Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2187 Old 03-18-2005, 06:10 AM
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ritesh,
Think of it as a rounding error in your digital display.

When you raise black levels in the display above the proper calibrated level, what you are telling the display to do is to make "black" something lighter than black -- a very, very dark gray. But the display only has a fixed set of steps it can use for each primary color of each pixel. So the electronics attempts to follow your instructions by turning on one or two primary colors (by one step only) in widely scattered pixels.

This "speckle pattern" of widely scattered, motionless pixels which are barely turned on in a nearly regular pattern (usually green or purple) in what should be large areas of "black", looks a lot like noise or interference but it is not, and will not go away by changing cables or any such effort. The TV is just trying to follow your improper instructions on black levels.

Use the appearance of this speckle pattern in a digital display as yet another upper limit for how high you can crank up black levels on your display and be sure that you leave black levels set low enough so that the speckle pattern does NOT appear in large areas of what should be "black".

Note that if you mis-adjust blacks so that the speckle pattern appears, the speckles themselves may be hard to see from a distance. But don't fool yourself into thinking it is OK to leave them there, as the "rounding error" will also appear in other brighter colors as well -- causing white spots in bright colors for example that are much more noticeable.
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post #632 of 2187 Old 03-18-2005, 11:20 AM
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FYI: According to Gefen, their current 2x1 DVI switcher is fully HDCP compliant (not a pass through which is why I couldn't get my DV-59AVi to work with my older Gefen 2x1 DVI switcher). Their 2x1 HDMI switcher has always been fully HDCP compliant; not a pass through.

For any who have been following my saga, this means that instead of buying the switcher, cables and adaptors I bought, all I had to do was get a new Gefen 2x1 DVI switcher.
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post #633 of 2187 Old 03-18-2005, 02:57 PM
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Thanks Bob and radarblip regarding very concise and helpful explanations ....

Really appreciate it,

cheers,

Ritesh
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post #634 of 2187 Old 03-18-2005, 09:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by UMD_Terp
have you tried the component input on the set to see how that looks as well? That very well may look the best for you in the end given all this.

I did give the component hook up a try. Actually looked very good set at 480i. On 480p the image looked too soft (fuzzy) as with the 480p on hdmi.
Am going to do a little more tweaking on hdmi before settling on component, though that is where I may end up with this. Though I think this is a great dvd player, it will be interesting if I finally end up on component set at 480i.
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post #635 of 2187 Old 03-18-2005, 09:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bob Pariseau
ahab,
As I recall, there's some massive FAQ information on tweaking the Sony TVs over on the appropriate display forum here -- getting into the service menu and such. Whether you feel like making such changes or not, reading that info may give you a better handle on what your TV does differently at 480 resolution.
--Bob

Yes, I have been perusing that thread. Afraid a lot of it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I really don't think, given my level of knowledge at this point, that it would be wise for me to try making adjustments on the service menu. Would rather spend my time trying to find a good professional calibrator and have him come in and make the adjustments.

Not really complaining here about the player or tv, guess I'm just trying to get the best picture I can out of my setup. Though sometimes I think I'm worrying too much about that rather than spending time enoying my dvd viewing.
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post #636 of 2187 Old 03-19-2005, 01:27 PM
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Just got this player and Im in the video adjust menu but the professional setting is not available to me as I scroll through, what is available is enhanced,direct.natural, and the memory 1,2,3 Im assuming professional is one of the preferred settings how can I find this setting?
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post #637 of 2187 Old 03-19-2005, 01:38 PM
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If hooked up via hdmi there is no 'professional' setting. See p. 60 of the manual for complete info.
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post #638 of 2187 Old 03-19-2005, 01:39 PM
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There are different named settings for analog Component video output and for digital HDMI video output. The ones you are seeing are for the digital HDMI connection, and the one you want is HDMI Direct mode.

If you disconnect the HDMI cable so as to use Component cables, then you will see the other set of choices -- and the one you want in that case is Professional.
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post #639 of 2187 Old 03-19-2005, 05:05 PM
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Hi everyone. I've been watching this thread for the last few months and have found it very positive re. the 59avi. I've got a demo home for a test drive this weekend.

Any sugesstions for the initial setup for my test drive. I have it hooked up to a Sony HS20 via HDMI & component cables. The audio is connected to a Rotel 1068 (both digital / analog). My old player was the Pioneer 563, so this is a significant upgrade.

I've just set it up and have A/Bed using the component cables between the 563 and 59 and watching Gladiator. My initial observations are:
- the 59 was much more detailed, especially in the coliseum scences with the background crowd / scenery.
- the 59 appears a little washed out but maybe the 563 is just too dark and the colours over saturated. I'll see how it seems after watching it a bit more.
- I tried the HDMI at 720p and the colours were a bit richer but the focus was a little softer.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions regarding setup (I have the player till Monday AM) I'd appreciate it.

Don
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post #640 of 2187 Old 03-20-2005, 01:50 PM
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Very informative thread - purchased an open box unit at my local AV store for just over 50% of list. Had seen some on Ebay for about the same price, but wanted the warranty. Denon 1600 will be headed for Ebay soon.

Unit was manufactured in July - Region: 1 / Ver: 1.506(16) / AV1: 2.0/2.8

Connected to Pioneer Pro 920 via monster HDMI. Have set up video via the various comments Bob and others have provided on thread - Auto 2, 16:9 compressed.... Will be getting Avia out later today.

My question is about DVD audio - I have the DVD connected to my Yamaha 795a via optical out. The Yamaha does Dolby / DTS processing. The instruction manual indicates I should connect via analog cables? R/L/Surround R/Surround L/Center/Sub. What am I missing by using the digital connection? The Yamaha does have these inputs for an external decoder - which is what I guess I would be using from the 59Avi. How are you making this connection with your receivers?

Very nice Player - thanks for all of your input.
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post #641 of 2187 Old 03-20-2005, 02:08 PM
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The traditional optical and coax digital audio outputs of any of these universal players, and the corresponding digital audio inputs on the A/V receivers or pre-amp/audio-processors, are unable to carry the high bandwidth digital signals used by the exotic audio formats -- DVD-Audio and SACD. I.e., those connections are limited to the digital signal bandwidths used by normal CDs and the multi-channel audio of regular video DVDs. There are some cases where you can get down-converted audio out of those connectors, but usually you will get nothing.

You have two options with the Pioneer 59avi. Either use the stereo or multi-channel ANALOG audio output connections -- in which case the 59avi will decode the digital audio data for you -- or pass high bandwidth, stereo or multi-channel digital audio to your receiver via the IEEE1394 (I-link or "firewire") connector. Of course in the that case you will need to use a receiver or pre/pro that has an I-link input and is able to decode DVD-Audio and SACD.

If you connect I-link to your receiver or pre/pro, you can use that connection for ALL audio formats from the 59avi -- it's a one cable audio solution. The audio DACs in the receiver will do all the work.

If you connect multi-channel analog audio to your receiver or pre/pro, you can also use that for all audio formats -- in which case the 59avi does the decoding and your receiver likely only does volume control ( but note that some receivers and pre/pros offer the option of doing processing on incoming analog audio signals), or you can ALSO connect the optical or coax digital audio and use that for normal CDs and DVDs -- in which case the receiver does the work for those formats.

Besides decoding and converting the digital data to analog for your speakers, the other types of processing your receiver might provide include volume matching for the different speakers, steering bass from the normal speaker channels to your subwoofer, correcting for the time delays inherent in the different distances between speakers and your ears, and room equalization. If you have the 59avi do the work and send out analog audio, it offers a fairly limited set of those features. If you use I-link, of course, those features in the 59avi are bypassed and it is up to the receiver or pre/pro to do that stuff.
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post #642 of 2187 Old 03-20-2005, 02:19 PM
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Hopefully you have calibrated with Avia or some other video cal disc...

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

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post #643 of 2187 Old 03-20-2005, 04:07 PM
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Thanks Bob - I do not believe the Yamaha will accept I-Link. Will stick with Digital, as I do like the Yamaha sound fields.

Kevin - getting out the Avia disc tonight. While DVD looked very good right out of the box, hoping for some PQ improvement after calibration.
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post #644 of 2187 Old 03-21-2005, 10:24 AM
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Is anyone else using this player in conjunction with a Karman Kardon 7300? I have a specific question.

Thanks,
James
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post #645 of 2187 Old 03-21-2005, 08:36 PM
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Anyone have problems reading certain DVDs? For some reason, I'm getting (for lack of better word) stuttering, or what it appears to be pixelation. I thought it was a bad disc that I rented, but its happened a few times now, and yeah, even though the rental disc does looked a little scratched, when I play it on my crappy old 4 year old Sony, it plays OK.

BTW, it WAS a floor model, but I was told it had very little time on it -- how do I check the life of the player (hours played)?

Even though its a floor model, I can take it back still, so I was wondering if I may have a bum part or if I should take it back and exchange it for something else.

Thanks!
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post #646 of 2187 Old 03-22-2005, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by phatboykim
Anyone have problems reading certain DVDs? For some reason, I'm getting (for lack of better word) stuttering, or what it appears to be pixelation. I thought it was a bad disc that I rented, but its happened a few times now, and yeah, even though the rental disc does looked a little scratched, when I play it on my crappy old 4 year old Sony, it plays OK.

BTW, it WAS a floor model, but I was told it had very little time on it -- how do I check the life of the player (hours played)?

Even though its a floor model, I can take it back still, so I was wondering if I may have a bum part or if I should take it back and exchange it for something else.

Thanks!

I have played all sorts of DVDs on my DV-59AVi with no playback problems. Actually some that were touchy on other players work like a charm on it. You really should consider taking it back ASAP!
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post #647 of 2187 Old 03-22-2005, 02:41 PM
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The Gefen HDMI switcher is HDCP compatible. This config. works:
DV-59AVi HDMI out into HDMI in on Gefen. HDMI to DVI adaptor on Gefen out going via DVI cable into IF 7210 M1-DA input w/DVI to M1-DA adaptor. DV-59AVi display says DVI.

When I get the adaptor, this will be replaced by HDMI out from Gefen, HDMI cable, going into HDMI to M1-DA adaptor into 7210. Wonder if display will say DVI or HDMI?
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post #648 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 01:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dixi
doctorG4, I too had a similar problem with my Pio 868 which is connected to a Sony FQ80 TV (CRT) via an Ixos 811 Scartcable (RGB).

On some DVDs, eg The Manchurian Candidate (1962) and Monsters Inc, the subtitles had a somewhat blurred, whiteish background which also was stretched over the lower part of the picture. On Manchurian, dark scenes also got somewhat green.

Luckily, I found a (very) easy way of getting rid of this problem and it has not appeared since:

On your 868, select the following: Home Menu (on the remote) - Initial settings - Video output - Component out - Progressive (NOT Interlaced!)

Don't ask me why it worked but it does. Give it a try (if you haven't)!

dixi,

(what you describe is _exactly_ the artifact I get, boosting the contrast up will in fact show that the white strips becomes a greenish/whitish tint in the whole part of the screen below the offending title)

thanks for the tip. I will give it (yet another) try.

In meanwhile I contacted Pioneer Germany who stated :

1) that they think it is an incompatibility between TV and DVD (up to here nothing new)

2) they think it is triggered by Macrovision (I do not have an opinion about this, what I can say is that it appears in most DVD with subtitle enabled or writing exibiting contrast with background) Recently I noticed a strong effect as well in the menu of DVE which should not be MV protected)

3) They say that exchanging the unit will probably not bring any improvement. :-(

4) they offered to modify the capacitor at the output of RGB to make it more stable. :-)

so I sent in the Pioneer 868 and got it back "modified". Unfortunately exactly the same
defect is there. :-(

I will now do the following:

a) try the trick you suggest.(I think it is already non progressive but....)
b) play with the back level etc.

Here I have a question to Bob (Pariseau):

I have a proble defining the practical sequence how to calibrate the display. Normally I would leave the source (the Pioneer) in the default value and then use AVIA/DVE to adjust the TV settings. If I have simultaneously to modify TV AND DVD it becomes less clear what is the best order in which to do it. Furthermore the presence of Black setup complicates further the process.

Should start with DVD default, adjust the TV then go back to the DVD and ....???
Should I leave Black setup to 0 (as it normally is in PAL countries) and play with the black and white level on the Pioneer or first try setting to IRE 7.5 and then play with black and white ??
If I try both (plus the TV to make it look good) I get infinite number of combinations!

Thanks for any advice you can provide me.
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post #649 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 11:59 AM
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I imagine that this is true in general but I have managed to find this player in the 800.00 range at non authorized dealers but at authorized dealers it is 1300.00... Whats the best way to buy one of these?
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post #650 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cmartyn
I imagine that this is true in general but I have managed to find this player in the 800.00 range at non authorized dealers but at authorized dealers it is 1300.00... Whats the best way to buy one of these?

check your PMs...
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post #651 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 01:06 PM
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I bought mine from an authorized dealer well under $1K.

Don't buy unauthorized unless you like spinning the wheel to save $100

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #652 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 01:17 PM
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Somebody please PM me about an authorized dealer with a sub-$1K price. I'm in North Carolina and Tweeter is my only local option at $1300.

Thanks.
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post #653 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 02:48 PM
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Yes, 1300 is like an unreal price it seams but the more I read about this player the more I like it, even at 1300.

Thanks for that PM by the way!

One question. I have a Sony 4:3 HDTV TV. My Sony player was set to Wide Screen. 4:3 material appeared full screen and 16:9 material appeared letter boxed. There was no pillowboxing. Will the Pioneer work the same way? By reading this thread, it looks like it will pillowbox it through the HDMI. That would suck. I try and get 4:3 versions of DVD's whenever I can because most directors dont have a clue how to use a widescreen lense anyhow.
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post #654 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 03:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by KramerTC
Somebody please PM me about an authorized dealer with a sub-$1K price. I'm in North Carolina and Tweeter is my only local option at $1300.

Thanks.

I bought mine for under $1000 at a authorized dealer here in N Cal.

Tell the guy at Tweeter you will pay $950-975 for it and to go see the manager.
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post #655 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 04:01 PM
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Thanks for the PMs guys.

I did not know you could ask for a price reduction at Tweeter. I'll try it this weekend. If it doesn't work I'll use the sources provided on the PMs.
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post #656 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 06:49 PM
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ABT has it for 999
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post #657 of 2187 Old 03-24-2005, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by KramerTC
Thanks for the PMs guys.

I did not know you could ask for a price reduction at Tweeter. I'll try it this weekend. If it doesn't work I'll use the sources provided on the PMs.

It's surprising how many people don't realize this.

You can attempt to "deal" with the salesmen at The Good Guys as well.
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post #658 of 2187 Old 03-25-2005, 04:34 AM
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Just thought Id check in with you fellows..

My 59avi continues to do a flawless job, so much so that I have abandoned the "dvd" forum boards lately..so I thought Id come by and say hi
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post #659 of 2187 Old 03-25-2005, 05:10 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by psujohny
Just thought Id check in with you fellows..

My 59avi continues to do a flawless job, so much so that I have abandoned the "dvd" forum boards lately..so I thought Id come by and say hi

hehehe... I must agree that it is a great player. Absolutely no complaints from me at all. I watched The Day After Tomorrow yesterday on it and everything was flawless... dark scenes, bright scenes, no macrblocking, color issues, etc... at all.
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post #660 of 2187 Old 03-25-2005, 09:35 AM
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I just bought a 59avi from HIPPO'S AUDIO VIDEO.COM, an authorized dealer, for a total price of slightly over $900. Shipping from NY to CA took one week. Hippo's double-boxed the unit, and shipped it via UPS within a few hours of my phone order.
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