Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkushner
Doug:

I can't get a disc that allows program memory either. My program memory features are always greyed out. I'm amazed that PowerDVD will remember a disc without doing anything but a $1K player can't do this?

Brian

I tried it on To Have and Have Not last night, and it did work. However, it takes a lot of steps, when you reinsert the disc it automatically starts playing instead of waiting for you to choose Play, it goes to the beginning of the chapter and not the moment you paused, and finally: it plays back the memorized chapter and then stops!

In short, it's much more trouble than its worth. I agree, why would a cheap player like my old Sony have a feature like this, but not the Elite? It seems like it would be easy technically. The player simply memorizes the last stopped or paused location for any particular disc. I guess the answer can be found in this thread: most people never use it.

Doug
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post #542 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by UMD_Terp
As for the power cord, given that the one the player comes with isn't made of spaghetti, replacing it will do nothing for you.

LOL!
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post #543 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkushner
Here is another question I have. I've noticed when watching movies I have some problems with the REDS blotching. A red wall for instance, looks blotchy or melting, same for a red shirt. Is this the player?

I noticed something weird in the reds on the store's old demo unit. I saw it on the red 'A' in the AVIA main menu. It was more like a washed out banding. I figured it was either due to the old buggy firmware it was running (1.306) or the TV.

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post #544 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 09:32 AM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by AVfile
I noticed something weird in the reds on the store's old demo unit. I saw it on the red 'A' in the AVIA main menu. It was more like a washed out banding. I figured it was either due to the old buggy firmware it was running (1.306) or the TV.

I was just about on the verge of returning my 3910, do to green push and btb issues, and picking up the 59avi, but reading this have made me think twice. Now I'm considering getting a cheap progressive scan player and waiting for Blu-Ray.

Can someboby build player that we can stick disc in and it will look great
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post #545 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 10:28 AM
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It didn't stop me from ordering a new one. The store demo was built way back in NOV 2003. If they were all like that they would have been flunked by the reviewers, and everyone on here would be puking all over it. If it's good enough for Kris Deering it should be good enough for us. Pioneer has long since fixed the only major gripe Secrets had with it (chroma delay). A company with such a long standing reputation for reference video quality would not let this slip by.

I suggest you go to an Elite dealer and try before you buy. I will be testing my very own unit in a couple days, before it leaves the store.

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post #546 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkushner
Here is another question I have. I've noticed when watching movies I have some problems with the REDS blotching. A red wall for instance, looks blotchy or melting, same for a red shirt. Is this the player?

I noticed this in scene two of AOTC, in Palpatine's red room. This was before Avia calibration, after which the problem went away.

I am having numerous problems with compression artifacts that I mentioned earlier, but am doing some more comparisons before posting.

"Guess I'll have to buy the White Album again"
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post #547 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkushner
How can I get a dvd to play from the same position once the dvd has been removed.. When I try program memory it says it can't be activated from here. Can this be done?

brian

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you can't. Not if you remove the disc. If you press Stop and then turn off the unit (using standby not the main power switch) and then turn it on again you should be able to resume. But only if you leave the disc in. Also, if you press stop twice you're smoked.

Now it wasn't always like this, on my very first pio this wasn't a problem. It's something they introduced when they "upgraded" their DVD series a few years back.

Also, on some later models you can't turn off the display completely. Yeah, you can dim it but not turn it off completely like you could on say an oldie like the pio 717.

You win some, you lose some.

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post #548 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auditor55
I was just about on the verge of returning my 3910, do to green push and btb issues, and picking up the 59avi, but reading this have made me think twice. Now I'm considering getting a cheap progressive scan player and waiting for Blu-Ray.

Can someboby build player that we can stick disc in and it will look great

If you have tried the 3910 and found it to be not to your liking, then you should give the 59avi a turn provided you can take the 3910 back and have the option of taking the 59avi back as well if it is not to your liking either... FWIW, this player has been great with my Mits. DLP... I seem to remember you went from a Mits DLP to a Diamond CRT, correct? I think this player would look great on your CRT as well...
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post #549 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkushner
Here is another question I have. I've noticed when watching movies I have some problems with the REDS blotching. A red wall for instance, looks blotchy or melting, same for a red shirt. Is this the player?

Before (1 year ago) Pio players suffered really badly from the CUE bug (chroma upsampling error) which is most evident in red scenes. This is a flaw in the MPEG decoder, Mitsubishi in earlier models. Which decoder they use now I'm not sure, but the algorithms is probably better. However, even though the new decoder is apparently a bit better the CUE can still rear it's ugly head. So although it's better in some situations it can still manifest itself.

Check out the info on Secrets here

One would think that a brand like Pio wouldn't have this, but it's only something that they've begun to address the last year...

It's not magic. It's science.
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post #550 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 03:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by UMD_Terp
If you have tried the 3910 and found it to be not to your liking, then you should give the 59avi a turn provided you can take the 3910 back and have the option of taking the 59avi back as well if it is not to your liking either... FWIW, this player has been great with my Mits. DLP... I seem to remember you went from a Mits DLP to a Diamond CRT, correct? I think this player would look great on your CRT as well...

I finally got a chance to see this player hooked up to a Mits 65" inch CRT and when I did I wasn't that impressed with the PQ over 3910. It might be better, but I don't want to get one only to inherit a different set of problems from the 3910. Also, I would have cough up another $300 more than what I paid for the Denon to get the 59avi.

Why did you choose the 59avi over the 3910? I assume you checked out both players?
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post #551 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auditor55
I finally got a chance to see this player hooked up to a Mits 65" inch CRT and when I did I wasn't that impressed with the PQ over 3910. It might be better, but I don't want to get one only to inherit a different set of problems from the 3910. Also, I would have cough up another $300 more than what I paid for the Denon to get the 59avi.

Why did you choose the 59avi over the 3910? I assume you checked out both players?

Basically since I have a DLP, I didn't want to deal with the possibility of having the macroblocking issue at all, especially on a $1k+ player. I found that both players looked fairly similar, but I did not have a chance to look at both with my display. I think the problems with the 59avi are minor... the issues of passing BTB and potential macroblocking on the 3910 made the decision easier... I think your assessment regarding both players is correct in that they both produce a good, comparable picture. To my eyes, the 59avi looked better... and it was a few hundred cheaper than the 3910... I could find no good deals locally on either player and went with Hippo's Audio Video... they are authorized and had a great price as compared to local dealers...
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post #552 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 04:56 PM
 
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UMD_Terp:

Smart choice. I own one and it looks smashing on the Qualia.

Enjoy.
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post #553 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auditor55
I was just about on the verge of returning my 3910, do to green push and btb issues, and picking up the 59avi, but reading this have made me think twice. Now I'm considering getting a cheap progressive scan player and waiting for Blu-Ray.

Can someboby build player that we can stick disc in and it will look great

The DV-59avi looks *great*. I a/b demo'ed the 3910 and the 59-avi on a DPX-1100
with a Stewart Filmscreen and the 59avi beat the pants off the 3910. It wasn't
even a contest.

Explain how the first generation blu-ray player will make your existing collection of dvd's look better? Certainly blu-ray discs will look great, but I don't think regular dvd's will look much better (probably worse since the machines will be built to exploit the capabilities of blu-ray, not regular dvd) on a dv-59avi or even a 3910.
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post #554 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 06:06 PM
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It happened last week when watching Ray, and this week watching another movie. Everything is working fine until the movie we're watching goes through a layer change. Then, the sound goes out. The 59AVi flashes "link check" on the display, and my 56TXi receiver does the same, but the receiver switches to my Cable box input, and the link does not reconnect.

Does anyone have any idea what this could be?
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post #555 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluesea
I noticed this in scene two of AOTC, in Palpatine's red room. This was before Avia calibration, after which the problem went away.

I am having numerous problems with compression artifacts that I mentioned earlier, but am doing some more comparisons before posting.

I have already calibrated with Avia.
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post #556 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 07:01 PM
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bkushner,

Do you see the problem on the red 'A' on the AVIA main menu, or other colorful menus?

If you are having a true problem I would get it fixed or replaced under warranty.

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post #557 of 2187 Old 03-13-2005, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vagabond
even though the new decoder is apparently a bit better the CUE can still rear it's ugly head. So although it's better in some situations it can still manifest itself.

Check out the info on Secrets here

Vagabond, can you be more specific? The link you provided was the entire Shootout database which takes a long time to load. If you were referring to the 59AVi review in the shootout, it says the traditional CUE problems are solved. As for the remaining CUE and Chroma ICP, that can not be what we are seeing in these cases. I suspect it is an old production problem or a display problem in these few isolated cases.

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post #558 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 03:00 AM
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I am looking at a 59AVi with a manufacture date of 4/04. In reviewing this thread - I assume it does not have the latest firmware.

1) Should I be concerned?

2) How would I get it updated?
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post #559 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AVfile
If you were referring to the 59AVi review in the shootout, it says the traditional CUE problems are solved. As for the remaining CUE and Chroma ICP, that can not be what we are seeing in these cases. I suspect it is an old production problem or a display problem in these few isolated cases.

Sorry for that, I thought it was only the actual review that was linked. Anyway here's a quote:

"The 59AVi does suffer from the same 3-2 alternating flag CUE problem found in the Denon DVD-2900/2200. This is readily apparent in Monsters, Inc. and results in a flickering in solid bands of color with some material."

Now to me this means that there are the odd situation where CUE can be seen.

I've attached a screenshot as well that indicates that not all is super well.

Please note this is not to slander the 59AVi in any way. It's a cracking machine but it's not the final DVD player. They all have their quirks, it's just a matter of if you can live with them or not.

Cheers
LL

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post #560 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 04:59 AM
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The ALT 3:2 flag issue is easily fixed... if you press DISLPAY twice and see that the '#' sign is flashing, just go into the video options and force Pure Cinema Mode to be ON.
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post #561 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 08:30 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by UMD_Terp
The ALT 3:2 flag issue is easily fixed... if you press DISLPAY twice and see that the '#' sign is flashing, just go into the video options and force Pure Cinema Mode to be ON.


Well, as I've understood the Pure Cinema mode should really be avoided. The Auto2 mode seems to be the preferred mode. Here's another quote from the review regarding Pure Cinema mode:

// Pure Cinema On is a forced Film mode and shouldn't be used at all. This mode failed a good majority of our tests and will result in the most artifacts if used for normal viewing.//

So I guess as always, you win some, you lose some...

Cheers

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post #562 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 08:59 AM
 
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"Explain how the first generation blu-ray player will make your existing collection of dvd's look better? Certainly blu-ray discs will look great, but I don't think regular dvd's will look much better (probably worse since the machines will be built to exploit the capabilities of blu-ray, not regular dvd) on a dv-59avi or even a 3910."


1) Until you see and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player in action you can't say they they are not going to do a good job of playing a SD DVD's.

2) I believe that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will play SD DVD's just fine, on par with most players available today. Today's SD DVD players, in my opinion,
have hit the ceiling, that is why there isn't much difference between a $200. player and one costing $3,500.

3) At least in the case of HD-DVD, the first player by Toshiba will cost $999.
The Denon 5910 is $3,500. I believe the Toshiba will be a superior piece of equipment over the 5910 or all existing 480P and "gimmicky" upscaling players.

4) The Toshiba is HD-DVD, folks who have purchased D-VHS players and tapes have already given testimony of how they blow SD DVD's away, but they are tapes, so the format was kind of still born.

If a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will make DVD's look the same as they are now, but have the ability to record and also offer true HD PQ at cheaper price than these souped of SD players, I think that's a big advantage over what we have now.
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post #563 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vagabond
Well, as I've understood the Pure Cinema mode should really be avoided. The Auto2 mode seems to be the preferred mode. Here's another quote from the review regarding Pure Cinema mode:

// Pure Cinema On is a forced Film mode and shouldn't be used at all. This mode failed a good majority of our tests and will result in the most artifacts if used for normal viewing.//

So I guess as always, you win some, you lose some...

Cheers

That's right... you shouldn't use it for movies that have the flags set correctly, but in the case in which you have a disc that is mastered as such, temporarily switching to force film mode is an easy fix... For everything else, AUTO2 is fine.
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post #564 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 10:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Auditor55
"Explain how the first generation blu-ray player will make your existing collection of dvd's look better? Certainly blu-ray discs will look great, but I don't think regular dvd's will look much better (probably worse since the machines will be built to exploit the capabilities of blu-ray, not regular dvd) on a dv-59avi or even a 3910."


1) Until you see and HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player in action you can't say they they are not going to do a good job of playing a SD DVD's.

2) I believe that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will play SD DVD's just fine, on par with most players available today. Today's SD DVD players, in my opinion,
have hit the ceiling, that is why there isn't much difference between a $200. player and one costing $3,500.

3) At least in the case of HD-DVD, the first player by Toshiba will cost $999.
The Denon 5910 is $3,500. I believe the Toshiba will be a superior piece of equipment over the 5910 or all existing 480P and "gimmicky" upscaling players.

4) The Toshiba is HD-DVD, folks who have purchased D-VHS players and tapes have already given testimony of how they blow SD DVD's away, but they are tapes, so the format was kind of still born.

If a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will make DVD's look the same as they are now, but have the ability to record and also offer true HD PQ at cheaper price than these souped of SD players, I think that's a big advantage over what we have now.

I remember getting a Toshiba SD-3006 in 1997 and it was certainly
not a great cd player by any means. In fact it was a rather dismal
redbook cd player. It was actually quite a while until a dvd player
came out that had decent audio capabilities.

My point is that if you are really in the market for a player that has
the abilities of the 3910 or the 59-avi (ie. universal player) I
don't suspect that the very first hd-dvd or blu-ray players will offer
performance of these machines today for existing formats. Certainly
the quality of hd-dvd will be better than the best superbit dvd
transfers currently available. However,look how far dvd playback
quality has evolved in both players and dvd transfers from 1997.

Now a 59avi with hd-dvd and/or blu-ray playback... that would be
something special.
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post #565 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 11:37 AM
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Last week I purchased a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi and I have to say I am as happy as can be. My decision was between the Denon 3910, Denon 2910 and the Pioneer DV-59AVi. This is why I picked the Pioneer:

1) I have many DVD players in my home, and the last DVD player hooked up to my main system (the Denon 3800) was problematic to say the least. The problems weren't earthshattering, but they were problems nonetheless. These problems included minor stuttering and stopping on video playback. Dropouts on certain DVD-Audio discs (of which I own a lot), which were also seen at the exact same points on the same discs on my friends Denon 3800. Lastly, the drawer started to close by itself over the past few weeks - so that was the last straw. It was out of warranty, but only 1 3/4 years old.

2) I read as many web forums as I could, this one being the premier web forum. My reading told me that the Pioneer was probably less problematic than either Denon. After having a problematic $1200 player from Denon (3800), I was considering Denon but would rather purchase a brand that would have better quality control.

3) I found that the Denon 3910 has it's issues depending on build date, so I wanted to stay away for the price ($1300).

4) I also found the Denon 2910 could have issues also, so I was gun shy after my previous Denon experiences.

5) I could get the Pioneer for a good price (I think - $1150), with a fairly new build date and the latest firmware.

6) I wanted a new HDMI capable DVD player to go along with my new HDMI capable HDTV.

7) A review I came across in a few month old Stereophile AV Guide to Home Theater magazine gave the Pioneer a stellar review, saying it bested the Denon 5900 in almost all respects.

I picked the Pioneer, and after 1 week of watching movies via HDMI at 1080i (setting everything up as indicated in this owners thread), and listening to DVD-Audio discs (which sound great on this player) I am a happy camper.

I also checked out the Pioneer's ability to do SACD, and it was darn good.. but I have 3 other SACD players in my home, one being the Sony XA777ES, so I really have no use for SACD via the Pioneer.
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post #566 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 11:55 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Auditor55
2) I believe that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will play SD DVD's just fine, on par with most players available today.

You already stated that current players aren't good enough for you, including two world-class machines (3910 and 59AVi), so there goes that argument

Given that you cannot tolerate the 3910, I don't think you will be happy with a $200 player, even in the short-term.

Quote:


Today's SD DVD players, in my opinion,
have hit the ceiling, that is why there isn't much difference between a $200. player and one costing $3,500.

That is simply a rediculous statement. There was a huge difference in my $2000 Sony 9000ES compared to every other player I've tried between $100 and $5000, and it's quite dated now. I bought that years ago and never regretted it. In fact I got to enjoy great video and great SACD for 4 years while the "wait for it" people were waiting for the perfect player to come along for $200. Now they are still waiting apparently.

If they really have hit the ceiling then wouldn't now be the optimal time to buy a good one?

Quote:


3) At least in the case of HD-DVD, the first player by Toshiba will cost $999.
The Denon 5910 is $3,500. I believe the Toshiba will be a superior piece of equipment over the 5910 or all existing 480P and "gimmicky" upscaling players.

What?! It took almost 8 years of evolving to get DVD video and audio technology to the 5910 level. The fact that one can make SD look great on a 90" screen is amazing to me. What makes you think the 1st generation HD players won't have serious issues? It's going to be almost like starting all over again (new compression formats, bugs, buggy titles, format wars, etc). They probably won't even be universal players to begin with. Just how much longer are you willing to wait?

Quote:


4) The Toshiba is HD-DVD, folks who have purchased D-VHS players and tapes have already given testimony of how they blow SD DVD's away, but they are tapes, so the format was kind of still born.

We're sure it will be great but let's not talk about software that doesn't exist yet. There are plenty of players out there with great picture and sound right now, capable of playing every disc released to date. I've got my HDTV on cable which is nice, but I'd rather watch a DVD of something I actually WANT to see. It doesn't perform so bad in comparison either, sometimes better!

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If a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will make DVD's look the same as they are now, but have the ability to record and also offer true HD PQ at cheaper price than these souped of SD players, I think that's a big advantage over what we have now.

I think an inexpensive HD player would make a nice complement, eventually, to a system already containing a world-class universal player bought today. You could buy an economical digital "transport only" unit knowing you've already got great audio and SD covered. Finding one that does everything to your satisfaction will probably be difficult, especially for the first couple years, not to mention expensive. But for now you can benefit from years of audio and video refinement, product maturity and a vast library.

I know you're thinking HD players will inherit this and just pick up where DVD left off. Hopefully it will get off to a better start than DVD did. But remember when DVD first came out people were amazed by the picture but said LD and CD players had better sound (some still do) - even though they could easily share the same audio technology!

I double dare you to buy the first cheapie Toshiba HD-DVD player that comes out. I bet you will be the first to say "This sucks, my Apex was better" or "I'm waiting for _______". There will always be hi-end machines and low-end machines. Pay now and enjoy, or pay later.

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post #567 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by calpaugh
I remember getting a Toshiba SD-3006 in 1997 and it was certainly
not a great cd player by any means. In fact it was a rather dismal
redbook cd player. It was actually quite a while until a dvd player
came out that had decent audio capabilities.

Not to mention: No component out, no DTS out (LD and CD did!), would not pass BTB, would not play The Matrix, etc.


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My point is that if you are really in the market for a player that has
the abilities of the 3910 or the 59-avi (ie. universal player) I
don't suspect that the very first hd-dvd or blu-ray players will offer
performance of these machines today for existing formats. Certainly
the quality of hd-dvd will be better than the best superbit dvd
transfers currently available. However,look how far dvd playback
quality has evolved in both players and dvd transfers from 1997.

Yes, and I just took too long trying to say the same thing


Quote:


Now a 59avi with hd-dvd and/or blu-ray playback... that would be
something special.

And I can gaurantee you it would NOT be any cheaper!

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post #568 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 01:40 PM
 
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"You already stated that current players aren't good enough for you, including two world-class machines (3910 and 59AVi), so there goes that argument

Given that you cannot tolerate the 3910, I don't think you will be happy with a $200 player, even in the short-term."

I never said that the 3910 is not good enough for me, it just have some issues, green push through DVI, can't pass btb on build dates beyond 08/04.

Its seem I can get a 59avi for the same price I paid for the 3910. I'm willing to try the 59avi, but I'm concerned about CUE problems and the inability to pass btb through HDMI to DVI adapter cable. Anyone care to discuss those issues.

BTW, I checked out a 59avi connected to Pioneer Elite 50" Plasma via HDMI and I didn't see any green push, but again, the overall picture didn't strike as having a better picture than the 3910.

I'm really trying to find out which player has fewer issues.
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post #569 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 01:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Auditor55
Its seem I can get a 59avi for the same price I paid for the 3910. I'm willing to try the 59avi, but I'm concerned about CUE problems and the inability to pass btb through HDMI to DVI adapter cable. Anyone care to discuss those issues.

I can help you with at least one of them.

I have a DVI display and have used a HDMI to DVI cable and now am using a DVI cable with HDMI->DVI adaptor; in both cases; not a problem. It is working fine. No problems with BTB either (I had to increase the brightness setting on the player by 1 step; but this is more due to the limitation of my display).

Regarding CUE, never noticed it....not yet anyway....

Quote:


Originally posted by Auditor55
I'm really trying to find out which player has fewer issues. [/b]

After 6 months of long research and trying everything out there, I selected Pioneer (see my previous posts and a link to the Australian forum for my saga with various other players).

I really think Pioneer is the most reliable machine out there, with fewer issues than most....

Go with it and enjoy......you won't regret it....

Ritesh
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post #570 of 2187 Old 03-14-2005, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Auditor55
I'm willing to try the 59avi, but I'm concerned about CUE problems and the inability to pass btb through HDMI to DVI adapter cable. Anyone care to discuss those issues.


I am also using a HDMI-DVI adapter and have no problems at all with my 59avi passing BTB.

In MY personal A/B comparison between the 59avi and Denon 3910 it was pretty clear which unit had the better overall picture quality......and you know which unit I own.
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