56 PM
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With regard to my Qpel statement, I'm only able to refer to "old information" provided be Sigma... while the chip-set was in the development stage!

With regard to GMC, you may well find that the player will spin DivX's "1 warp-point" implementation but not XviD's or Nero's "3 warp-point" implementations...

.. I guess, all one can do is try different options, to make certain But who knows what future firmware updates might add, or take away!

Anyway... I've got a new encode for you to try. This one is as follows: -

1024x576 PAL Mpeg4 + 2Ch AAC-LC (and subs) in MP4

Hopefully your player will be able spin (or stream) this one. If it can't then maybe the MP4 container is not fully supported yet.

With regard to 6Ch AAC-LC audio. Does your player have on-board 6Ch analogue outputs? I ask this because if Sigma are intending to pass 6Ch AAC-LC audio via the digital output, only a couple of DSS amplifiers contain chip-sets capable of on-board AAC processing/decoding.


Good luck

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post #117 of 4424 Old 11-06-2004, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi.
The results were:
fille from Wilbert: picture--YES,sound--NO
file from SMD: picture and sound: yes ,OK
(what do you mean SUB? subtitle? I didn't see it)
Actually, I wanted to know whether the player can play subtitle
,but I didn't have files to test this.

I had connected a USB2.0 hard drive to AVLP2,but I can not access it from
my PC. I don't know whether future firmware or software upgrade will
support this function. I-O DATA had released a LANDISC which probably may meet some of your requierment.
http://www.iodata.jp/prod/storage/hd...dl-u/index.htm
I had not yet tried to use a USB hub to connect the player.

For DVI problems, I had read the statemetns on Sigma's website,but whatever they said, the actual functions (maybe some functions had been disabled for some reasons that we don't know) that stated on FAQ of AVLP2 inJ apanese website and from my personal expreiences were:

1.The DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can only output from component , S or composite NOT DVI. But,DVD-VIDEO in DVD-ROM can toggle between 480p,720p,1080i in my projector Mitsubishi D1208 which was HDCP comliable.

2.If you burn mpg or avi files in DVD-R(or maybe +R),then,you can get DVI
output which also can toggle between various listed DVI resolution.

3.And, I should correct my previous statement about TS files.I had tried to play some mpg files convered from TS.Initally it showed "encrypted
mpeg files" and was not playable.But now(probably after firmware upgrade,I'm not sure), all previous TS converted mpg file and the file from
Wilbert are playable now but with stuttering or explosive digital sound,except the files more than 4G which were not recognized by the player.
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post #118 of 4424 Old 11-07-2004, 02:23 AM
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Thanks for your confirmation post TUFU... There's good news and bad news in their!

At least we now know 2Ch AAC-LC audio in .MP4 works but not 6Ch


With regard to the DVI output, I can only speculate that the reason you can't view "shop bought" DVD's via the DVI output is because they contain MacroVision. And why Mpeg2/DVD streams that have been "backed-up" or don't contain MacroVision... work.

Hopefully Sigma will allow PAL users to play back DVD titles with MacroVision "progressively" As this was a problem with some earlier chip-sets/players!


With regard to Wilbert's "1440x1080 Mpeg2+2Ch AAC-LC (.ts) encode", are you saying both the video and audio can be played now?


And Jeez, I was hoping this 4GB file limit was going to become a distant memory, as it's not exactly useful on a player that's supposed to be able to spin high-definition encodes.

Hopefully the 4GB limit is only limited to Mpeg4 in .AVI and not Mpeg4 in .MP4. Personally speaking, I don't do much CD/DVD burning as all my encodes are stored on hard-drives... which is why I'm interested in your players (and future players) "networking" abilities.


Cheers

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I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout and A/V Gear
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post #119 of 4424 Old 11-07-2004, 08:24 AM
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SeeMoreDigital

I have read most of your post's at doom9 now, sorry about my previous post. I now see you definitely know much about Nero and MP4 audio.

I have been searching high and low, and I am missing something.

AAC-LC 5.1 file is played with IO Data DVD player -> Audio is DD?
IO Data DVD player send's this audio to DD receiver via SPDIF or coax and gets separated to appropriate channels for playback?

I have looked and really do not see if AAC-LC 5.1 is supported, but in looking I do not see the why it should'nt.

What is your take? If it can play 2 ch AAC-LC then why should it not be able to play 6 ch AAC-LC. I hope this is just be a bug.

thanks
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post #120 of 4424 Old 11-07-2004, 09:58 AM
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The AAC (LC and HE) audio streams, need to be decoded before the can be heard. In much the same way Dolby Digital and DTS streams need to be run thru' a decoder before they can be heard.

On a computer, such streams are decoded in software. But on a stand-alone player, the streams can be passed via a digital output (electrical or optical) connector to an DSS (Digital Surround Sound) amplifier. Or they can be decoded by the stand-alone players "on-board" processor and passed via analogue "pre-amplifiers" to powered speakers or a suitable DSS amplifier.

As you pointed out, Sigma say: "Up to 5.1 channels of MPEG-4 AAC-LC audio is supported" but how all 6 channels can be heard, requires clarification!

I have a variety of 6 channel surround sound files within the "Test Encodes" section of my web site if you (or anybody else) is interested.


Cheers

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