What players support 480i over DVI-D or HDMI? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 239 Old 03-30-2006, 09:42 AM
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Looks like the new Pioneers will continue to support 480i over HDMI as well. The MSRPs are only $99 for the DV-490V and $149 for the DV-696AV! They are both "universal" players (DIVX, WMA, etc).

The 696AV also supports DVD-Audio and SACD and has some additional circuitry intended to improve PAL playback (Dual Pure Cinema Progressive Scan ).

Anyone tried one of these?

/steve

EDIT: Japanese link to the 696AV: http://www.pioneer.co.jp/dvdld/playe...6av/index.html. This player appears to support just about any input format out there.
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post #92 of 239 Old 05-01-2006, 09:40 AM
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Kris Deering of Secrets just did a review of the Marantz 9600 and said its the most accurate video trasport (480i via HDMI and component) to date. One little snag though, it costs $2099! Of course, it does a lot more than just play DVDs. Hopefully the Oppo 970 will have similar video performance for 1/10 the price whenever it finally comes out.

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post #93 of 239 Old 05-02-2006, 05:42 PM
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Excellent thread, thank you for the information. I've recently ordered a DVDO VP30, and was looking for a DVD player to do exactly this - output 480i. I have not decided on a display yet (I'm leaning towards the AE900, but have an offer on an InFocus 7210 that is tempting) but this thread has helped me knock one more decision off the list.

I believe I'll be going with the HVD2085, going by the name Helios now on the Neodigits website.
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post #94 of 239 Old 05-03-2006, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicey View Post

Kris Deering of Secrets just did a review of the Marantz 9600 and said its the most accurate video trasport (480i via HDMI and component) to date. One little snag though, it costs $2099!.


No one is dumb enough to spend $2100 for a transport....right??

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post #95 of 239 Old 05-04-2006, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

No one is dumb enough to spend $2100 for a transport....right??

You spend more in a car, also a transport

Nacho.
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post #96 of 239 Old 05-04-2006, 06:56 AM
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No one is dumb enough to spend $2100 for a transport....right??

Hello,


Audio/Video is my only hobby that I have had for most of my 49 years. It is only money in my opinion. I say this because I think I need to try one of the 9600s out. Input 480i into the VP30 to my Epson 800.

rmlowz
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post #97 of 239 Old 05-04-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post

No one is dumb enough to spend $2100 for a transport....right??

Hello,


Audio/Video is my only hobby that I have had for most of my 49 years. It is only money in my opinion. I say this because I think I need to try one of the 9600s out. Input 480i into the VP30 to my Epson 800.

rmlowz

I want also one for my S4.

But I still think like you

Does anyone tried the 9600 + S4?

Nacho.
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post #98 of 239 Old 05-04-2006, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post


Audio/Video is my only hobby that I have had for most of my 49 years. It is only money in my opinion. I say this because I think I need to try one of the 9600s out. Input 480i into the VP30 to my Epson 800.

rmlowz


I wouldn't say that Audio/Video is the only hobby I have had for my 50 years...

Yeah, I am looking for 480i HDMI for my VP30 to augment my Onkyo sp1000 setup.
$2100 is about $1500 more than is necessary for that IMHO.
Bring on the Oppo 970H!

To each his own...

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post #99 of 239 Old 05-04-2006, 01:42 PM
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Hello,


I need to correct what I said. What I should have said is, its the only hobby that I have had and kept for a long time. All the other hobbies have come and gone.

rmlowz
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post #100 of 239 Old 05-05-2006, 12:12 PM
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Apparently the Pioneer DV-989AVI-S and Pioneer DV-868AVI-S also support 480/576i via HDMI (from their User Guides). They may be the EU models of the Elite ones...
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post #101 of 239 Old 05-05-2006, 12:28 PM
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And so does the LG DVX9900H
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post #102 of 239 Old 05-09-2006, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frthomas View Post

Apparently the Pioneer DV-989AVI-S and Pioneer DV-868AVI-S also support 480/576i via HDMI (from their User Guides). They may be the EU models of the Elite ones...

Yes, they are the US equivalents.

larry

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post #103 of 239 Old 05-09-2006, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frthomas View Post

And so does the LG DVX9900H

OK, I'll take your word for it.

larry

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post #104 of 239 Old 05-09-2006, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Yes, they are the US equivalents.

Right. Now I think it could help European readers if their references made it to the list on the first post, maybe in parenthesis next to the US models ?

Also, may I suggest the last item on the list (a Pio 490 or something) is placed next to the other Pioneer with a full "brand" name? It took me a while to figure out "Pio" was "Pioneer" :-)

Just trying to make an excellent reference better. Thanks for maintaining the list, this is a great resource.

Fred
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post #105 of 239 Old 05-09-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

No one is dumb enough to spend $2100 for a transport....right??

Everyone has different tastes and preferences. There is no need to ridicule someone for their choices. The Marantz has a lot of things in it that I highly doubt the Oppo will have, or even your Onkyo 1000. Heck, the Onkyo has a retail price of $2000, and it can't even output 480i over HDMI into your VP30. How dumb is that? And if you have a $2000 player, why do you have a $2000 video processor? Some might see that as dumb.

For people who are unfortunate enough to have a very critical video eye, the Marantz might be worth the extra money to squeeze whatever extra performance they can.

Having a look at the Marantz user manual, you have a choice of outputting one of these formats over HDMI (at 480i), dependent on the connected display:

RGB-Normal
RGB-Expand
YCbCr-1 (4:4:4)
YCbCr2 (4:2:2)

I'm no video guru, but I think these options might be important. All 480i outputs over HDMI are not equal. The goal is to have an unprocessed signal going straight from the DVD disc out through the HDMI port. Perhaps the Marantz does this the best over any other players that Kris Deering has reviewed.

I don't have any Marantz equipment. I'm just saying that it is insensitive to infer that anyone who might be thinking of purchasing the Marantz for its' 480i output over HDMI instead of the Oppo might be dumb. There are a lot of reasons one might want the Marantz instead of the Oppo.

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post #106 of 239 Old 05-09-2006, 03:10 PM
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FerretHunter,


I wasn't attempting to ridicule anyone...if so, I apologize.

I was merely looking at the situation as to what that amount of money can purchase in terms of performance.
If you add the cost of a VP and an inexpensive 480i HDMI transport this could equal or be less than the Marantz, with the added bonus of processing other sources for a display.
And more and more AVSers are arriving at that analysis.

How have I come to this conclusion?
A little history helps...I purchased the Onkyo 1 1/2 years ago.
Puts out a nice picture @720p IMO.
However, I wanted to upgrade performance for dvds and other sources.
So I bought a DVDO VP30 a month ago (not 1 1/2 years ago).
Now I need a 480i player (the Onkyo goes upstairs at that point).

Sensitivity aside, there are not good reasons to buy the Marantz for 480i only.
If anyone thought there was, I would say that "more research" might be appropriate.
Lastly, and not least: IMHO.

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post #107 of 239 Old 05-10-2006, 04:29 PM
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Well boys... and girls if so happens.
I have a VP30 with SDI... the add on card on the way...
A RP56 with SDI, a RP62 with SDI, and (wait for it) picked up a Marantz 9600 today.

Should have time to use it all this weekend.
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post #108 of 239 Old 05-10-2006, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darian View Post

Well boys... and girls if so happens.
I have a VP30 with SDI... the add on card on the way...
A RP56 with SDI, a RP62 with SDI, and (wait for it) picked up a Marantz 9600 today.

Should have time to use it all this weekend.


Please give us a review after you have hooked up all your players.
Have you received an ABT102 yet?
Should have an excellent benefit to SD DVD...

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post #109 of 239 Old 05-15-2006, 10:30 PM
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How about this one? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134703785411 I got one, love its look and it plays well. It does have optical audio out as well as coax. The picture doesn't do it justice. It is piano black on the sides.
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post #110 of 239 Old 05-16-2006, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

How about this one? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134703785411 I got one, love its look and it plays well. It does have optical audio out as well as coax. The picture doesn't do it justice. It is piano black on the sides.


Does it put out 480i HDMI?

Seems to be a bit too inexpensive perhaps...

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post #111 of 239 Old 05-16-2006, 02:43 PM
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Yes, and a 30 day return policy.
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post #112 of 239 Old 05-20-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, and a 30 day return policy.

Is it selectable between RGB and digital component as well? (i.e., 4:4:4 vs. RGB)


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post #113 of 239 Old 05-20-2006, 02:04 PM
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yes.
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post #114 of 239 Old 05-21-2006, 07:19 AM
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You don't have to pay $2100 for the DV 9600. Do a google search. You can find them much cheaper.

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post #115 of 239 Old 05-26-2006, 10:07 PM
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I started a new thread about this player, but thought that I should include a post here as well.

The new Pioneer DV-490V-S, MSRP $120.00.

Has an HDMI output. Will put out RGB or YCbCR at the following resolutions:
480i
480P
720P
1080i

It will do this into an HDMI or DVI input.

It has two selections for HDMI Color:
"Full range RGB" outputs digital video in the PC signal standard
"RGB" outputs digital video in the Video signal standard (16-235).

It does not pass Blacker than Black. It does pass Whiter than White.

Navigation is almost instantaneous.

The 480i YCbCr output is correctly decoded by the Rec 601 decoding matrix. I don't know if upscaled YCbCr is twisted to Rec 709 in the upconversion.

At 480P YCbCr there was some pixel cropping or image shifting at the Top and Right sides of the image when feeding an Infocus SP7200.

At 720P YCbCr, it was more severe with 2" Black Bars on the Top, Bottom, and Right sides of the image. This was with DVE test patterns. I haven't played an actual DVD to see if it happens with that too, but I presume that it will.

No problems like this at 480i YCbCr. Other than that I can't evaluate the PQ at 480i because the Infocus , though it will accept 480i on its DVI input, does not handle it correctly and produces an image with some screen flicker. It looks like a computor monitor does when run at 60hz vs 72hz or faster.

The image shifting problems might be the Infocus inability to properly handle video that is non-standard for DVI. I will try it out on a display that has HDMI inputs to check.

Glenn
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post #116 of 239 Old 05-26-2006, 10:24 PM
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Glenn,


Thanx for the report.

We really do need a few good 480i HDMI transports.
Please keep us posted of your findings.

No BTB?
Bummer...

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post #117 of 239 Old 05-27-2006, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenned View Post

It has two selections for HDMI Color:
"Full range RGB" outputs digital video in the PC signal standard
"RGB" outputs digital video in the Video signal standard (16-235).

It does not pass Blacker than Black. It does pass Whiter than White.

Great report, Glenn. Thx so much.

I prefer to calibrate my DVD and display using the DVE black level adjustment, which puts value 16 at 100% black. This is probably the correct setting for about 95% of the DVDs out there, so the 490V's inability to pass BTB is really not a huge issue for me.

Perhaps an imperfect, but acceptable, solution for those who prefer to see value 16 as dark gray, is to switch to "Full Range RGB" and re-tweak their display's black and white levels to compress the extended 0-255 range?

/steve
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post #118 of 239 Old 05-27-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L View Post

Great report, Glenn. Thx so much.

I prefer to calibrate my DVD and display using the DVE black level adjustment, which puts value 16 at 100% black. This is probably the correct setting for about 95% of the DVDs out there, so the 490V's inability to pass BTB is really not a huge issue for me.

Perhaps an imperfect, but acceptable, solution for those who prefer to see value 16 as dark gray, is to switch to "Full Range RGB" and re-tweak their display's black and white levels to compress the extended 0-255 range?

/steve

Your Welcome.

Actually, the code 16,16,16 is the signal for Black for all sources mastered to the digital Video signal standard, which includes all DVDs and all digital video broadcasts whether off-air, cable, or satelite.

If you set the DVD player to output video in the PC signal standard, the player scales 16,16,16 to 0,0,0 and 235,235,235 (White) to 255,255,255. All the values in the video signal which are close to 16 and 235 are rescaled so that they are below 16 and above 235. Which shoves them below Black and Above White. The result is that all signals with those values disappear from the video image because they are all displayed as Black or White. All shadow details and all highlite details disappear.

Video is mastered to the Video signal standard and all sources and displays should be designed to that standard. Even PC's are moving to that standard via Microsofts cooperation with the ISF in designing future versions of Windows.

Glenn
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post #119 of 239 Old 05-27-2006, 01:12 PM
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http://www.intersil.com/data/an/an9717.pdf is a nice short PDF on converting RGB to YCbCr and vice versa. Very straight forward. I didn't know where to stick this cause it comes up here and there.

larry

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post #120 of 239 Old 05-27-2006, 02:55 PM
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Don't know if you are still looking for player options, but my Yamaha 950 can do :

480i
480p
576p (pal hd)
720p
1080i
auto

I have been very happy with this player so far. It also gives the added benefits of being a 5 disc player, DVD-Audio, SACD, MP3, NTSC and PAL formats with HDMI and component outputs.

_________
Mark
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