What players support 480i over DVI-D or HDMI? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 239 Old 02-22-2006, 11:50 AM
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By the way, a month or so ago, Oppo customer service said the 970H will most likely be digitally outputting 480i RGB at 4:4:4. (They did add that these specs might be subject to change prior to introduction.) As of last week, latest timeframe for this unit is April.

I wonder, is YCbCr-> RGB colorspace conversion hardwired into the Mediatek MP2 decoder chip, or a design decision by Oppo? If the latter, wouldn't it be a nice plus to make it menu selectable?

/steve
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post #62 of 239 Old 02-22-2006, 01:15 PM
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I think I remember reading the MPEG decoders can output RGB 4:4:4. I doubt you'd visiually notice any difference with everything else being equal compared to YCbCr 4:2:2. However, I believe scalers/processors work in the YCbCr "domain". If so, they'd convert the RGB back to YCbCr.

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One would hope in a well-engineered player, though, that setting these controls to "flat" or "off" might make such circuitry transparent.

Which is exactly what didn't happen in the Pio players. And 0 vs 7.5 IRE option for digital output? Please. Black level IRE doesn't exist in the digital domain.

larry

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post #63 of 239 Old 02-22-2006, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

And 0 vs 7.5 IRE option for digital output? Please. Black level IRE doesn't exist in the digital domain.

larry

Are you this Larry?

http://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/lj_white.html

Oppo service also said the 970H would pass BTB.
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post #64 of 239 Old 02-22-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluciani View Post

Are you this Larry?

http://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/lj_white.html

Oppo service also said the 970H would pass BTB.

LOL! No, that's not me. Also, one reason I thought Oppo might convert the 480i to RGB is to guard against the HDMI chip from doing conversion from YCbCr to RGB for DVI targets. Some older HDMI chipset(s) did this conversion incorrectly (clipped BTB and WTW data). However, I didn't mention this because I wouldn't think anybody would be using these old HDMI chips and hopefully the current ones do it correctly.

larry

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post #65 of 239 Old 02-23-2006, 12:41 PM
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O what the heck!

Does mine? See sig...

I think it does, but I am sure I'm wrong.

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post #66 of 239 Old 02-23-2006, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeener71 View Post

O what the heck!

Does mine? See sig...

I think it does, but I am sure I'm wrong.

Don't think so. Also, your gear list belongs in your AVS user profile, not your sig. Thanks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6930498

larry

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post #67 of 239 Old 02-25-2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 View Post

My LG LDA-511 will output 480i over HDMI, as my projector confirms that it receives a 480i signal.

Anyone have any critiques of the video quality of the LG LDA-511? At $199 MSRP, is it a sleeper? Or should it be put to sleep?

Does anyone know what MPEG decoder it uses and how 'pure' the 480i output is? I just don't want to overlook a potentially good 480i over HDMI l player amidst all the hoopla surrounding the upcoming 970H.

/steve
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post #68 of 239 Old 02-28-2006, 05:27 PM
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Is the Sony DVP-NS975V HDMI output selectable for 480i in addition to the 720p and 1080i?

I'd like to buy one, but I'd really appreciate it if somebody here could verify that it does 480i output, for sure. I haven't been able to find anything on the Sony website to confirm that it does. It must be a discontinued player because it doesn't show up in the list of current DVD players.
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post #69 of 239 Old 02-28-2006, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uliving View Post

Is the Sony DVP-NS975V HDMI output selectable for 480i in addition to the 720p and 1080i?

I'd like to buy one, but I'd really appreciate it if somebody here could verify that it does 480i output, for sure. I haven't been able to find anything on the Sony website to confirm that it does. It must be a discontinued player because it doesn't show up in the list of current DVD players.

Easy solution (2 min or less). Google it, go to Amazon.com, download pdf manual.

Did it. Net/net, on page 79 it confirms that an HDMI selection can be 720 x 480i.

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post #70 of 239 Old 02-28-2006, 06:34 PM
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ted_b, you're a scholar and a gentleman....as well as one clever guy...thanks !!!
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post #71 of 239 Old 02-28-2006, 06:45 PM
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No prob.....just a guy with WAY too much time on his hands.... :>)

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post #72 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 10:58 AM
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The first post in the thread also has a list of players that do 480i via HDMI and the Sony 975 is in the list.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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post #73 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 12:17 PM
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Is there is an opinion from the folks on this thread regarding the quality of the Soni 975 outputting 480i ?

poor, good, great ???
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post #74 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 02:07 PM
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Kris reported in his Secret's review that the 975 does not pass black-than-black via HDMI. IMO, any player that has this bug is worthless, especially if you want to use it for 480i into a good scaler.

larry

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post #75 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Kris reported in his Secret's review that the 975 does not pass black-than-black via HDMI. IMO, any player that has this bug is worthless, especially if you want to use it for 480i into a good scaler.

Larry,

As long as there's no black crush going on and the player's gray scale has been carefully calibrated with something like DVE (or even the THX setup patterns), why is not passing BTB necessarily a bad thing? There shouldn't be an BTB information on the source DVD, should there?

Or are you thinking you need BTB if you want to use the player to display JPEGs?

/steve
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post #76 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:


There shouldn't be an BTB information on the source DVD, should there?

DVDs contain BTB and WTW. Somewhere, probably in the archives now, you can find images that show the BTB data in a screen capture. Search for "The Talented Mr. Ripley". Even though a calibrated digital display will not show BTB, the video info is crucial for scaling. If you want a video chain that is close, clipping BTB and WTW may not be a big impact. If you are trying to put together a video chain that is as accurate as you can make it, you want all the video info contained on the DVD to make it to your video processor.

larry

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post #77 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

DVDs contain BTB and WTW.

WOW. You learn something new every day! I assume DVD's that pass this info are technically "out of spec", however? I understand that the data can help scaling "in theory", but in reality, do you think anyone is likely to notice less than perfect edge definition in these extreme black and white areas of the picture? Maybe, but I'm not sure.

And as you say, if a display is properly calibrated, you're not going to notice detail in these areas either.

Here's the thread I think you were referring to. This post is an analysis of below black pixels in selected frames of "Talented Mr. Ripley". Post #21 has a link to a JPG scene.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...94#post1486694

/steve
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post #78 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 05:31 PM
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There's a reason why "black" is 16 and "white" is 235 (or is it 234?) in the range of 0-255 in 8bit digital video.
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And as you say, if a display is properly calibrated, you're not going to notice detail in these areas either.

Yes, but only for digital displays. Clipping BTB can cause "dark" details to be lost where there was BTB info and scaling is being done. CRTs, given they way they work, will sometimes show BTB info depending on the level of "brightness" immediately preceeding the BTB in the same part of the image.

larry

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post #79 of 239 Old 03-01-2006, 08:37 PM
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You guys are way over my head on the BTB thing....

I already have a Sony DVD that does a decent job of 480p, but I'm getting a Lumagen HDP and have read just enough to be dangerous. It sounds like getting a 480i would be a good idea and send the signal to the LumagenHDP via the HDMI input. I'm in the process of deciding on a 720p DLP projector (probably the new Infocus IN76, but waiting for a few reviews before purchasing). Other options are the Benq 8720, if I can get confirmation from Benq that a short throw lens is available...which I haven't been able to confirm yet.

I was interested in the Sony 975 because it is reasonably priced right now...but from the above it sounds like I should pass on it.

Has anybody thought of ranking the list at the beginning of this thread in Best to Worst dvd machines that can do 480i via HDMI and identifying those that really aren't worth considering? That would be EXTREMELY helpful for us neophytes.
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post #80 of 239 Old 03-02-2006, 05:53 AM
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If you are getting a 720p native DLP or LCD projector, you may want to try an upscaling DVD player outputting at 720p. The Lumagen is a nice piece of gear, but it may be a good a idea to get a "baseline" for comparison so you can decide if the extra thousand(s of) dollars is justified for your own personal tastes and criteria.

larry

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post #81 of 239 Old 03-02-2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

The first post in the thread also has a list of players that do 480i via HDMI and the Sony 975 is in the list.

larry

Yes, of course, that's why the player was of interest! He just couldn't confirm it with Sony, et al. I don't blame him for checking. No offense, but I'd do the due-dilligence too if spending any $$.

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post #82 of 239 Old 03-02-2006, 12:22 PM
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Oh, I didn't know there was a question. Well, obviously there was but not when the players were put on the list. Back when the 975 came out there was a lot of discussion about it and 480i output was confirmed, from what I remember. No harm helping a guy out. Please don't stop.

larry

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post #83 of 239 Old 03-02-2006, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uliving View Post

You guys are way over my head on the BTB thing....

What I take from what Larry is saying re: BTB is that if you plan on using a digital display device calibrated to ISF or DVE black levels, it's not going to make a visible difference if the player passes blacker than black or not. If the DVD has below black information encoded on it, you're not going to see it, whether the player passes it or not, because you've adjusted your display to the industry standard for black level that most DVD's adhere to. Anything blacker than standard black will be 'crushed'.

If, like me, this is the way you choose to go, the Sony 975 would be fine, assuming you can find one. It's also an upconverter, and I agree with Larry that you might want to try it's built-in 720p upconversion before spending big bucks on an external scaler that may only offer a subtle improvement in picture quality for a much higher cash outlay.

If, on the other hand, you either plan to use a CRT-based projector, or to adjust your digital projector so that industry standard 100% blacks are really charcoal gray instead, than you may see more shadow detail on some DVD's with a player that allows BTB information to pass to your display device. (I used to adjust my plasma display blacks to charcoal grey, but have since come to prefer seeing black as truly black.) Well-regarded and relatively inexpensive 720P upconverters that do pass BTB (but not 480i digital) that come to mind include the Oppo 971H (connected via DVI), the Panny S97 and the Denon 1900.

/steve
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post #84 of 239 Old 03-02-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:


If, on the other hand, you either plan to use a CRT-based projector, or to adjust your digital projector so that industry standard 100% blacks are really charcoal gray instead,

Actually, some people advocate this. Many digital displays are "weak" at displaying things at the very bottom of their "black range". If you elevate brightness a tad, you can see more dark detail at the expense of "not black" blacks. Sometimes this is not a bad tradeoff, especially in bright viewing environments.

larry

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post #85 of 239 Old 03-11-2006, 10:59 PM
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Just as an FYI, everyone seems to be leaving out that the Sony 975 is plagued with issues. I only got to play about 3 DVD's before the HDMI on mine went out. It also has a big issue with the DVD tray getting stuck.
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post #86 of 239 Old 03-14-2006, 03:47 PM
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The NeuNeo HVD2085 added 480i over HDMI with the latest firmware available at the Neodigits site.

Chris
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post #87 of 239 Old 03-15-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post

The NeuNeo HVD2085 added 480i over HDMI with the latest firmware available at the Neodigits site.

Chris

Thanks. I added it to the list in post #1.

larry

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post #88 of 239 Old 03-24-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Bigelow View Post

Sony DVP-NS975V does 480i over HDMI the NS70, NS90 do not.l

Anyone know if the NS75, due out next week, will support 480i over HDMI?

/steve
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post #89 of 239 Old 03-29-2006, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Green View Post

Ted:

What I would like to know is this: What manufacturer is out-putting a pure MPEG bit stream?

Rick

None. HDMI carries video pixels across the link, i.e., RGB444, YCbCr444, or YCbCr422. It's not designed to transport MPEG2 packet data.
The ieee1394 interface, however, does transport MPEG streams. In this case, the TV is the decoder, and then the question becomes "how good is the decoder in the ieee1394 tv set"? But that's OT for this thread.

-[ EFF ]-
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post #90 of 239 Old 03-30-2006, 10:30 AM
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NeuNuo HELIOS HVD2085 w/ recent ver. 4 firmware supports both 480i and 576i trhu HDMI port. Anyone tried one?
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