Panasonic S77 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 754 Old 06-26-2005, 05:30 PM
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how's audio cd playback on the S77?

music is the best.
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post #92 of 754 Old 06-26-2005, 06:42 PM
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Nothru22: this is what I am using......

iMovie HD and Final Cut Pro HD:
"Edit High-Definition Video
Want to shoot with state-of-the art video cameras? The newest camcorders let you capture widescreen (16:9) high-definition (HDV 720p and 1080i) video, and iMovie HD lets you import it and edit it just like you do with DV. In fact, iMovie HD makes it easy to work with HDV. Edit and trim it. Add transitions and effects to it. Burn a high-quality DVD and show it on your widescreen home theater, watch it on your Mac, even post it on your .Mac home page for everyone to see."

Not really downmixing it, the TV and the DVD are reading a 720p and the picture is sure not a 480i other wise it would look horrible for the most part. The above 2 programs I am using and some pretty high end computer equipment, is it true HD, good question but it sure looks as good as PBS HD from my OTA Ant. that I am getting. But then again, I have the equipment to do this, so there is where the confusion could be. I would gladly send you a DVD and you could be the judge, so maybe I am jumping to conclusions thinking the S77 can actually playback stuff recorded in 720p or 1080i or even 480p. But I am sure this could make for another discussion on a different board. But this is just my opinion and I could just be wrong ;)

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/
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post #93 of 754 Old 06-26-2005, 08:15 PM
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The Panasonic S77 can only play 480i sources. It is upconverting them to 720p.
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post #94 of 754 Old 06-26-2005, 08:16 PM
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Well, thanks for the input. The picture quality still looks flipping amazing :)
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post #95 of 754 Old 06-26-2005, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman
Well, thanks for the input. The picture quality still looks flipping amazing :)
Because the source material was mastered in hi-def, it still looks good, even though it's been downconverted (and then upconverted again). Think of it this way...if you take a photo taken at 2560x1920 and shrink that down to 640x480, it'll still look good, even though you've discarded 3/4 of the image. However, if you take a photo that was 640x480 natively, and quadruple it to 2560x1920 you'll get a lot of artifacting. In reality, you're doing both, since you're shrinking it and the upscaling it, but the quality of the shrunken video is very high, so that leads to higher quality upconversions.
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post #96 of 754 Old 06-27-2005, 08:27 AM
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Bluescale: After some further investigation, the only real way to get a HD feed off of this type of material is by having a HD Burner in my computer, and I am sure the Movie studios don't want that happening ;) I guy on the Mac forum explained it also, thanks for the help understanding this better... Now where is my HD recorder :)

"The "HD" designation in the editing apps only means that they are capable of working with the (relatively) new HD tape formats. As soon as you burn any 'HD' footage to a DVD, you are going to be following the DVD specifications which are decidedly NOT High Definition...

After putting your newly burned DVD into an upconverting player, you are now trying to recreate information that got thrown away in the burning process...."
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post #97 of 754 Old 06-27-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman
Bluescale: After some further investigation, the only real way to get a HD feed off of this type of material is by having a HD Burner in my computer, and I am sure the Movie studios don't want that happening ;) I guy on the Mac forum explained it also, thanks for the help understanding this better... Now where is my HD recorder :)
Also, you would need a HD-DVD or Blu Ray player to actually play the DVD you created. We're not there yet, but it's all on the horizon...
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post #98 of 754 Old 06-28-2005, 08:16 PM
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I've had the s77 and the samsung 850 set up on my pe7700. The s77 does a much better job scaling the image. It is crisp and clear. I had some background artifact issues and the s77 took care of it. The 850 has a bit softer image probably because it is not as tightly scaled. The faces were not as clear.

The 850 is a good player and I liked it over my non scaling player, but given the choice the s77 would be mine.
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post #99 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 05:26 PM
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I just got my Panasonic s77, and so far I'm feeling quite disappointed. The macroblocking on my set is HORRIBLE! I have a Zenith DVB318 which is supposed to be at least as bad, if not worse, but it's not even close. I'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to properly calibrate it, but I don't think there are too many adjustments I can make that will reduce the MB that much.

It's possible what I'm seeing isn't MB but rather some other artifact (I've never noticed MB on my set before, so I can't say with 100% certainty), but whatever it is is bumming me out. If I can't adjust it out, the player will have to go back. Based on the rave reviews for this player, it makes no sense.
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post #100 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale
It's possible what I'm seeing isn't MB but rather some other artifact (I've never noticed MB on my set before, so I can't say with 100% certainty), but whatever it is is bumming me out. If I can't adjust it out, the player will have to go back. Based on the rave reviews for this player, it makes no sense.
The only thing I've seen with my player, so far, that wasn't very good was an interlaced DVD.
Every progressive disc I've put in there has been great.
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post #101 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 07:17 PM
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Doolittle, all DVD discs are encoded in interlaced, there is no such thing as a progressive DVD. There are flags built into DVD programming that say progressive or interlaced and I'm not sure what they do, but all DVDs are 480i in their source.
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post #102 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothru22
Doolittle, all DVD discs are encoded in interlaced, there is no such thing as a progressive DVD. There are flags built into DVD programming that say progressive or interlaced and I'm not sure what they do, but all DVDs are 480i in their source.
Don't even get me started on this.....

check out this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=552345

What you are saying is only somewhat true as the progressive frame is stored on the DVD only it is in two separate fields.

David
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post #103 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr150
jdawg131,
Get Blue Jeans cables (www.bluejeanscables.com).

You can't get better for the money. Very highly respected.
FYI, 25' Blue Jean audio cable cost $53, the same cable DIY can be made
for $13 {same wire, same RCA}.

If you want the Tech Flex option, they charge another $25 for that 25' cable.
If you buy Tech Flex by itself it's $7 for 25'.

Blue Jean 25' cable w/Tech Flex cost $78.
DIY version $20.

Catch 22. You need the tool to strip the coax and crimp the cable.

http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/diycable.htm



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #104 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale
I just got my Panasonic s77, and so far I'm feeling quite disappointed. The macroblocking on my set is HORRIBLE! I have a Zenith DVB318 which is supposed to be at least as bad, if not worse, but it's not even close. I'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to properly calibrate it, but I don't think there are too many adjustments I can make that will reduce the MB that much.

It's possible what I'm seeing isn't MB but rather some other artifact (I've never noticed MB on my set before, so I can't say with 100% certainty), but whatever it is is bumming me out. If I can't adjust it out, the player will have to go back. Based on the rave reviews for this player, it makes no sense.
Ditto. Where are you seeing this? For me, HDMI gives me static like appearance, like a high quality VHS. Component smooths this out, clear, but much much darker. Too dark from what I can see. But I actually found a whole bunch of new controls by accident (press the up and down buttons when pressing the brightness or contrast) and that made refining the picture much better.
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post #105 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 11:52 PM
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I have a S77 I'm about to return as I can't get blacker than black I think is what's it's called thru component in to my rptv. The tv has been priorly isf'ed to a rp91.
I tried using Avia to adjust the contrast and then the brightness, but in the brightness part, where there's black on one side/white the other and two grey passing bands in the black. You're supposed to adjust the brightness to where you the bands turn black. Nope.
Even w/ contrast turned all the way to -7 (grey whites then) and brightness turned all the way down, I could never achieve black.

Watching movies, the shadows are a dark grey. On the phone with Panasonic for an hr. today to no avail. Just about to send it back. The rp91 looked beautiful and was hoping for similar with the S77. I saw this thread and thought I'd ask here before sending it back and taking the 15% restocking fee.

Thanks
Chris
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post #106 of 754 Old 06-29-2005, 11:54 PM
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I noticed that the brightness level only goes one way -- up. Did you set the starting point in the setup menu to "darker" instead of lighter? A rather bizarre way of doing this but I figured I'd mention this other area that sets the threshold black level.
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post #107 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislee
I have a S77 I'm about to return as I can't get blacker than black I think is what's it's called thru component in to my rptv.
Chris,

If you're not getting blacker than black through component with this player, then something is very wrong. Either there are settings way off on the set or the player or it's defective. To get BTB over HDMI requires boosting the brightness, but over component, there should be no problem.

John
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post #108 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale
I just got my Panasonic s77, and so far I'm feeling quite disappointed. The macroblocking on my set is HORRIBLE!
I was surprised at how visible macroblocking was on my CRT. I've been using component 480p because of this. On my set, this is the best DVD player I have seen, and I have tried many.

General question to all: Is it possible that a cheap cable is enhancing the MB enhance?
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post #109 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothru22
Doolittle, all DVD discs are encoded in interlaced, there is no such thing as a progressive DVD. There are flags built into DVD programming that say progressive or interlaced and I'm not sure what they do, but all DVDs are 480i in their source.
You're right I should have said: "Every interlaced disc with flags that tell it to play as progressive I've put in there has been great." :P
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post #110 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 09:42 AM
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Ok then, let me ask, does an ISF'ed calibrated tv to the prior RP91 be the causative factor that I'm not able to get BTB?

Thanks again guys!
Chris
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post #111 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislee
Ok then, let me ask, does an ISF'ed calibrated tv to the prior RP91 be the causative factor that I'm not able to get BTB?

Thanks again guys!
Chris
Have you tried changing the brightness settings on the TV and the player? I'm not aware of any reason a calibrated set would not allow BTB from this player. Over component at 480p, the brightness of the S77 is in the same range as the many other players that I have tried.
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post #112 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 10:19 AM
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No JPCO, only the settings on the player as I didn't want to mess up my ISF calibration on that input if I started messing w/ the tv's controls.
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post #113 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislee
No JPCO, only the settings on the player as I didn't want to mess up my ISF calibration on that input if I started messing w/ the tv's controls.
write down your settings and then adjust your brightness on your set. With the proper combo of the brightness settings on the player and TV, BTB should appear. Your brightness is likely currently set too low on your set for the new player and is crushing black.

Cory
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post #114 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco
General question to all: Is it possible that a cheap cable is enhancing the MB enhance?
I'm wondering about this too. I've always been of the opinion that a digital cable is a digital cable, but something isn't right here. When looking at the test patterns on DVE, there were huge sections of discoloration everywhere. Watching the moving pattern was especailly bad, but some of the pluge patterns looked horrible. I see a slight bit of artifaction (is that a word) with my Zenith, but it was nothing compared to the s77. I haven't tried component.

I'm wondering if the problem could be with the HDMI input on the TV. I don't know how I would try this without purchasing another DVD player. I'm worried about this, as I plan to eventually use this set with HD-DVD or Blu Ray.
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post #115 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky
Ditto. Where are you seeing this? For me, HDMI gives me static like appearance, like a high quality VHS. Component smooths this out, clear, but much much darker. Too dark from what I can see. But I actually found a whole bunch of new controls by accident (press the up and down buttons when pressing the brightness or contrast) and that made refining the picture much better.
I really noticed the problem on DVE test patterns. Because I had to go to the airport after work to pick up my wife (a 2 hour drive each way, plus an hour for dinner in Portland), I didnt' get a chance to watch much on it. Tonight when it gets dark I'll give it a good, analytic look.

Are there any firmware updates for the s77? I know there was one for the s97 that reduced MB enhancement greatly. Is there anything like that for the s77?
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post #116 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 01:01 PM
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OK, I've played with all the controls. The difference between the HDMI and component connections are STRIKING. That's not necessarily a good thing for either. The HDMI connection produces vibrant, bright pictures and colors. However they are so vibrant that the colors are off, saturated, and everyone looks like they have a suntan/burn of some kind. There is little way to fix this except to reduce the color until it looks drab. There are no controls for specific areas of color like tint, etc.

The component can look very smooth and clear. But the picture looks washed out, drab, lifeless. It's far less bright than the HDMI regardless of the brightness setting (which washes out the vividness of the colors that were present.) I hate to say it but the Toshiba SD5700 with the Zoran chip that is years old looks better. I'm not sure I can explain why just yet although this does seem sharper.

Another issue with the HDMI connection is still the "static" like or snow effect. The picture is not razor sharp/clear as it is more frequently with component video at any level, even not upconverted. At times the picture will be beautiful only to go to the next scene to cringe.

Am I making a big deal over the picture? Actually... no. I'm not a perfectionist and when I see something noticeably off I'll mention it. Supposedly the Zoran chip suffered from another problem viewing reds -- didn't notice it or bother me. This time there is no question, especially with HDMI, that there is macroblocking (not so bad), snow/static effect (very noticeable), and colors being off. This DVD player has many options and you need to find them all but it's driving me crazy that the picture isn't so great at this point.
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post #117 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky
OK, I've played with all the controls. The difference between the HDMI and component connections are STRIKING. That's not necessarily a good thing for either. The HDMI connection produces vibrant, bright pictures and colors. However they are so vibrant that the colors are off, saturated, and everyone looks like they have a suntan/burn of some kind. There is little way to fix this except to reduce the color until it looks drab. There are no controls for specific areas of color like tint, etc.
I would assume that the main issue here is calibration. Your component input and HDMI input are probably calibrated individually of each other. If everyone looks sunburnt over HDMI, it sounds like the calibration is off. I wouldn't mess with the settings on the play, but rather the settings on the TV itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky
Am I making a big deal over the picture? Actually... no. I'm not a perfectionist and when I see something noticeably off I'll mention it. Supposedly the Zoran chip suffered from another problem viewing reds -- didn't notice it or bother me. This time there is no question, especially with HDMI, that there is macroblocking (not so bad), snow/static effect (very noticeable), and colors being off. This DVD player has many options and you need to find them all but it's driving me crazy that the picture isn't so great at this point.
I'm having the opposite issue. I see less noise over HDMI than I'm seeing from component (although component irght now is a different player). In HDMI, however, the macroblocking is a huge issue!
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post #118 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 01:32 PM
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Yes... WOW. I am watching "North by Northwest." In the scene at the end of chapter 5 where our hero who is not "Kaplan" is given a drink on the sofa in the room of the beautiful home, the macroblocking is outrageously bad. Going to the next scene where he is drunk driving, it's just as bad. My player is set at 1080i. It's horrible. I'm wondering whether I should return this for the Samsung HD950 that I originally bought. How crazy is all of this? People say that this player looks beautiful but my G-d, the macroblocking is unbearable.

Now I'm not sure that MB is the right term, but just to make sure, when you see "rings" of color that are gradual around objects, they aren't smooth as in component. The bands of gradient, gradual color changes, look like blotched blocks of digital information. It's bad. Really bad and very noticeable. Sometimes worse than others but far worse than component video. Anyone else have this popular movie?
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post #119 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 01:58 PM
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this is a noob question, so i apologize in advance. I have an hdmi slot in sony kv30hs420--but my cable box is using that hdmi slot. My question is for this panny over component, I have read alot of people playing it at 480p. can you select 1080i over component, or is that only an option over hdmi? Or do they have nothing to do with each other, and its just people prefer 480p over 1080i? I read on benchmarks that this player seems to do well over component as well. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out.
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post #120 of 754 Old 06-30-2005, 02:41 PM
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ydave77 - You can only do 480i and 480p over component.

Also, for anyone having problems w/ MB - Make sure your brightness is calibrated. If it's too high it'll appear far worse. Also, MB is greatly reduced at 480p on HDMI and there is NO MB at 480p over component.

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