My sammy HD941 review - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 738 Old 12-03-2004, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxbat121
Only time HD941 won't mess up with black levels is when it is using HDMI to HDMI in YCbCr format. DVI devices does not support YCbCr. They are RGB only. So, no matter
Foxbat, does HDMI automatically use the "YCbCr format" or is that something you have to set?

Panny 65VT50 / DTV Genie / OPPO 103 / Roku 3 / Denon 1613 / Klipsch Quintet 5.0
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post #92 of 738 Old 12-03-2004, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mallu2u
Constrictor: Sony shall not play DVD- Audio and Panny shall not play SACD. Hope you already know that. Look for the main threads on these players (started by Paul) to ask Qs and make your decision. Now back to Sammy review.
I was under the impression that any DVD player can play DVD Audio?? SACD was the proprietery one as far as I understood. My old Toshiba DVD player handles DVD-A, sampler disks from CES. Help??

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #93 of 738 Old 12-03-2004, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by joe221
I was under the impression that any DVD player can play DVD Audio?? SACD was the proprietery one as far as I understood. My old Toshiba DVD player handles DVD-A, sampler disks from CES. Help??
That is because almost all DVD-Audio discs also comes with DD or DTS track. But to play true hi-res LPCM audio that DVD-Audio offers, you still need a specialized DVD-Audio player.
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post #94 of 738 Old 12-03-2004, 05:23 PM
 
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DVD-A and SACD high-res capability require DVD-A or SACD capable players and analog outputs (or proprietary digital connections, such as i-link, meridian's stuff etc).

Often, SACD hybrids also have a CD layer, so you can often play these discs on regular players, but you will not get high-res. And you will not get high res unless you're connected via analog.
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post #95 of 738 Old 12-03-2004, 08:01 PM
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HDMI-to-HDMI should default to YCbCr, but there is always an option to do RGB. The only reason to do this would be if the YCbCr-to-RGB conversion was better in the source vs the display. I seriously doubt many people could tell the difference in the processing of this digital conversion on even a very Hi-End display.

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #96 of 738 Old 12-04-2004, 11:29 AM
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earlier discussion on the 841 was bang on, i took one home last night to play with it and was severly dissapointed in its performance audio drop outs, washed out picture, lousey progrssive scan pic, blurry, dvi out failed to perform at all. my panny s27 does a better job(in progressive scan mode) than that POS took it back this morning pronto............

behind every successful man is a suprised mother-inlaw......
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post #97 of 738 Old 12-04-2004, 12:07 PM
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I am just going to add to this mess, but at least af far as I can tell, there really has been no comprehensive review of this player (941) posted yet, correct?

Just a few facts and particularly the notes on the DVI problem are really the only substantial things I have seen. Has anyone come across a substantial review of the player yet? I, like many of you, are waiting on this before I choose the Denon, Panasonic, or Samsung.

- Kirk
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post #98 of 738 Old 12-04-2004, 05:44 PM
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I just got a 941 yesterday to check out with my Sanyo PLV-Z2. Unfortunately it only comes with a short HDMI male to DVI male cable. I was hoping it had a simple HDMI male to DVI female cable so that I could use my existing ceiling routed DVI cable.

I think I found what I need here (can anyone confirm?) part number ADA-HDMIM-2-DVIF....

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/products/dvi-hdmi.jsp

In any case, using 480p over component (I know, but it is all I could try for now) looked pretty good, but not that much different than my Sony 400 disk DVD changer.

After I get the part from gefen I will post another review after using AVIA.

One thing that I did not like off the bat was the really bright display. I have a dedicated home theater and it is annoyingly bright. There is an option to turn it off, but the next time you turn the player off/on then it turns on again (arg!).

Matt
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post #99 of 738 Old 12-04-2004, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mdhorne
One thing that I did not like off the bat was the really bright display. I have a dedicated home theater and it is annoyingly bright. There is an option to turn it off, but the next time you turn the player off/on then it turns on again (arg!).
That's the only thing I don't like about this player. I'm going to try a small strip of tinted film over the display.

Panny 65VT50 / DTV Genie / OPPO 103 / Roku 3 / Denon 1613 / Klipsch Quintet 5.0
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post #100 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 12:21 AM
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I just picked this player up at Magnolia, and connected it via HDMI to my HLP4663. For the most part I am pretty pleased, it is a big improvement over my previous player.

I am a bit disappointed though. I the only test I have handy right now is the THX optimizer on Heathers special edition. Unfortunately I am only seeing 7 of the 10 blacks in the brightness setup http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/brightness.html. Which means the player is not passing BTB, even via HDMI. Now maybe my set is forcing negotiation into RGB, or the DVD is mismastered. I will try to get ahold of Avia or Video essentials to get a better look tomorrow.

Louis

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post #101 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lgerbarg
I just picked this player up at Magnolia, and connected it via HDMI to my HLP4663. For the most part I am pretty pleased, it is a big improvement over my previous player.

I am a bit disappointed though. I the only test I have handy right now is the THX optimizer on Heathers special edition. Unfortunately I am only seeing 7 of the 10 blacks in the brightness setup http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/brightness.html. Which means the player is not passing BTB, even via HDMI. Now maybe my set is forcing negotiation into RGB, or the DVD is mismastered. I will try to get ahold of Avia or Video essentials to get a better look tomorrow.

Louis
Do you mean you can only see 7 out of the 10 blocks no matter how you set the brightness? I just ran this test the other day with my Denon 1910 to my sammy 4674 and I think the instructions stated to adjust the shadow of the THX logo until it disappears. At this point you should be able to still make out 7 of 10 black boxes. This is exactly what happened for me.

Just looking for clarification to make sure we are both running the test correctly.
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post #102 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 06:16 AM
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As long as the connection is not HDMI-to-DVI and the HDMI-to-HDMI chain is not using any type of "enhanced" setting, the HD941 passes below black video material.

Do not (for like the billionth time) use the THX Optimizer patterns: they are flawed and have been shown to encode black anywhere from digital level 14 to digital level 24! Black is digital level 16 -- period. Get a real calibration disc to judge what a player/display combination can/can't do. You might want to get Digital Video Essentials ($17 from Deep Discount DVD) for below black calibration/testing as Avia contains no below black or above white video. Avia Pro ($400 list) does contain this video material.

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #103 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 10:06 AM
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I received the 941 from J&R Music on Friday, hooked it up to a Dell W4200 HD plasma yesterday using HDMI to HDMI and played several DVDs with it. Here is the verdict:

Regardless of what I tried, I couldn't get the TV and player to both use 768p, even though the Dell's display is 1024x768. Odd. 720p and 1080i worked fine.

I played a Blue Oyster Cult live concenrt DVD at 720p and 1080i. This is a good test of black levels, since the DVD was filmed in a dark concert hall. Overall the picture looked great, and the sound quality was near perfect. Good color, and impressive overall.

Popped in Hero. Problems. Color seemed washed out and the overall picture was very grainy. Sound was ok. I'm not sure if this was a player problem or a problem with the DVD quality - I'm going to try this DVD on my downstairs player to see if I can repeat the problem on a different setup.

Popped in HellBoy. Again, lots of action, sound, darks and colors. Looked outstanding at 1080i. No problem at all. Very impressive.
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post #104 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Popped in Hero. Problems. Color seemed washed out and the overall picture was very grainy. Sound was ok. I'm not sure if this was a player problem or a problem with the DVD quality -
Hero is a poor choice of material unless you own an imported version. The colors are washed out in the US version.
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post #105 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 12:04 PM
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I'd like to know how this player performs in terms of SACD and DVD-A audio quality. Can anybody shed light on this? Thanks.
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post #106 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 12:23 PM
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HD841 has outstanding DVD-A and SACD sound quality. However, it sometimes drops out of a song on many DVD-A discs. If 941 can improve the DVD-A stability, it will be a great SACD and DVD-A player.
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post #107 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr
As long as the connection is not HDMI-to-DVI and the HDMI-to-HDMI chain is not using any type of "enhanced" setting, the HD941 passes below black video material.
There are no "enhanced" settings on the HD941. If it's not passing BTB on hdmi-hdmi, it's not looking very good for the sammy. I thought someone confirmed that it did pass btb.
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post #108 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
There are no "enhanced" settings on the HD941.
According to the manual, the enhanced black level is in Menu, Display Setup, Black Level. It gives you a choice of on or off.
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post #109 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 02:19 PM
 
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The preferred choice is almost always OFF. Using enhanced mode performs expansion to PC levels, this is not desired.
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post #110 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 03:15 PM
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I just witnessed a Samsung HD941 hooked up to a HLP6163 at my brothers house per HDMI-HDMI with included cable and all I can say is, it blows away his Denon 1910 and my Samsung 931. Really nice detailed PQ and crisp sound...I am going to lend him my Avia disk to further improve the PQ on his system. I wish TVA would get this player in since I have the same TV and seen the results first hand. For under $300 it is a steal.

Joe V.
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post #111 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwv651
I just witnessed a Samsung HD941 hooked up to a HLP6163 at my brothers house per HDMI-HDMI with included cable and all I can say is, it blows away his Denon 1910 and my Samsung 931. Really nice detailed PQ and crisp sound...I am going to lend him my Avia disk to further improve the PQ on his system. I wish TVA would get this player in since I have the same TV and seen the results first hand. For under $300 it is a steal.
Have you seen the s97 on the 63 series? Still waiting for a good comparison between the two players. Very happy with my s97 on my 5063 but never really done looking.
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post #112 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 03:54 PM
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I am awaiting my 941 from TVA. In my current setup I have a HD-DirecTV tivo hooked up to a Sammy HLP61 via a HDMI-HDMI cable. I have a DVI-DVI cable already run for my DVD player (silly me thought the 941 would be like the 841 with DVI out). My entertainment center does not allow me to easily remove the DVI-DVI cable to replace it with a DVI-HDMI cable. Especially in light of the initial reports that the 941 may only pass BTB over straight HDMI, I am thinking of using the HDMI cable for the 941, and getting a DVI(Female)>HDMI(male) adapter to hook the tivo box into the DVI port on the TV. Will I notice any reduced PQ watching the tivo box in this setup? If not, does anyone have a recommendation on such an adapter? Thanks!
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post #113 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricScott
Have you seen the s97 on the 63 series? Still waiting for a good comparison between the two players. Very happy with my s97 on my 5063 but never really done looking.
Know I have not seen the S97...but I have seen the Denon 1910...Samsung 931... and 841 on my HLP6163 and today the Samsung 941 on my brothers HLP6163 and the Samsung 941 is the best of all these players so far. I was going to purchase the Denon 2910 but after seeing the HD-941 it would be hard for me to justify the price difference...and the HLP6163 and HD-941 was not even calibrated. I would bet the HD-941 would look even better on a smaller set than the 61"...I can't wait to get my hands on this player...it looks to be a perfect match to the HLP 63 series TV...But if you are happy with the S97 why not just enjoy it. After I get my 941, I will calibrate with my Avia disk and give a full report.

Joe V.
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post #114 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 05:12 PM
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I wanted to add one more thing...We tried a lot of different movies with dark and normal light scenes and they looked great...even played my recorded DVD+R copies without a hitch...this was important to me since I have well over 100 DVD's recorded in DVD+R format. We did not try the DVD-A or SACD part of this player.

Joe V.
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post #115 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwv651
After I get my 941, I will calibrate with my Avia disk and give a full report.
Look forward to it. Agree that I probably should just enjoy my s97 but I'm still curious about the 941. Preordered it in July from TVA and with all of the delays got the s97 when it first came available and cancelled my 941 order.
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post #116 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mchuckp
Do you mean you can only see 7 out of the 10 blocks no matter how you set the brightness? I just ran this test the other day with my Denon 1910 to my sammy 4674 and I think the instructions stated to adjust the shadow of the THX logo until it disappears. At this point you should be able to still make out 7 of 10 black boxes. This is exactly what happened for me.

Just looking for clarification to make sure we are both running the test correctly.
Yeah, I could not see it no matter how I set the brightness. I ran out to Fry's and bought DVE today (I am impatient ;-) and I cannot make it show the outer bars in the Pluge pattern. I am hopping it is just something with my set that I can change in the service menu. Overall the player does seem to play very well, and I have not noticed any particularly bad clipping, but I am far from an expert. I will take a picture of the pattern and post it tomorrow (I lent my camera's USB cable to a coworker for the weekend) if I can't figure out how to make this work.

Thanks.

Louis

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post #117 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 06:37 PM
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Go here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...53#post4762853

and make sure the choice of "ON" and "OFF" is set to "OFF". HDMI-to-HDMI will pass below black video when any "enhanced" settings are "OFF".

The most efficient path is seldom a straight line.
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post #118 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
According to the manual, the enhanced black level is in Menu, Display Setup, Black Level. It gives you a choice of on or off.
It is NOT a PC or RGB level selection. It will not control whether or not the player passes btb.

The black level control is probably the 0 or 7.5 ire selection for component output.
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post #119 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 07:20 PM
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I promised in another thread but this one seems to be getting the action so I'll post my review here. I bought a 941 last week to see what the HDMI - HDMI could do for me with my new (2 weeks old) JVC 61Z585. My other DVD player is an RP82 connected via Blue Jeans component.

I first calibrated both using DVE. As has been reported, the 941 does pass BTB via HDMI-HDMI. However, there was a ton of "noise" or ringing around all of the black bars while the RP82 was very smooth.

I compared both over 3 hours using the following discs:

Toy Story 2
Shrek
Finding Nemo
LOTR TT EE
Moulin Rouge
O Brother

The 941 can look very good. Colors are good, black detail is decent, but macroblocking is definately an issue. I took pictures, but it's darn hard to see on the pics, however, it's VERY easy to see on the screen. On TS 2 you could see it in numerous scenes in the beginning of the movie, same with Nemo and LOTR. Very apparent and it would be hard to live with.

When compared to the RP82, there's really no reason to worry about keeping the 941. Colors via the RP82 just jumped off the screen, much more vibrant. Looking at the exact same scenes back and forth and then even pausing at the same point and flipping back and forth it was very obvious. Colors, skin tones, and generally the whole picture looked more washed out than with the RP82. The only time that the 941 looked "better" was on Moulin Rouge because skin tones weren't quite as red as with the RP82, but the makeup in that movie I think had a lot to do with the skin tones so being a bit more flushed may be more accurate. Also, some of the brighter scenes, such as when Nicole changes into the white dress with white gloves - that was SO bright via the 941 it was hard to watch. Her hair via the 941 looked brown rather than auburn. The 941 - if not being looked at right next to the RP82 would look like a fine player, but I don't see enough, or really any, reason to keep the 941 over the RP82. So, it looks like the Panny will stay until HD-DVD gets to a price point that I'm willing to jump in on.
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post #120 of 738 Old 12-05-2004, 07:48 PM
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Definitely concur and agree with that, BT. For your setup, I would have been very surprised if you'd chosen the 941 over a great pro scan player like the 82.

Good demo, though! :)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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