Denon 5910 Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by joerod
...I, ROBOT on DVHS beats the dvd version on the 5910 HANDS DOWN!!!

This is where this promising, potentially informative thread went downhill. No relevance whatsoever....

But if someone wants to keep informing me about their experiences with the 5910 and it's relationship to other upscaling players I welcome it. Also please check my earlier specific questions here.

I ultimately just want a great player (5910 or otherwise) and to know what to look out for when my 5910 arrives. It is that type of discussion that uncovered the 5900 issues and why mine is headed back.

Thanks.
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post #92 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 12:37 PM
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coolstrategist

There are no underlying issues with the 5910 that I know of. I have found some quirks with the processing but they are not deficiencies but merely limitations and they can only be seen with certain test materials. I will talk more about those in the review, but they are nothing along the lines of something like the macroblocking issue.

I don't know what you mean by, "to know what to look for when my 5910 arrives" though. If you PM me specific questions I could probably help.

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post #93 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 12:44 PM
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Thanks Kris.

I will PM you when I have more specific questions from learning/reading/using. My statement was refering to any quirks that individual 5910 users may have seen thus far but you definitely answered my questions/concerns.

Plus I wanted to get this thread back on track!
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post #94 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 12:50 PM
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Is AL24 processing permanently enabled for audio 2CH and multi-channel, or can it be defeated?
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post #95 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 12:56 PM
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The picture quality on this unit continues to please. I have not found any quirks/problems either.

My initial feeling on the SACD performance being close to the Sony SCD-777ES has not panned out yet. Comparing the 2 directly last night it was obvious that the Sony was much better (smoother, better soundstaging, air, general realism) I should say that I tested the units through a Placette passive preamp. Since passives can be picky about source components the Sony may just be a better match. But I suspect the 5910 sound will improve after continued use. It is really too early to judge. I am still happy with it even if I decide to keep the Sony for 2-channel playback of SACDs. I still gained multichannel SACD/DVDA and the terrific video performance.
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post #96 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 01:00 PM
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zeropoint

I haven't seen any way to disable the AL24 processing. I assume it is just part of their audio circuitry that can't be avoided.
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post #97 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 02:01 PM
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As far as I know the AL24 processing can not be bypassed.

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post #98 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 02:09 PM
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Cheers Kris, bafx,

Anyone have a multi-region 5910? Otherwise, anyone know if it will be possible to MR?
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post #99 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 02:41 PM
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Why do you want to disable the AL24 Processing? Never heard anuone wanting to do this is why i ask. Kris would it be good if it was?
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post #100 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 02:52 PM
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kevinca1,

I like the flexibility of having the option to switch it to decide which I prefer for particular material, and for compatibility with other equipment which may also apply over/up-sampling at various stages. Also, heard somewhere concerns about adverse affect of AL24 on audio - sound-stage I think - but this may be specific product related (may have been a receiver.)
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post #101 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kevinca1
Why do you want to disable the AL24 Processing? Never heard anuone wanting to do this is why i ask. Kris would it be good if it was?

Would it be good? I don't know. I don't think it would hurt it depending on how you handled the signal afterwords. I don't think the AL24 processing applies to the digital output when you play CDs though. My Anthem D1 will tell you the specifics about an incoming digital signal and when I playback a CD is still says 16/44.1 so it obvioiusly isn't upsampling to 24 bits via digital. The difference in sound between the 5910 and the Anthem D1 is very slight though with CDs. I like the Anthem a tad bit more for the low end and imaging. But I doubt most people would even notice a difference.

The difference between the two with movie soundtracks is huge though. The D1 sounds FAR better then the analog outs of the 5910 with DD and DTS. And we're talking on every level.

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post #102 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 03:19 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kris Deering

The difference between the two with movie soundtracks is huge though. The D1 sounds FAR better then the analog outs of the 5910 with DD and DTS. And we're talking on every level.

I don't like the sound of that!

What about with digital outs?

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post #103 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 03:24 PM
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Ok Kris you got me a little confuesd, are you saying the digital is better then the anolog outs from the 5910? If so what about using denon link like i am with the 3910 and 3805.
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post #104 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 03:25 PM
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I don't recall reading anywhere which DSP(s) are used in the 5910, for AL24, DD, DTS, etc. Are they the same as for the 5900?
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post #105 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 03:32 PM
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Ah, just answered my own question on Canadian site: 'Analog Devices Melody 100 'HammerHead' processors (DSD signals are converted to PCM)'
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post #106 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 04:26 PM
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For what it is worth, I am also using the digital out for standard redbook playback and DD/DTS through my Arcam AV8. The Arcam does a beautiful job with digital signals, the best D/A conversion I have had in my system. I enjoy redbook cds more than ever since the AV8 entered my system. The 5910 did make a considerable improvement as a cd transport compared to my previous EAD Theatermaster DVD player. To be fair, I haven't done a direct comparison of the 5910's redbook and DTS/DD playback though.
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post #107 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Kris Deering
So exactly who else should I be advocating right now. If you want to hear that your player is the best out there, there are plenty of other reviewers and publications that will pretty much tell you that regardless of what you have. I think people look to me to find out exactly what player does what on the video side.

This is a great question to ask since on one hand you must remain agnostic to retain your objectivity while testing yet on the other hand you get bombarded with questions for recommendations, etc. I think if the DVD player shootout reports contained information on any given players performance on "good" DVD material instead of just how they performed with "bad" DVD material, you might not get as much flack as you do. Or maybe it wouldn't change any for you and simply not recommending any brands would be the best "out" for you.

I feel your pain and appreciate your efforts. I certainly don't consider you a Denon "fanboy" or anything but at the same time I think people tend to read too much into the shootout reports resulting in so "fanboy-ism". I just wonder how the tides would turn of some other brand scored higher than Denon next time around.

In any event, I certainly hope you keep fighting the good fight and doing the best you can to remain objective in your testing. I know I wish I could try out some of these more expensive players so I can better understand some of the things you report on but maybe someday I'll be in a position to do so.

Peace...
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post #108 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 06:26 PM
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I'm, sorry if I don't chime with the proper politically correct responses but Kris has stated ;
#1 That the ESS+ decoder used is a sore point for him.
#2 He states that the white levels are off and he recommends adusting to-1.
#3 He recommends to add noise reduction to +1.
This does not sound like a $3500.00 player to me and believe me I was waiting to purchase it but based on the above how can anyone say it is the ultimate player?
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post #109 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 08:11 PM
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No-one is.

Maybe you should read the rest of what he has to say, including about much higher priced competition.

One tick corrections really don't seem to me to be that out of line.

I'm a little more concerned about his audio comments at this point.

If this thing puts out DVD video as good as it gets, and high end audio, and I don't need to add a bunch of on board processing, and more shiny black boxes to get it, I'm in.

I really like keeping it simple...One player for everything, one high end receiver, and my HD PVR/sat receiver, and I'm in tall cotton.

Cheers

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post #110 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 08:12 PM
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Speakers are good, too....

(And I'm building my own)

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post #111 of 1460 Old 02-15-2005, 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by DoctorO
Wow, this thread went waaaaayyy off topic overnight. Where is a moderator when you need one?

I appreciate the intent of your thread.

I'm sorry to see so many Denon haters visiting without the benefit of a pooper scooper.


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post #112 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 04:28 AM
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I'm definetly not a Denon hater and did read the full review.
It is still not the ultimate player due to the ESS mpeg decoder and a simple item like white level should be dead on for the price.
The truth is that the average forum reader will not be able to tell the difference between the 5910,3910,59avi etc. That is why HQV is going to release their test dvd to prove the product is better.
Without a test dvd you won't be able to see a difference.
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post #113 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 05:04 AM
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I'm sorry to see so many Denon haters visiting without the benefit of a pooper scooper.

You rang?

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Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #114 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by steviec
I'm definetly not a Denon hater and did read the full review.
It is still not the ultimate player due to the ESS mpeg decoder and a simple item like white level should be dead on for the price.
The truth is that the average forum reader will not be able to tell the difference between the 5910,3910,59avi etc. That is why HQV is going to release their test dvd to prove the product is better.
Without a test dvd you won't be able to see a difference.

Is this last statement true?

I am definitely an average guy with an average 62" DLP display. I won't have a projector or 100"+ screen for a while down the road. Your comment is why I asked the question earlier...should I dump my macroblocking 5900 for the 5910 for additional $1k or just return the 5900($1600 cash back from the retailer) and get a player (3910, Pio, Okyno) at much less cost since I "won't be able to see a difference"?

That is the million dollar question.
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post #115 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 07:57 AM
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If you are an 'average guy,' I doubt you'd have bought a 5900, let alone a 5910. The 'average guy' doesn't spend $1500, far less $3500. Most guys buy mainstream players, and few are even aware of such issues as CUE: many don't notice it until it's pointed out to them - then they can't ignore it.

If you're looking at a 5910, or 5900 even (or 3910, 59AVi, SP1000,..,) then I would expect you to be a discerning enthusiast, who is looking for the best affordable solution. One who has identified shortcomings/failings/flaws in 'lesser players,' and is looking for players that overcome/eliminate them.

You (one) shouldn't just buy the more expensive player because it is said to be better, unless you can see and appreciate the improvement, and consider it worthwhile. If you can't see the difference, or if it is of no significance to you, then you could save money and buy one that you find satisfactory, then deploy that money elsewhere.

I would suggest a demo disc is being produced, not to prove a difference exists for those who can't see it, but to conveniently highlight the key advantages obtained for those aware of common shortcomings.

There is a difference. One person will see it, another won't. One will care, another won't. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: you have to see it and compare it to your reference, to see if it produces a worthwhile improvement to you, that's worth the asking price.
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post #116 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 08:34 AM
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Cool,
Only you can answer your million dollar question. Demo the players. You may be just as happy with the Pio (cheapest you mention) for $2500ish less than the 5910. Audio concerns can only be addressed by hearing a player in _your_ system. Crutchfield sells Denons and they have a 30 return policy. You may have to find a local dealer for the others.

larry

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post #117 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 08:52 AM
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Steve you are what you say you are not. Just becuase you MAY have to adjust a player one click its a POS in your book. TELL ME ONE PLAYER THAT IS PERFECT NO MATTER COST. If i use your logic on tvs then they also are POS due to you have to adjust them. I can also use your logic on a 50,000 car does it never have to have oil changed does it never have to have to be ADJUSTED? you dont like it dont buy end of story.
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post #118 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 09:24 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by steviec
I'm, sorry if I don't chime with the proper politically correct responses but Kris has stated ;
#1 That the ESS+ decoder used is a sore point for him.
#2 He states that the white levels are off and he recommends adusting to-1.
#3 He recommends to add noise reduction to +1.
This does not sound like a $3500.00 player to me and believe me I was waiting to purchase it but based on the above how can anyone say it is the ultimate player?

#1. The ESS decoder is a sore spot because of the CUE issues. Luckily the Realta chroma processing masks the problem completely and doesn't seem to impact chroma resolution in either the vertical or horizantal directions. But I would still like to see Denon move on from it. Just a personal thing and one you will never even notice.

#2. The white level via DVI and HDMI is not set properly in the default setting. If you set the contrast level to -2 in the memory settings it is perfect. Just set it when you get the player and never touch it again. After you set it, use the displays settings to adjust contrast. ALSO, someone who bought one of these recently told me he did not have this issue so Denon may have addressed it in the firmware that is in production units now. I am not positive on this and I'm following up with Denon on it. They are sending me a completely new unit shortly that I am buying so I will verify it with that one and report it if it is true.

#3. You don't need to set the NR to +1. I was recommending this because the Realta's NR filter is incredible and this will make just about ALL MPEG noise evident on DVDs go completely away. If you get a player you should try it. Find a DVD that has obvious MPEG noise in the backgrounds and bring up the NR setting. While adjusting on the fly look at the noise on the screen, it disappears and it doesn't hurt the image at all. This is an added feature of the player that I recommend using, that is all.



As for the audio thing. What I meant by my comments was if I feed my Anthem a DD or DTS signal digitally from the Denon it sounds a lot better then just using the Denon for the DTS and DD decoding and feeding the Anthem via the analog outputs. I don't know a single person that uses their DVD player for the DTS and DD decoding and uses their processor or receiver as a pre-amp only. But I still wanted to compare the two. CD, SA-CD and DVD-A performance via the analog outputs is still excellent and I really don't have any complaints here at all. So my suggestion, use the digital outputs for DD or DTS, and use the analog outputs for the rest unless you like using the firewire or HDMI output for high rez and CD instead. I don't have those capabilities yet but I will when the upgrade for the D1 comes out.

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post #119 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by PooperScooper
You rang?

larry

I thought this might happen, but I did not mean to confuse the function with the celebrity.



However, I would 2nd the nomination if you would enjoy performing the function when necessary? How does AVS select moderators?

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post #120 of 1460 Old 02-16-2005, 01:50 PM
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Kris
I use a 6 channel preamp so the player has to do the dts and dd decoding. Is the 5910 bad at this or just not as good as the Anthem? Thanks.
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