Panasonic S77 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman
dsmith901: Not really, so some maybe but your best bet isn't to look for it. Trust me.... Someone told me about a banning problem with my HS20 that I never saw, till after I read that here somewhere. Well I saw it all the time after that, so I had to trade the damn thing in ;) If you look hard enough you will find flaws in everything..
Seems to me if you have to "look" for it, MB can't be too bad. Thanks for the input. I will probably stick with my RP-56 until Faroudja solves this little problem.

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post #182 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 08:32 AM
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It depends on the display, I guess, but I would not call MB a "little" problem. If you see it, it's hard to accept this player as a keeper. Since we're striving for top of the line picture quality, something like macroblocking is a deal breaker for many (was for me).

Having experienced it without looking for it, I'd say you probably will see it if it is there. If not, that's great, because besides the MB enhance bug, this is an excellent player. Although I do agree with Garman, once you start obsessing over a flaw or perceived flaw, it's hard to relax and just enjoy the movie.
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post #183 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 02:55 PM
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jpco: It all depends on the set your using etc.. If this was in my main HT system, and I did see Macroblocking I would most likely look for something else. But I find it ironic that the S97 with the firmware update doesn't have this problem and the S77 does and there suppose pretty damn close to about the same player with a few options missing on the S77. Maybe Panasonic doesn't have a update for this unit yet, also don't forget its big brother did score above a 90 on the secrets page and anything above an 80 is worth a look if the price isn't too steep.
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post #184 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 03:07 PM
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Garman: Because the player does very well in the Secrets categories, I have tried three of them, hoping that the MB would be less. My point is that a visible anomaly is in direct opposition to what we're trying to achieve with these players, so if it's highly evident for your main display, it's pretty much a deal-breaker. Obviously, if a display does not show it, it's not a problem at all.

Now, I have another question about this player. As I mentioned above, I've tried three of them. Most recently, I saw some slight, quick combing on two different titles. Changing from Auto 1 to Auto 2 did not make a difference. However, switching to Video did get rid of the combing (one was season 3 of 24 and the other was a documentary that combined video and film). I would have thought a player as highly rated in deinterlacing would not have had this problem. Also, in the Secrets review, Kris Deering says Video really is of no use, but that was not my experience, as Video corrected the problem on the documentary. So, the question is, is this player defective? Both discs played fine on my Pioneer 220-S DVD recorder set on Auto. Anyone else see anything like this?
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post #185 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 03:09 PM
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http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...onicDVD-S97%20

Pretty darn good player with a score of 94! It scored higher than the S97...

Looks like the wonderful guys at STHT have tested this puppy... Many thanks
A quote from there review which I find interesting.. Since I own a HS51 Sony LCD projector. No wonder why I can't see MB on this unit or my Sharp LCD.

"De-Interlacing

The S77 uses a new chip from Genesis called the FLI-2310-LF. I had heard rumors that Genesis and Faroudja had figured out the dreaded “macroblocking†issue that has been so rampant with the latest Genesis chip. Since this chip seemed to be a new iteration of the 2300, I thought for sure this player would not have macroblocking. Unfortunately, that is not the case. In fact, it is worse in this regard than its big brother the S97. Using my tried and true reference scene, Chapter 22 of A Bug’s Life, macroblocking was clearly evident through almost the entire scene. I don’t know why we haven’t seen this problem fixed yet, but it has become more and more frustrating for everyone. As with all FLI-2310 based players, I don’t recommend the S77 if you have a display that shows the issue. Unfortunately we don’t have a list of what displays those are, but we do know that Panasonic plasmas are one of the worst offenders. On a positive note, none of the Sony Cineza (HS-20, HS-50, HS-51) based projectors show the macroblocking bug at all. I cannot comment on the rest of the Sony line."

Again, like someone stated on here it can depend on you're display! And some other factors. But you would think if Panasonic Plasmas are the worst offenders of showing the MB problem, that they won't come out with a update to address or ton the MB problem down. Again, the two displays I used don't show it.
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post #186 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 03:21 PM
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Jpco: I not saying this is this by far the best player out there, but for the money it sure does out preform many players I have had or tried. I love 24 also :) But haven't tried looking at the problem you had with your unit. It could be a defective player, I am sure the quality control in China somewhere isn't as good as it once was in Japan :) Hell ask me about my Denon 2800 problems, I swore I would never buy one again, I waited and they came out with the 3910 which I am very happy with so far. Is it the whole 3rd Season on 24 that does it? To me it seems like it could be the pressing, but I can't tell you unless I test it.
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post #187 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 03:41 PM
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On 24 it happens coming back from the (removed) commercial breaks, pretty consistently. I tried it on my recorder and it didn't happen. Maybe it is defective, because the other title combed on there and not on my recorder or the Apple DVD player on my computer. Not what I'd expect from a player that passes all of the deinterlacing tests.
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post #188 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 05:13 PM
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I just started a new thread, but it probably would have been better to just post the information here:

I've found on my set that settings the HDMI color space to RGB and setting the RGB range to enhanced makes the MB issue almost completely go away in the test patterns I was looking at. I'm going to take a look at actual scenes from movies to further test this, but this might be a possible workaround for some of us...
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post #189 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale
I've found on my set that settings the HDMI color space to RGB and setting the RGB range to enhanced makes the MB issue almost completely go away in the test patterns I was looking at. I'm going to take a look at actual scenes from movies to further test this, but this might be a possible workaround for some of us...
I tried that, and, if set to enhanced RGB, the player does not pass BTB no matter the Brightness setting.
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post #190 of 754 Old 07-05-2005, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoleg
I tried that, and, if set to enhanced RGB, the player does not pass BTB no matter the Brightness setting.
I'm just guessing: ur projector will pehaps need to be changed to accept PC level RGB. I know some PJs can switch the level of the DVI input between "Video" and "Computer"
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post #191 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoleg
I tried that, and, if set to enhanced RGB, the player does not pass BTB no matter the Brightness setting.
Yes, I revisited this in the thread I started about the s77's MB issues. When set to enhanced, the player passes a PC colorspace rather than studio, which means not only are blacks clipped, but the colors themselves are incorrect.
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post #192 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 10:43 AM
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Reading this thread I cant help but LOL at how bent out of shape everyone gets over a DVD player.
I just bought a Panny S97, installed the most recent firmware (540) and run it with component cables at 480p to an Optoma H31 fp. Simply put, it is the best DVD player I have ever owned.
I sure as heck dont see any macroblocking or any other type of problems.

IMO this is a top rate unit.

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post #193 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle
Reading this thread I cant help but LOL at how bent out of shape everyone gets over a DVD player.
I just bought a Panny S97, installed the most recent firmware (540) and run it with component cables at 480p to an Optoma H31 fp. Simply put, it is the best DVD player I have ever owned.
I sure as heck dont see any macroblocking or any other type of problems.
Well, we are all extremely happy for you. I guess if you don't experience the problem, then nobody else has the problem. :)

But then again, if you read this thread and realized that the macroblocking issue is one encountered by using the ***HDMI*** connection and not the component, perhaps you might see what we are all talking and agonizing about. ;)

If you spent a few thousand on a big screen TV and your S97 gave you a picture the way my S77 appears, you wouldn't be too happy either. You'd be even more unhappy futzing with everything for HOURS and returning a unit to see whether it's the player or something else. Is it too much to ask someone to actually view a few videos on a few different TVs before sending these items out into the mass market?
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post #194 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle
Reading this thread I cant help but LOL at how bent out of shape everyone gets over a DVD player.
I just bought a Panny S97, installed the most recent firmware (540) and run it with component cables at 480p to an Optoma H31 fp. Simply put, it is the best DVD player I have ever owned.
I sure as heck dont see any macroblocking or any other type of problems.

IMO this is a top rate unit.
Of course you don't see any macroblocking, you are using component cables. You get no macroblocking using component out.

Ernie
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post #195 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Worms
Of course you don't see any macroblocking, you are using component cables. You get no macroblocking using component out.
This is definitely not correct.
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post #196 of 754 Old 07-06-2005, 05:59 PM
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Agreed. It may not show X display, it will show on Y display.

As I said, the the S97 shows MB on my display display. Compare it to LiteUp who uses a different display and doesn't show on his. Speaking of that, LiteUp, did you test your unit on the CRT display yet?
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post #197 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 10:59 AM
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I've looked for the Panny s77 or the s97 with no luck. Looks like you can only buy it on-line or something. Same with the Sammy 950. You guys have to quit recommending things that can't be found in any retail places like the Oppo DVD player. I don't like buying things on-line cuz return policies stink.

With regards to Monster - I was at BB getting just the AR video cables and the salesman pointed me to the Monster cables instead. Luckily, I've read your posts and easily denied him. I guess if you like cables with big plastic colored hunks on them then Monster is the brand for you. I thought BB people didn't bother with sales pitches.
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post #198 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooptonydog
I've looked for the Panny s77 or the s97 with no luck. Looks like you can only buy it on-line or something. Same with the Sammy 950. You guys have to quit recommending things that can't be found in any retail places like the Oppo DVD player. I don't like buying things on-line cuz return policies stink.
I believey ou can purchase the s77 online at Circuit City, and then return it in store if the player doesn't work out for you. The same might be true with Wal-Mart. Take a look at the return policies before taking my word for it, tho!
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post #199 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooptonydog
I've looked for the Panny s77 or the s97 with no luck. Looks like you can only buy it on-line or something. Same with the Sammy 950. You guys have to quit recommending things that can't be found in any retail places like the Oppo DVD player. I don't like buying things on-line cuz return policies stink.
Fry's carries it. That's where i got mine. They even had a couple of the S97's, but that was a couple of months ago.
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post #200 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 12:05 PM
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best buy has also started carrying the s97
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post #201 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 12:41 PM
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North Jersey, must be a Mongolia store? BB that is. I haven't seen Panasonic models at any BB around here in a long time.
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post #202 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 12:59 PM
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I got the last s97 at Fry's eletronics in north Phoenix the other day. I didn't know if the 77 had movable subtitles, so got the 97. They had plenty of the 77's though.
Sad being afraid to purchace online. Many online places have great return policies. Some of the best value stuff is online only, like Ascend Acustics speakers, and SV subwoofers.
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post #203 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 06:56 PM
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My 77 arrived today :D

a quick 5 minute setup right in the middle of a movie we were watching (Kingdom Hospital) and the difference between this guy and the 850 Sammy I also have is breathtaking. . .

I understand why some get frustrated and throw their hands up as never have I seen so much to tweak with for so little.

Not being familiar with the workings of a Panasonic player I left everything pretty much at default except for size, MDMI, bitstream audio. . . . the basics. . . Anyway after about 3 hours of Stephen King I decided to pull out VE and check her out more throurally. . . .

I know I still have a lot to learn and as time goes by I will get more comfortable with this player. However I can tell now its a winner at least with my display and what I usually watch.

I tried to find MB but none. . . absolutly none. . . (so far. . .) I had gotten to the point with the 850 that I was watching 480i over componet letting my Sony 55WF655 do the heavy lifting. The 850 was just to dark over HDMI and I did not feel comfortable raising the levels past default on my display.

Using levels set on my HDMI input that I set using my 2910 I put the 77 in service and bang right out of the box she was great. . .

As I stated I have a lot to learn about the 77's menus and correct adjustments. . . this will come in time. . . I had myself about half paranoid after reading the good and the bad on this forum. . . Well in my case the good is ahead by a large margin. . .

After I get her set corectly I will post the levels and settings I use. . . Right now I am a happy camper. . .

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post #204 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 07:49 PM
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Is there a rule of thumb about the length of the HDMI cable? My current component run is 40-50ft? Is it even feasible to have the same length HDMI cable and expect no problems?
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post #205 of 754 Old 07-07-2005, 09:51 PM
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Randyman: Try some cheap cables first and see if you can return them. Or better yet see if BB or CC has something like that is stock or your local Audio shop, so you can at least try it and return it if it doesn't work out. Or check this place out, cables pretty cheap>>>>>> monoprice.com

gyusher: Seems like there are a lot of Sony's includiing my projector that aren't prone to the MB problem with this player. I guess that is a good thing for us ;)
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post #206 of 754 Old 07-08-2005, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman

gyusher: Seems like there are a lot of Sony's includiing my projector that aren't prone to the MB problem with this player. I guess that is a good thing for us ;)


Hot Damn. . . . . . . . WoooHoooooooo. . .

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post #207 of 754 Old 07-08-2005, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyusher
Hot Damn. . . . . . . . WoooHoooooooo. . .
I'm reading conflicting opinions and posts. The macroblocking issue is worst when using the HDMI connection, from my understanding, and my S77 emulates that perfectly. Some here are reporting not seeing it under the component connection, within which the problem is significantly masked (it's night and day on mine but the picture is clearly brighter in every way using HDMI.) I would find it hard to believe that on one TV it can be seen so clearly and then on another you can't see it at all.
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post #208 of 754 Old 07-08-2005, 07:24 AM
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"Seeing is believing," It is true that macroblocking can be seen on some displays and not on others. That is the reason why you should get one with a 30 day return policy.

It is a great player if you don't have macroblocking issues.
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post #209 of 754 Old 07-08-2005, 07:41 AM
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Don't laugh but what exactly is the definition of macroblocking? Better yet-does anyone have a picture as an example? I see background 'noise' with mine when I watch some movies (like an old copy of The Highlander) But not on others. Is that considered macroblocking? I have mine thru HDMI connected to a Sony 34XS955.
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post #210 of 754 Old 07-08-2005, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman
North Jersey, must be a Mongolia store? BB that is. I haven't seen Panasonic models at any BB around here in a long time.
it was a best buy store that recently added the Magnolia section, but the 97 was found in the regular DVD section of BB, not in the higher level Magnolia DVD section, which only seemed to have Denon dvd players.
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