Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by thebland
I am curious here....am I the only one, or are there others that do all of their projector source (DVD) calibrations via the projector's adjustments and then store each source to the projector's memory. Essentially leaving the DVD player settings at their default.

BTW- -when HDMI 'direct' is chosen, is there a way to make adjustments to the video (e.g. contrast, brightness, IR, etc.).

All i change on the pioneer is the purecinema setting, the IRE setting , and the HDMI color level setting. I dont have memories in my projector but i do have them in the Lumagen (which actually has memories within memories so you can have different memories per input - i.e. a 'sports' mode for HDTV and a 'movie' mode)so I calibrate my projector to DVD, and then tweak all the other inputs accordingly. I do this only becuase it is suggested in the lumagen manual, not sure what benefit it has.

John
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post #182 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 04:55 AM
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Just picked up a 59avi yesterday and have a couple of questions.

I cant seem to get the video to work on my dvd-audio discs ? ( video works for everything else ) but when I put in a dvd-audio disc the display on the 59avi says menu ..but it seems no matter what button I push I still dont get any video ..

Secondly, I assume there isnt a little light that lights up when you have a sacd disc in ( to verify that you are indeed playing the sacd portion of the disc ) ..and the same for dvd-audio ..So my question is, how can you be sure that your playing the sacd portion of say an sacd hybrid disc ? ( that also has a redbook version on it to ) ....same question on dvd-audio ..

Thirdly, I guess there isnt a way to flip from 5.1 audio to 2 channel stereo on the fly from the remote ? ..You have to go into the settings menu every time you wanna change this ? ..

When settings are on 5.1 audio in main menu , will this downmix the audio track and send a stereo signal out the seperate analog l/r stereo outs of the 59avi ( Im not talking about the l/r outs of the 5.1 outs)
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post #183 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 06:24 AM
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thebland.

My D-ILA was calibrated by Phelps, and strangely, everything is at "0" even in my projector menu, when I send 480p to the IScan over HDMI. So I use HDMI direct, I change Auto1 to Auto2, 0IRE, and that's all.

I don't know what Phelps was using to calibrate my D-ILA, but after using AVIA and DVE, everything is perfect with "0" everywhere in my projector menu.

The 59avi is the 1st player I have tried (and I did try ALOT of players!) behaving like that.

The D-ILA remembers the different settings for all my dfferent inputs.
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post #184 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by psujohny
Just picked up a 59avi yesterday and have a couple of questions.


psujohny,

What happened to the Sony 999ES? How does the audio of the 59 compare to the Sony?
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post #185 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 08:06 AM
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psujohny,
What happened to the Sony 999ES? How does the audio of the 59 compare to the Sony?

I saw an excellant deal for a slightly used 59avi for 650.00 and I just couldnt pass it up., After selling the 999es There was only around a 200.00 difference between the two.

I havent had it long enough to comment on the audio or picture. Im just in the process of getting the initial settings correct.

It isnt quite as heavy as the 999es and I can already say that I like the interface/navigation on the 999es a little better. From my brief first listening session, initial thoughts (and this may change) is that it's audio capabilities may not be quite up to the level of the 999es..I really need to spend some time with it first however..(but sometimes your very first initial impressions are correct)
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post #186 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 08:39 AM
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psujohny,
As regards playing video from a DVD-Audio disc, check out DVD Playback Mode on page 73 of the instruction manual and see if this does it for you. Also note that this resets to Audio playback whenever you change discs.

I believe there may also be a restriction in seeing menus over an HDMI video connection if the DVD-Audio disc is copy protected, but I'm not sure of that.

------------------------------------------------

I don't know of any indicator to show the system has recogized an SACD disc, nor any button to switch between 5.1 and 2 channel playback for DVD-Audio or SACD -- although you might find the Audio button on the remote is enabled for that on some discs.

-----------------------------------------------

When set to 5.1 output, the stereo output jacks yield the same signal as the Front L/R jacks of the 5.1 output. I.e., there is no downmixing for them. See the note on page 76 of the instruction manual.
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post #187 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by psujohny
I saw an excellant deal for a slightly used 59avi for 650.00 and I just couldnt pass it up., After selling the 999es There was only around a 200.00 difference between the two.

I havent had it long enough to comment on the audio or picture. Im just in the process of getting the initial settings correct.

It isnt quite as heavy as the 999es and I can already say that I like the interface/navigation on the 999es a little better. From my brief first listening session, initial thoughts (and this may change) is that it's audio capabilities may not be quite up to the level of the 999es..I really need to spend some time with it first however..(but sometimes your very first initial impressions are correct)

I think most people will be interested to hear about your stint with the 3910 compared to the 59avi. Audio and video.

Man you really do cycle throught these player. I am taking bets at 3:1 odds on how long you keep the 59avi
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post #188 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:02 AM
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Does an ISF calibration include all of these tweaks or adjustments to the DVD player as well as the TV? I'm wondering if I have to adjust my DVD player before the ISF calibration. I really don't want to go in there if it would be done in a couple of weeks anyway.

I see a great picture with my 59AVi but I'm far from a critical viewer, so my opinion does'nt say much.
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post #189 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:06 AM
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Is it possible to switch between 5.1 SACD/2 channel SACD/CD playback without changing the default setting?


Thanks.
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post #190 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:07 AM
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cissado,
It depends on the knowledge of the particular ISF tech you hire and what you are willing to pay for. The tech can calibrate the inputs on your display using his own signal generators, or he can do it through your source devices -- such as by putting calibration discs into your DVD player or by sending generated HDTV signals into your HDTV receiver -- or he can do both. Not all ISF techs are equally familiar with all displays and source devices, so when choosing a professional calibrator, have a discussion, find out what he has the experience and equipment to do, and find out what the various options will cost you.
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post #191 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:11 AM
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kk02,
I dug around in the manual a bit on this, and was unable to find anything hopeful as regards one button switching between 5.1 and 2-channel audio modes.

There IS a statement that the Audio button on the remote may be enabled to do something useful here depending upon the construction of each individual DVD-Audio disc, but I don't really have high hopes this will do it for you. There's no similar statement for SACD discs however.
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post #192 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:46 AM
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Bob,

I was able to switch between stereo/5.1 on a DVD-A. No such luck on a SACD....

Thanks,
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post #193 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 10:54 AM
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Thank you Bob. The ISF tech was highly regarded on here and I was lucky enough to live minutes from his location, so I got an appointment 1.5 months in advance, that was his earliest opening. Wow! lol Anyway, I need that to have my TV run for a little while before gettin it calibrated anyway.

I did make the appointment and he'll discuss the details with me at the time of service. Thanks again, I have confidence it will be a good experience as I see the AVIA disk alone makes a difference, so I expect this to be good as well. Thanks again Bob.
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post #194 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 06:32 PM
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Very much like to become owner of the 59avi. Can someone PM me on an authorized dealer with good price? Also, should I get from a reputable non-authorized dealer and add an extended warranty? Thanks a lot.
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post #195 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 06:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by almond
Very much like to become owner of the 59avi. Can someone PM me on an authorized dealer with good price? Also, should I get from a reputable non-authorized dealer and add an extended warranty? Thanks a lot.

Please do not order the 59AVi from non-authorized dealer even with the extended warranty, because Pioneer will not honor the warranty, and some of the extended warranty companies are a joke.
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post #196 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 07:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thebland
I have mine set to 'direct' on the 59 AVi - using HDMI output. IN that mode, there are few user adjustments (no auto 1, 2, etc.). Since the signal is sent 'unmodified' to the projector's HDMI input, all of the picture adjustments are made via the projector only.

Is there a reason, you guys prefer to tweak the DVD player AND projector?


Quote:


Originally posted by thebland
I am curious here....am I the only one, or are there others that do all of their projector source (DVD) calibrations via the projector's adjustments and then store each source to the projector's memory. Essentially leaving the DVD player settings at their default.



I guess having a new baby will make you forget questions you've previously asked in the same thread.



Stew

"The dream never dies, just the dreamer."

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post #197 of 2187 Old 01-27-2005, 07:27 PM
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Stew,
You wouldn't have to ask this if you had any concept of just how much sleep you can lose trying to calibrate a new baby....
--Bob

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post #198 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 04:49 AM
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I think most people will be interested to hear about your stint with the 3910 compared to the 59avi. Audio and video

The problem on the audio side is that I just bought new amplifiers ( two Cinenova Grands ).. and I was running the Denon 3910 and Sony 999es on my old amp's, so my observations could be skewed by this. I hate changing two pieces of gear at one time as you dont really know what attributes each has independently.

I did some two channel listening last night on the 59avi and was really concerned, as it sounded like total crap on sacd/dvd-audio ..I was freakin out about how bad it sounded ..Well, if anybody out there is listening in stereo mode, Please make sure and switch all the 59avi's initial setting to 2 channel when listening in stereol ! , even if you have 5.1 hooked up ..Because in stereo mode you do indeed only get the L/R out of a 5.1 mix. ..Anyway, much better now ..still have to put some more listening time under my belt before commenting.
I guess Ill just have to go into setup each time I wanna switch from two channel to 5.1.

Calibrated with avia/dve last night and everything passes ( btb wtw, no crushing, colors are correct, no y/c delay ) ..

I saved everything in memory one, and have it set to auto 2, 0 ire, normal and everything else at its default.

Would it be better to use the " direct mode" ? instead of memory one ..and if so, can you make the above settings in the direct mode ? ..When I set it to "direct" I cant seem to find out where to make these settings changes.
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post #199 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 07:06 AM
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psujohny,
You can't make any changes to the named sets of settings such as "HDMI Direct", but you CAN load the Direct settings into a Memory to see them and change them there if you want to. Use the first item in the list of setttings of, say, Memory 1, and specify "Direct" as the source for loading settings. Any changes you make will only affect that Memory, and not the default settings of Direct mode itself.

If you load in the Direct settings and compare to what you are currently using, I suspect you will find that using AUTO2 is the only difference.
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post #200 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 07:18 AM
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psujohny,
[These questions are for any other new readers as well!]

For the record, what's the firmware info from your new 59avi? To see this, go to Initial Settings, click on Options, and then hit Display on the remote. That will bring up the firmware numbers in the lower portion of the screen on your TV. Number strings with 306, 406, and 506 have been reported but we've yet to figure out what any of these actually fixed.

Also, are you connected HDMI to HDMI or HDMI to DVI? If HDMI to HDMI there are two items awaiting confirmation. We believe that with the 406 firmware, and apparently fixed in the 506 firmware, the front panel display will show "DVI" incorrectly instead of "HDMI" when briefly showing the resolution established on the digital connection.

We also believe that to use HDMI to HDMI at 480i (and ONLY for that resolution) you need to alter the HDMI Direct set of settings to Blacks of 7.5 IRE and to HDMI Color Adjust of Enhanced to get BOTH BTB and WTW data to pass correctly. We've had two reports that this is necessary for BTB, but only one of those posters was able to check WTW.
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post #201 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 07:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by psujohny
The problem on the audio side is that I just bought new amplifiers ( two Cinenova Grands ).. and I was running the Denon 3910 and Sony 999es on my old amp's, so my observations could be skewed by this. I hate changing two pieces of gear at one time as you dont really know what attributes each has independently.

I did some two channel listening last night on the 59avi and was really concerned, as it sounded like total crap on sacd/dvd-audio ..I was freakin out about how bad it sounded ..Well, if anybody out there is listening in stereo mode, Please make sure and switch all the 59avi's initial setting to 2 channel when listening in stereol ! , even if you have 5.1 hooked up ..Because in stereo mode you do indeed only get the L/R out of a 5.1 mix. ..Anyway, much better now ..still have to put some more listening time under my belt before commenting.
I guess Ill just have to go into setup each time I wanna switch from two channel to 5.1.

Calibrated with avia/dve last night and everything passes ( btb wtw, no crushing, colors are correct, no y/c delay ) ..

I saved everything in memory one, and have it set to auto 2, 0 ire, normal and everything else at its default.

Would it be better to use the " direct mode" ? instead of memory one ..and if so, can you make the above settings in the direct mode ? ..When I set it to "direct" I cant seem to find out where to make these settings changes.

Sounds like you have a very good wife that accepts the hobby. I pushed too hard in 2004. 6 dvd players, new speakers, Iscan HD,oodles of cables........and am hearing it now. Will wait a couple months to start on the new display.

The 5.1 vs 2 channel setup was one really cool feature about the 3910 that I miss that the 59avi lacks. It's not a big problem to work around though.
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post #202 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm a little confused re this 5.1 vs two channel issue??

What 2 channel source are you talking about? Hi Rez formats, or CD? I am guessing it is the latter.

What change needs to be made when listening to two channel in the Elites menu?

Almost all of my listening on the Elite has been with hi rez formats so far, so I havent noticed a problem with CD (obviously).
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post #203 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 07:53 AM
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Rob,
With DVD-Audio and SACD you usually have your choice of whether to listen to a 5.1 track or a 2 channel track, both at high bandwidth. SACD sometimes offers a third choice to listen to a CD quality 2 channel track.
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post #204 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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And with these options, you must go into the menu and change something on the Elites settings if you choose the 2 channel track?
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post #205 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 08:41 AM
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Rob,
Im talking about sacd and dvd-audio ..you should set 59avi's setting's to two channel if listening in stereo..I wonder how many people out there are listening to two channel with a 5.1 setting and dont even know it ...It loses center imaging for starters because the 5.1 mix is using a center, and who knows what other information is missing..Im not sure if this also would apply to redbook cd's or not.

Bob,
Im using hdmi to dvi ..I will check the firmware version anyway. I bet its the oldest firmware because its a Nov. 2003 build date on back. My worries/questions were that I thougt I would have a Y/C delay issue with the older firmware, but I checked the Y/C delay in Avia and unless Im looking at it wrong, I dont have any Y/C delay at all ( The zero setting has perfectly matched lines on the Y/C test ) Is there something Im missing here ?

Mimason,
I have conformed my habits to mesh with my wifes, and have made many consessions ...The one area where I have mantained control is big ticket purchases ..and also when we moved I told here she could do whatever she wanted with the whole entire house ..except for one room, which would be totally mine to do with what I wanted. Not even exagerating Ive owned over 40 amps now in the last 5 years, countless recievers/pre-pro's, dvd-players etc...and even several speaker and sub changes ..But I told her " I swear honey, Im just one piece away from being done " and she say's " Yea, I know thats bullsh*t"
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post #206 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


And with these options, you must go into the menu and change something on the Elites settings if you choose the 2 channel track?

Actually I was playing sacd disc's that dont have the option on the disc to switch from 5.1 to 2 channel ( sacd must be done at the player unlike dvd-audio ) ...As far as dvd-audio, Im not sure if changing it on the disc itself will suffice .. I will go home tonight and change the settings back to 5.1 on the player itself and then choose two channel on the dvd-audio disc to see if the same applies to dvd-audio as it does with sacd.
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post #207 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 09:00 AM
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psujohny,
OK, so the HDMI to HDMI tests are out. We need to get some more 59avi owners with HDMI displays! (grin!)

If it turns out you do have the 306 firmware and no Y/C Delay that would be a good data point as well. It's quite possible the Y/C Delay fix was simply a matter of better quality control during manufacture as opposed to a firmware fix anyway. In fact if you have the 306 firmware, it would be great if you could hook up Component connections long enough to double check Y/C delay on Component 480p as well since that's where Secrets actually noticed it. Use "Professional" mode on the 59avi -- which is the factory default set of settings for Component connections.

When checking the Y/C Delay chart in Avia, find the pattern in each column where the LEFT hand edges of the two strips match up most closely -- i.e, the edges furthest from the center of the screen. The pattern labeled "0" in the middle of each column represents perfection.

No real effort to get things calibrated should be necessary before checking this, but if you DO notice a problem, it would be best to double check the rest of the Component input calibration on your TV to make sure there's not some setting on the TV that's causing this (Y/C Delay problems can arise either in the source device OR in the display).
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post #208 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 09:17 AM
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When checking the Y/C Delay chart in Avia, find the pattern in each column where the LEFT hand edges of the two strips match up most closely -- i.e, the edges furthest from the center of the screen. The pattern labeled "0" in the middle of each column represents perfection.

Yea, this is the pattern I was trying to descibe, I did indeed check this and I have no y/c delay through hdmi to dvi ...When I get time I will check to see if this also applies to the component output ( dont currently have components hooked up)
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post #209 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Good info re the 5.1 vs two channel for SACD psujohny. I don't have any 2 channel SACD's yet, so I haven't noticed a problem.

Let us know what you find with regard to DVD-Audio.
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post #210 of 2187 Old 01-28-2005, 11:04 AM
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I don't have any 2 channel SACD's yet, so I haven't noticed a problem.

Keep in mind that most sacd discs have a two-channel track and a 5.1 track ..but in sacd's case...the player itself must be set to either two-channel or 5.1 ( unlike dvd-audio,where you can choose on the disc on screen which track you wanna use) ...Pop in one of your sacds that have both multi-channel and a stereo track and then listen to it in stereo with the 59avi's setting set to 5.1 and then switch the setting to two channel in the 59avi and see if you notice a major improvement.
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