About to buy Onkyo SP-1000 please comment - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1207 Old 11-09-2004, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I've returned my Denon DVD-3910 after it progressively got worse at reading CDs. Denon absoutely SUCKS with quality control.

Anyway, I can get the Onkyo at a decent discount (17% off) from an authorized dealer, so I'm all about ready to get one.

I have a Samsung 46" DLP (3rd generation chip) HDTV. Has anyone used the Onkyo with this TV or one of it's bigger brothers?

Also, how does the audio compare on the Onkyo to the Denon. I know people say it's "better", but how is it better?

I'm purchasing this for 2 major reasons: 1) to be used as a very high quality CD/Universal audio player and 2) to be used as a very good upscaling DVD video player.

So yes, spending extra $ is ok, if it can improve audio significantly. My total price $1800 (after taxes) is the absolute maximum I can afford.

Is Onkyo coming out with a replacement for this player anytime soon? If so, when is it expected and what will it have?

I'm fed up with Denon, and I'm not buying any of the hype with the 5910. I'm sure they're fine making receivers, but they should either get out of the DVD business or improve QC.

Any comments or questions?

Oh yeah, my system is the following:

B&W Nautilus 805 speakers (fronts)
B&W CDM 1NT speakers (surround)
Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver
Odyssey Audio Stratos Plus Amp (front channels)
Groneberg Quattro Reference cables
Samsung HLP4663WX HDTV
DVD/CD player TBD
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post #2 of 1207 Old 11-09-2004, 11:35 PM
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OK, you did try a 3910. :)

Review of the Onkyo in the current Home Cinema Choice (really excellent British HT mag).

It got 5 stars out of 5 stars for Picture, Sound, Features, and Overall.

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The phrase "jaw dropping" doesn't cover the DV-SP1000 - "jaw dislocating" is more accurate.
No replacement anytime soon. This guy is still way early in its life cycle.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

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post #3 of 1207 Old 11-09-2004, 11:59 PM
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First off, the 1000 is a brand new model so it will not be replaced anytime soon.
You are going to love the video quality and smoother artifact free picture over the 3910.

As far as audio... I compared using modified Sim Audio 2 channel gear and very revealing custom made speakers.
To me, the 3910 sounds too digital and on the brighter side of neutral.
All comparisons were 2 channel analog only.

The sp 1000 sounds more musical(think toe tapping here) and a bit less digital.
You get a better connection and more involving connection with the music as opposed to just listening to the music whith the 3910.
This is the biggest and most obvious difference, and was noticed more with cd/sa-cd than dvd-a.
With dvd-a, I thought the sp 1000 was maybe too laid back, but I did very little comparison with that format as I use it the least by far.

There is one other universal at 2100.00 list that could possibly be even more musical going by there past, and thats the Marantz 9500, but there basically a Denon as far as I know on the video side.

If you need a comparison for multi channel hi rez, I tried it at a cost of 13k extra about 1.5 years ago and prefer 2 channel.....I do however have way overkill surround and center speakers now :)


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post #4 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 06:22 AM
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My comment? You lucky dog! :D

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #5 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 04:18 PM
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Was anybody able to answer this question raised in this thread:


Onkyo SP1000 Upconvert?

There appears to be a great deal on these from a Montana internet dealer...

Dan

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post #6 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hemi
Was anybody able to answer this question raised in this thread:


Onkyo SP1000 Upconvert?

There appears to be a great deal on these from a Montana internet dealer...

Dan
No upconversion through component on the Onkyo sp 1000 or Integra dps 10.5.


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post #7 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 04:40 PM
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Earz,

Thanks for the update.

Dan

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post #8 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hemi
Earz,

Thanks for the update.

Dan
WOW... that is a great deal at more than 500.00 less than I paid plus free ground shipping.

Greg
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post #9 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 05:41 PM
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Does anyone have a lipsync issue with this player?

Even using digital out #2.

Dave
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post #10 of 1207 Old 11-10-2004, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave7
Does anyone have a lipsync issue with this player?

Even using digital out #2.
Dave...mine has no issues, lip sync or otherwise...its all good:)


Greg
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post #11 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 07:31 AM
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I do have a lip-sync issue with my Onkyo SP1000. It is connected to an NEC HT1000 with a 6 meter HDMI cable outputting 720p and to an Anthem pre-pro with a 1 meter toslink cable. The bad news is that the audio delay feature in the Onkyo doesn't appear to work with the HDMI output. The good news is that the Anthem has the same feature and it works just fine. I need a 45 ms. delay to sync things up. The player puts out a great picture but I would be a frustrated camper if my Anthem did not have the ability to correct the delay.

Richard Fogg
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post #12 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 07:33 AM
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I have to thank Earz here for the heads up at an authorized Internet dealer for an insane price. I think that's going to push me over the edge before 11-16 when the sale ends. I was going to wait another month or two to get some more funds under my belt, but this kind of sale may be too hard and foolish to overlook.

It's truly a jaw dropping price. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name it here. Earz or I can tell you via PM. Good $500+ below MSRP. 100 percent legit and authorized. I'm truly speechless than they can offer this good of a deal.

Now, going into this, what tips to a new owner would you all give? What's the firmware you're all waiting on? Will I have an HDMI/DVI handshake issue if I decide to use an HDMI-DVI cable with this unit? Thanks! I guess we'll make this kind of the Onkyo 1000 newbs thread! :D

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #13 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 08:00 AM
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I am running HDMI to DVI and the coax digital out for DVD-V audio. For me, the sync issue seems to change for different DVDs. LOTR is spot on, but the superbit version of Snatch and Shrek II is way off - even (especially) the previews.

Interesting though, no (or significantly less) sync issue using composite video (don't bust on me - I hooked composite up trying to diagnose this). My pre/pro doesn't have a sync adjustment, and the player's adjustment only works for analog audio out. My guess is that this is the so-called firmware update (HDMI video sync to digital audio) because the picture is absolutely stunning...better than the 3910 running DVI - DVI which is supposed to be free of the BTB bug.

What happens now...Q is going to freak!

Dave
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post #14 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Dave7 wrote:
What happens now...Q is going to freak!
I never get completely free out of the gate, do I? :p

Quote:
Dave7 wrote:

For me, the sync issue seems to change for different DVDs. LOTR is spot on, but the superbit version of Snatch and Shrek II is way off - even (especially) the previews.

Interesting though, no (or significantly less) sync issue using composite video (don't bust on me - I hooked composite up trying to diagnose this). My pre/pro doesn't have a sync adjustment, and the player's adjustment only works for analog audio out. My guess is that this is the so-called firmware update (HDMI video sync to digital audio) because the picture is absolutely stunning...better than the 3910 running DVI - DVI which is supposed to be free of the BTB bug.

What you described here, though, could be a legitimate problem. Certainly it's something that can't be ignored at all.

That's certainly something to be mindful of, especially if you're considering diving in like I am. I make no apologies for being cautious, discerning, and downright picky. ;)

My HK 630 has sync adjustment, as best I can determine. Not too worried about that. Like I've said before, I have high confidence upgrading away from Faroudja based players. Denon really hasn't been a serious consideration for me for a couple of months, especially after the numerous threads in this forum. And since those are Faroudja based players, the 2900 excepted, which I would consider.

Since the Zenith is Faroudja and we all know the body of complaints, if I'm going up the ladder, it makes no sense to me whatsoever to go Faroudja again. The same problems exist with Faroudja players regardless of brand or price. No point in getting another one.

The question really comes down to: Moving on this sale now or waiting for the firmware upgrade then buying. Certainly I would enjoy plenty of aspects of this player, especially audio, if I buy now and wait for the firmware like everyone else. Not critical, but yes, I am going to be quite mindful of issues like this.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #15 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 10:08 AM
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The new firmware should fix the BTB and WTW clipping problem over HDMI->DVI. If you are having audio sync problems, call Onkyo/Integra support to be on the safe side and make sure they know about the problem. (I missed it if somebody said the firmware has audio sync fixes).

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #16 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PooperScooper
The new firmware should fix the BTB and WTW clipping problem over HDMI->DVI. If you are having audio sync problems, call Onkyo/Integra support to be on the safe side and make sure they know about the problem. (I missed it if somebody said the firmware has audio sync fixes).

larry
Well Larry ,what say you? Yay or nay? ;)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #17 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 11:20 AM
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Hey Q, no apology necessary for my shallow and sarcastic comment. I was just kidding because I know how much you have researched all the players out there, and no one has brought up any issue with this one until now. Just when you seems to have made a decision. I owe you an apology. After reading my own post, I do look like a wise-ass. That's not my intent.

It seems that the firmware contents are rumored to be a BTB/WTW fix unless larry (the discoverer/father of the problem) knows something more concrete. What is interesting is that when I spoke to Integra regarding this issue, they told me that the player passes the 1997 version of DVE with no problems, while the 2002 version seems to show the issue. They told me it was a DVE problem, not the player. Go figure. Honestly, I tend to believe larry long before the customer service person whom I had to call back three times for the same question.

Regarding the sync, they told me to exchange the player. If you have a pre/pro that has a delay, you can compensate much better than if you do not.

After researching this a bit, even if you over-delay, that is still better than having the audio lead the video. In nature, light travels faster than sound. So - we see things before we hear them, the difference in the two events depends on the distance between you and the thing you are watching/hearing. What goes against nature is when you hear something before you see it...even if you hear it just slightly beforehand. This is because our brain never experiences this in nature...apparently, but it makes sense to me. In short, over-delaying is better than under-delaying the audio because you subconsciously adjust it so it seems right. Having it properly sync'd is best of all.

Nevertheless, Integra did confirm a firmware update was coming, but not until early next year. I always thought it was just around the corner.

There is one point that hovers over any problem with the Onkyo and Integra players...that is that they have had very few issues in the past. A very good track record counts for a lot with me, and I suspect they will correct any problem with this player in order the preserve their professional reputation. Every dealer I have spoken to holds them in very high regard when it comes to reliability.

Dave
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post #18 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave7
Hey Q, no apology necessary for my shallow and sarcastic comment.


:p No worries. I hit that before I had my coffee. :D Edited now.

Quote:

I was just kidding because I know how much you have researched all the players out there, and no one has brought up any issue with this one until now. Just when you seems to have made a decision. I owe you an apology. After reading my own post, I do look like a wise-ass. That's not my intent.


I know you better than that. :D

Quote:


It seems that the firmware contents are rumored to be a BTB/WTW fix unless larry (the discoverer/father of the problem) knows something more concrete. What is interesting is that when I spoke to Integra regarding this issue, they told me that the player passes the 1997 version of DVE with no problems, while the 2002 version seems to show the issue. They told me it was a DVE problem, not the player. Go figure.


Heh. Why am I not surprised? ;)

Quote:

Honestly, I tend to believe larry long before the customer service person whom I had to call back three times for the same question.


Me, too!

Larry has been invaluable on this entire thing for sure. Larry, Earz, Franchot, you, and a couple of others, especially in that main Integra 10.5 thread. That thing almost deserves a financial donation!

Quote:


Regarding the sync, they told me to exchange the player.


Wait a second. So if I get this and I end up having the same problem, I should get it exchanged and I could get a unit that doesn't have it? Or is this a fault with the entire line? that would be rather a shame to go through the hassle of a couple of exchanges, let's say, and the problem is still there. Not a merry-go-round I really want to get on.

Quote:

If you have a pre/pro that has a delay, you can compensate much better than if you do not.


I do have this. I'm hoping I won't enter into a nightmare zone. ;) You're right: These are the kinds of things that help push me back on to the fence. :( D'oh!

Quote:


After researching this a bit, even if you over-delay, that is still better than having the audio lead the video.

In nature, light travels faster than sound. So - we see things before we hear them, the difference in the two events depends on the distance between you and the thing you are watching/hearing. What goes against nature is when you hear something before you see it...even if you hear it just slightly beforehand. This is because our brain never experiences this in nature...apparently, but it makes sense to me. In short, over-delaying is better than under-delaying the audio because you subconsciously adjust it so it seems right. Having it properly sync'd is best of all.


I really hope this isn't a big problem.

Quote:


Nevertheless, Integra did confirm a firmware update was coming, but not until early next year. I always thought it was just around the corner.

There is one point that hovers over any problem with the Onkyo and Integra players...that is that they have had very few issues in the past.


GREAT track record! That's why there's really no need to despair, just be cautious.

Quote:

A very good track record counts for a lot with me, and I suspect they will correct any problem with this player in order the preserve their professional reputation. Every dealer I have spoken to holds them in very high regard when it comes to reliability.
Ditto. Beyond money, I can't really see any good reason why not to get this player. Do you?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #19 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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After numerous thread searches on this player I couldn't find one thing wrong with it. I ordered it yesterday at a decent price. Now I'm hearing it has issues??

I'm confused. This is a lot of money for me, and I'm fed up with Denon. This Onkyo better work. I'll be using HDMI for video only, not for audio. I'm not sure if that'll affect the sync delay or what not.
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post #20 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 12:27 PM
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I almost ordered one just because it's an awesome price for such a good player. :)

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #21 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mitsguy
After numerous thread searches on this player I couldn't find one thing wrong with it. I ordered it yesterday at a decent price. Now I'm hearing it has issues??

I'm confused. This is a lot of money for me, and I'm fed up with Denon. This Onkyo better work. I'll be using HDMI for video only, not for audio. I'm not sure if that'll affect the sync delay or what not.
The only real problem is when you use HDMI->DVI for video. It clips BTB and WTW which is not uncommon in currect players. There is a fix coming for this. If there's audio synch settings on the analog outputs and not HDMI, they may be able to fix it or change it. Although the more common case is for the prepro/receiver to have settings for delay.

For a longer history on this player you need to check out the original thread about the Integra 10.5. The SP-1000 and the DPS-10.5 are bascially identical functionally except for video upconversion on the 10.5. Having 2 threads on basically the same player may make things harder to track. Here's the orginal thread with a lot of info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...11#post3160811

larry

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post #22 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 12:46 PM
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Thanks, Larry. In my case, HDMI-DVI would be the way I'd probably go, obviously for video only. The audio would be digital optical into my TV (yes it actually has one!) and coax or optical to the receiver. Do you think I'd have the sync problem at that rate? My HK 630 will let me adjust delay as necessary.

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post #23 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Thanks, Larry. In my case, HDMI-DVI would be the way I'd probably go, obviously for video only. The audio would be digital optical into my TV (yes it actually has one!) and coax or optical to the receiver. Do you think I'd have the sync problem at that rate? My HK 630 will let me adjust delay as necessary.
If there are sync issues the TV probably can't adapt (or can it?). The receiver should be alble to compensate.

larry

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post #24 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
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OK - I brought up this lip sync issue...let's not make mounds out of molehills...yet. No everyone has the issue.

And the whole "exchange it" response from Integra was more like an "I give up" from the customer service person. They certainly wouldn't admit to a problem over the phone...do any of them?

Nevertheless, the picture is still amazing.

Dave
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post #25 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
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I can move on that amazing offer if I need to. Ideally, I'd love to be able to wait until around January so I have a few more paychecks under my belt.

You all know how this market works better than I do. What are the chances of me seeing a sale with an amazing price like that again? I still can't get over the amazing price.

I saw some bizarre misprint on some site that almost led me to believe that the Onkyo 1000's MSRP had been reduced to $1699.99, which would certainly have explained this amazing price I'm looking at a lot better.

But...I went to Onkyo's website, and nothing's changed. Hmm...

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #26 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave7

...What is interesting is that when I spoke to Integra regarding this issue, they told me that the player passes the 1997 version of DVE with no problems, while the 2002 version seems to show the issue. They told me it was a DVE problem, not the player...
It's not a DVE problem. I have both DVEs. The newer DVE has an updated pluge reference that shows an extra gray bar(2% i think?). Depending when you called them... there may have been some miscommunication issues regarding what was seen in the lab. :confused:

Supposedly, the firmware has fixed all BTB issues when using HDMI <> HDMI/DVI.

mitsguy,
Make sure your dealer has a good return policy just in case you run out of options. I'm sure Onkyo will fix any issues on their flagship model. Check the other Integra 10.5 thread for more info on user reported issues.

I haven't seen audio sync problems with film based DVDs, but seen it with Eagles and The American President. Others have confirmed sync issues with the Eagles. Hoping it's not a video based DVD issue. I need to find more time to do additional testing.

American President has 4:3 pillar bars when using 720p or 1080i. Stretches when using source or 480p. This is the widescreen version. I'm guessing this DVD is mastered very cheaply and is crap since It was $10.

I just picked up band of brothers and borrowed some TV series DVDs.
Collecting more info before I contact Onkyo support.

dave7,
Don't know if Integra support is the same as Onkyo, but Onkyo at least acknowledged the BTB issue. I agree that better mastered DVDs look great on this player.

Maybe this should be moved to the Integra 10.5 thread. I'm hoping Kris Deering gets an eval model with the latest firmware to review soon. Or is it an Onkyo conspiracy? :D *jk*
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post #27 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 03:40 PM
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You say the firmware has fixED the problem...past tense...who has the firmware?

Dave
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post #28 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dave7
OK - I brought up this lip sync issue...let's not make mounds out of molehills...yet. No everyone has the issue.

And the whole "exchange it" response from Integra was more like an "I give up" from the customer service person. They certainly wouldn't admit to a problem over the phone...do any of them?

Nevertheless, the picture is still amazing.
I missed this part of your earlier post. When I called Integra support, I waited on the phone, and the tech woman went and demonstrated the problem to the "whole office" as she put it. There was no way this player passed BTB with DVE using HDMI->DVI. I didn't try the old VE - both have correct BTB data AFAIK. And when I called back a week or so later I was told a firmware fix was in the works. All this is chonicled in the other thread. I forgot the woman's name or I'd PM you so you can speak to somebody who knows what is what.

Also (to whoever questioned Onkyo vs Integra support), did you notice the support phone numbers are the same? :)

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #29 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 04:22 PM
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I saw somone posted that the Onkyo sp 1000 was reveiwed in this months issue of some U.K rag and got 5 out of 5 stars and a glowing reveiw.

Anyone got the name of the rag?

Greg
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post #30 of 1207 Old 11-11-2004, 04:25 PM
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Will the player play + and - DVD's?
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Closed Thread DVD Players (Standard Def)

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