Momitsu DVD V880DX Right for me?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a DVD player that will give me a great playback picture. I currently have a Panasonic E55S DVD Recorder and the playback is better
than my Sony S525 DVD Player. The TV I have is a Toshiba 34HFX83. I do have a DVI input on the TV that I have never used....always used component input mainly because I have had a player that supports DVI.
I guess the main question is .... will I get that much better of a playback picture if I buy the Momitsu or a similar mid level priced recorder. I though about the Denon or Zenith but saw the problems they had. Any help would be appreciated.. .it is worth buying?????
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 01:04 PM
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Is that 34"? Its a bit small - you might not notice much of a difference unless you sit fairly close to it. If you were using a projector its somewhat obvious - say 5-10% improvement in resolution.

However, note that while you'll get a stunning picture on properly flagged DVD's - aka major Hollywood releases - the player has no motion adaptive progressive scan so video sources are awful. My solution is this unit plus a DCDi player on component as a backup so I can watch video sources such as Anime and TV show DVD's.

So if you go this route, don't through your other player away.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick reply ToddMcF2002. Yes the TV is 34", BUT what I
watch is alot of TV show DVDs besides Movies and also show my Panasonic
E55 tapes. The player really makes TV show DVD look awful??? Wow, good thing I posted here. Now the question is WHAT player should I get that will play Movies DVDs AND TV Show DVDs with the best quality I can get (I guess including Motion Adaptive Progressive scan)...sounds like I need that
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 01:30 PM
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I'll qualify "look awful".

Its just as hi-rez, but since the player has no motion adaptive progressive algorithms to handle video sources (DVD's without 3:2 flags) it combs all over the place.

Combing looks like someone ran a comb over the edge of an object that is moving - your seeing the interlacing lines. On video sources like Anime/TV shows you'll see it as a scene is composing / ending. Its pretty distracting - and you'll see it on literally every scene.

The Momitsu will also comb a few times on most movies where someone made a video edit and broke the flag sequence on the DVD. My brother and I both have the same projector and he rarely notices it but I see it alot. I must be more sensitive to it.

I do use the Momitsu as my primary player though. If the combing in a movie becomes distracting I use my backup player. For example, I watched Spiderman Superbit followed by Spiderman 2 right after it. Spiderman had 0 combs and Spiderman 2 had 3 combs spread out throughout the film. Not enough to make me get off my duff and switch players!

Still worthwhile in my opinion.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx for the info ToddMcF2002...But is there a player that will solve all my
needs for playback and give me a great picture for ALL sources...ie TV Show DVDs, and Movie DVDs ... I dont really care if I need to use the DVI interface on my TV, but I would like the best possible picture for all sources
(obviously that includes the ability for motion adaptive progressive algorithms ) Any ideas or help GREATLY appreciated....
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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One other thing, I dont really want to spend $800-1000 on a DVD player...
I just want one that has a great picture for TV Show DVDs and Movie DVDs
One that has great motion adaptive progressive scanning and also good DACs. Any ideas or input??????
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 04:17 PM
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I don't know if you are following the other threads or not, but the I-O Data AVel Linkplayer2 may be worth a look. It has the newest Sigma Media Processor, the EM8620L that includes motion adaptive deinterlacing, and a 150mHz 12 bit DAC.

I'm not going to engage in hyperbole, but it's putting up a very respectable upconverted 1080i DVD picture via component. I'm watching Monsters Inc., right now, Toy Story a few minutes ago, and no indication of the Chroma Upsampling Error (CUE), and no instances of combing.

On the THX Optimizer, it's also resolving more lines in the resolution test than my Panasonic RP82 does, itself a pretty highly regarded unit that includes the FLI2200 Faroudja DCDi deinterlacer.

It's pretty hard to fault anything the RP82 does, but the LinkPlayer2 is winning me over based not only on it's versatility that includes native HDTV playback of Windows WMV-HD and DivX-HD, networking, multi-media playback of multiple codecs and formats for video, photos and music, but surprisingly, for the picture quality of its DVD-Video playback.

For it's $249 price, it's a lot of bang for the buck.

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post #8 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 05:26 PM
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I just bought an Panasonic XP50 from someone on the forum here - its essentially the RP82's replacement + improved audio DAC's. The XP30 is actually the literal replacement.

I can attest to what Tom is saying. Its an amazing player and any of the following models are clones of the Panasonic family with the FLI2200: (Panasonic RP82/XP30/XP50 and Denon 1600). You can get these second hand around here for under $300. The XP30/XP50 are of course newer and probably preferred due to known spindle failures in the RP82 and 1600.
They can be fixed though!

Problem is - none of these caliber of inexpensive players are produced anymore. The manufacturers are all making high end universal players, DVD recorders or upscaling players. The upscaling players all have problems:

The new Faroudja Chip 23XX has macroblocking (Denon 1910 - 3910, LG, Samsung, Zenith etc). To the Samsung add White / Black crush over DVI.
The lower end players have no motion adaptive deinterlacing (Bravo, Momitsu)

I'm not familiar with Tom's player with software motion adaptive but if he is comparing it favorably to the RP82 thats compelling. The DAC's have good numbers. What Tom has NOT said is how it does on video sources (TV & Anime DVD's). That tests that Software motion adaptive implementation on the Linkplayer2's Sigma chip. I know that WinDVD softens up on video sources so I suspect his player will as well. This is where Faroudja DCDi and Silicon Image's SIi504 chip simply rock.

I'm not going to speak for what I know little about so perhaps Tom could try some flagless sources? I bet his RP82's DCDi will dance circles around his Linkplayer2 but I'd love to be proven otherwise!

So not knowing the performance of Tom's recommendation in relation to Video Sources I would recommend the XP30/XP50. They are not DVI, but they are best of breed Faroudja FLI2200 DCDi without Macroblocking. Inexpensive, great reliability awesome picture. I was just looking at Superbit 5th Element on the XP50 and its very close to Momitsu DVI and it won't comb!
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 05:40 PM
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Don't forget the Neuneo HD player for $200 which scales via component or VGA. It may not have Faroudja but does a decent job according to reports. Google and search here for reviews. I have Zenith DVB318 and MacroBlocking is way over hyped. Its Faroudja makes TV shows look perfect and film even better. The only thing that can beat my Zenith (on film tittles only as video tittles Faroudja is king) is my HTPC which has its own flaws and troubles.

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 05:45 PM
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And I too can attest to what Todd is saying about the XP30/50/RP82/Denon 1600 et al.

What I'm not sure about, is what I thought I was already testing for on the LinkPlayer2, when you mentioned here...

Quote:
What Tom has NOT said is how it does on video sources (TV & Anime DVD's). That tests that Software motion adaptive implementation on the Linkplayer2's Sigma chip. I know that WinDVD softens up on video sources so I suspect his player will as well. This is where Faroudja DCDi and Silicon Image's SIi504 chip simply rock.
I thought by viewing Toy Story and Monster's Inc, isn't that Anime? It handled those without any instances of combing. There is a bit of moire in Sully's hair at times. I can't remember if I saw that in the RP82 or not. But I can vouch for the performance of 30 fps and 2:2 pulldown video sourced material or TV. No problem at all, stays sharp and crisp throughout, equal to the RP82 on Auto2 mode.

You can't mention any of these players in the same breath as the SI504 chip, but the LinkPlayer does do native HDTV in WMV9 or DivX-HD. I don't think anything else that's not a Sigma EM8620L can do that yet.

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post #11 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 05:46 PM
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Also if you can recommend any flagless titles or material, I can review them.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 05:56 PM
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I like the picture and non-HDCP DVI of Momitsu, I do not like everything else. Does anyone know another DVD player with non-HDCP DVI ? My projector L300U can only take non-HDCP, and I am waiting for the next sub-$1500 HDMI model.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-02-2004, 09:12 PM
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Tom, those titles are films - they have 3:2 flags although Monsters Inc has some flag bugs.

By anime I mean Japanese Animation or other video sources like "Friends" on DVD, or "X-Files" on DVD. Basically, stuff that aired on TV.

That will test your motion adaptive. Please let us know if you can test it - I'd love to get the feedback!
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok Todd, I'm sold .... only one problem .. where can I find a XP30 or and XP50??? Discontinued...that figures.. the good stuff always gets pushed aside.. anyway I would love to get an XP30 or XP50 if possible... any ideas?
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Tom, those titles are films - they have 3:2 flags although Monsters Inc has some flag bugs.

By anime I mean Japanese Animation or other video sources like "Friends" on DVD, or "X-Files" on DVD. Basically, stuff that aired on TV.

That will test your motion adaptive. Please let us know if you can test it - I'd love to get the feedback!
Okay, let me get this straight..."Friends on DVD," or "X-Files" on DVD.
Do you mean collectors editions of those titles available for purchase? Or off the air recordings? Off the air recordings I've done in abundance. They play crisp and sharp, as does 30 fps camcorder footage. If I need (or can) rent Friends or X-Files, I'll get them from Netflix. But I need to know if that's what you meant, in contrast to off the air recordings of those programs.

Because in general, I think the problem with video for deinterlacers is the 30 fps or 2:2 pulldown, which XP30/XP50/RP82 handle via the Faroudja Auto-2 mode.

I have verified that the Sigma EM8620L deinterlacer in the I-O Data LinkPlayer2 does properly support 30fps video and 2:2 pulldown.

I think your point would be that most flag based readers will handle the normal 3:2 pulldown of 24 fps movies, but that adaptive motion accounts for other cadences like 1:1 or 2:2 common in video sources at 30 fps.

I can only vouch that the I-O Data LinkPlayer2 appears to be handling all cadences and formats to the equal of the RP82 that I own, with the exception of not having tried specifically Japanes Anime or Friends or X-Files. But it is handling 30 fps 2:2 cadence 480p progressive video with aplomb, something I've found many otherwise good DVD players won't do.

Also sorry to take so long to respond...somehow missed this topic reply.

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INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-04-2004, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there ANY current players that will do what the RP82, XP30 or XP50 can do?? Or have the manufacturers gone "el cheapo" on us. My main problem is my Panasonic E55S on playback of TV show DVDs or running the satellite
signal thru it will show on fast switch between scenes or between people in the same scene.. you will see horizontal flashes of scan lines (mainly in the middle of the TV screen. Now if I hook up my old Sony DVP NS425SP I DO NOT see these quick scan lines on TV based DVDs and I use the same cable hookups for both (Monster Component Video and Audio cables). Could it be a problem in the processer for progressive scan built in the Panasonic E55S??? Movies I never see the scan lines.. only TV based shows
and running the feed thru the E55S and watching regular satellite programs. I am totally confused.. why is this happening??? The Panasonic has a better playback picture than the Sony which is why I think a better player for playback is the way to go. My TV is a 34HFX83 Toshiba HDTV...do the Panasonic and the Toshiba have a compatibility issue??? AS you can see..I'm fishing and getting nowhere. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-04-2004, 05:57 PM
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Friends and X-Files are just examples - and it would be rental DVD's.
I watch alot of anime - two anime titles that comb consistently are:
1. Raxephon
2. Full Metal Panic

Also - movie with a ton of combs (bad video edits) is Charlies Angels 2.

Jaycook:

You need to get them from other forum members ideally. You can try VideoGon and the Hardware for Sale and Trade on HomeTheaterForum.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-04-2004, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx Todd for the answer.... there is on eon EBay that is a buy it now for 300.00. Kinda wary about buying one there. Also, do you have any idea on my Scan line issue? And last but not least....will I see that big of difference in playback with the Panasonic XP30 over the playback on my Panasonic E55S?
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-04-2004, 08:20 PM
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Todd, ironically I was playing Charlies Angels 2 - Full Throttle last night since I own that title and it's one of my favorite movies. It plays beautifully, fully the equal of my RP82, at least. No combing whatsoever on any scene or chapter.

I can appreciate your perspective as a proud new owner of the XP50. I'm still very fond of my RP82.

But as an owner of both machines, the Panasonic RP82 and the I-O Data LinkPlayer2, I'm going to have to take exception to the characterization that the Panasonic's Faroudja DCDi will "dance circles" around the LinkPlayer2. Certainly the Panny does no wrong, but the new Sigma EM8620L processor is almost certainly a big improvement over the Momitsu 880, upon which I think your experience with the combing is based.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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