Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 134 - AVS Forum
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post #3991 of 4938 Old 01-06-2009, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

While the Denon is a nice unit, you should remember that the unit is a two year old design. Some of the newer players may be a better designed unit. While the 3930 was a state of art when released, i think the current high end players may have equaled or surpassed the Denon in performance.

Which newer players? For video performance in DVD players, the Silicon Optix and ABT chips(ets) are still top dogs. Comparing the two is splitting hairs. The other chips are only found in video processors/scalers.

larry

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post #3992 of 4938 Old 01-06-2009, 12:18 PM
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Their Denon Link can only be used with DENON receivers. Also, they never upgraded to HDMI 1.2A, adding pure DSD via HDMI for playback on a wide variety of receivers, or better yet, 1.3A with PQLS! Although for video, the experts claim they're top notch. For audio however, the Onkyo DV-SP506 and Pioneer Elite DV-58AV use the Burr-Brown PCM1796 DACs in the Denon DVD3930CI, as well as HDMI 1.2A DSD output. I own a Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. If I couldn't have gotten one of those for whatever reason, I would probibly have been happy with the Onkyo DV-SP506. So if you are looking for a high quality, yet more recent design, you should check out one of the models I mentioned above.
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post #3993 of 4938 Old 01-06-2009, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

still top dogs

hey Pooper:
do you actually use a DVD-3930CI in your set-up? If so how has your unit operated over time?
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post #3994 of 4938 Old 01-07-2009, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Their Denon Link can only be used with DENON receivers. Also, they never upgraded to HDMI 1.2A, adding pure DSD via HDMI for playback on a wide variety of receivers, or better yet, 1.3A with PQLS! Although for video, the experts claim they're top notch. For audio however, the Onkyo DV-SP506 and Pioneer Elite DV-58AV use the Burr-Brown PCM1796 DACs in the Denon DVD3930CI, as well as HDMI 1.2A DSD output. I own a Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. If I couldn't have gotten one of those for whatever reason, I would probibly have been happy with the Onkyo DV-SP506. So if you are looking for a high quality, yet more recent design, you should check out one of the models I mentioned above.

Pioneer Elite DV-58AV and Onkyo DV-SP506 are using Taiwan MT1389EXE chips which is same as low end DVD players...such as DV-610S, DV-600, the picture quality is much lower than DVD-3930. I owned DV-LX50(Same as DV-58AV) before.

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post #3995 of 4938 Old 01-07-2009, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

hey Pooper:
do you actually use a DVD-3930CI in your set-up? If so how has your unit operated over time?

No. I'm just going by the measurements done on the various players that use the chips. I don't need "fancy" video processing in a player since I have a external video processor.

larry

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post #3996 of 4938 Old 01-07-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

No. I'm just going by the measurements done on the various players that use the chips. I don't need "fancy" video processing in a player since I have a external video processor.

larry

That's the way I'm thinking at this point. The 2930 might make a nice CD player, though I'm thinking a dedicated unit would sound better since I understand clock speed in a DVD-based drive isn't the same as in a CD drive, which may affect CD performance negatively.
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post #3997 of 4938 Old 01-09-2009, 02:22 AM
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In my DVD2930CI I can activate the random play and repeat functions at the same time using SACD discs. On the other hand, when I listen to CDs, I am not able to activate both functions at the same time, but they work alone. Is it normal to 2930CI and 3930CI?

I checked other 2930 unit and it presented the same behavior. It is clear now that it is a firmware problem. Same behavior for 3930?
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post #3998 of 4938 Old 01-10-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Which newer players? For video performance in DVD players, the Silicon Optix and ABT chips(ets) are still top dogs. Comparing the two is splitting hairs. The other chips are only found in video processors/scalers.

larry

IMHO, the new Pioneer BDP-05FD/BDP-051 and probably the BDP-09FD/BDP-LX091 are superior to the Denon in upscaling SD-DVDs to 1080P. The HQV Realta/Reon processors are still excellent, but they are three year old chips.

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post #3999 of 4938 Old 01-11-2009, 04:28 AM
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IF INDEED the Pioneer Blu Rays could deliver qualifiably brilliant SD-DVD image, I would not have taken a Denon 5910 because its three times the price. I would've saved a couple thousands. But the stubborn, unsinkable fact is that Pioneer created those models as mainly BR players, not state of the art DVD upconverters. No authority has ever commented that those Pioneers also delivers killer DVD playback, if Pioneer does it would've touted this as one of its marketing point. The fact is Blu Ray players are not yet manufactured to be honestly good for both tasks - you can by all means take a reference-grade Blu Ray but the DVD is total bunk; or, you can have both but you need to pay in excess of a thousand dollars for that - and only Denon and Marantz puts out these models. And they're not priced in a populist-oriented way, a shame. Even the upconversion comments about the now obsolete Toshiba XA-1 with its HQV Reon can be promptly demolished as its DVD playback is not even on par with the Denon 2930.

There might be new upconversion technology lurking around the R & D corner somewhere that could shamed the HQV Realta or DVDO scaling - but I've not seen it yet, nor heard anything. So until that is unleashed, the Realta remains the reference.
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post #4000 of 4938 Old 01-11-2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

IMHO, the new Pioneer BDP-05FD/BDP-051 and probably the BDP-09FD/BDP-LX091 are superior to the Denon in upscaling SD-DVDs to 1080P. The HQV Realta/Reon processors are still excellent, but they are three year old chips.

How did you measure? The "old" HQV chips pretty much handled any SD deinterlacing test thrown at them and scaled well. I'm curious to see how the "new" chips (what are they?) do to surpass them. Some new being sold in players today don't deinterlace as well as some did 5 years ago. Unfortunately, since Kris stop doing Secrets reviews our source for good objective reviews dried up. There's been on benchmark test since he left - the Denon 2500 which didn't fair to well with SD video performance.

larry

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post #4001 of 4938 Old 01-11-2009, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CULTURECLUB68 View Post

IF INDEED the Pioneer Blu Rays could deliver qualifiably brilliant SD-DVD image, I would not have taken a Denon 5910 because its three times the price. I would've saved a couple thousands. Even the upconversion comments about the now obsolete Toshiba XA-1 with its HQV Reon can be promptly demolished as its DVD playback is not even on par with the Denon 2930.

I have never tried the 5910 so I can't comment on the upconversion on it vs. the newer 2930. I tried the 2910 and it wasn't nearly as good as the 2930 for SD DVD PQ playback - not sure how a 2930 compares with a 5910. I can however comment on the 2930 vs. a Sony S5000es BR player. I did a very careful comparison and out of the box they are about the same in quality although they look slightly different - each offering some qualities out of the box that are different but overall they are about the same. Tweak the 2930 and it is better than the S5000es. Tweak the S5000ES however and the tweaked picture quality for SD DVD is better than a tweaked 2930. So perhaps the Pioneer 09 BR player will also be able to beat the 2930 - only an official release will make a comparison possible.
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post #4002 of 4938 Old 01-11-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CULTURECLUB68 View Post

IF INDEED the Pioneer Blu Rays could deliver qualifiably brilliant SD-DVD image, I would not have taken a Denon 5910 because its three times the price. I would've saved a couple thousands. But the stubborn, unsinkable fact is that Pioneer created those models as mainly BR players, not state of the art DVD upconverters. No authority has ever commented that those Pioneers also delivers killer DVD playback, if Pioneer does it would've touted this as one of its marketing point. The fact is Blu Ray players are not yet manufactured to be honestly good for both tasks - you can by all means take a reference-grade Blu Ray but the DVD is total bunk; or, you can have both but you need to pay in excess of a thousand dollars for that - and only Denon and Marantz puts out these models. And they're not priced in a populist-oriented way, a shame. Even the upconversion comments about the now obsolete Toshiba XA-1 with its HQV Reon can be promptly demolished as its DVD playback is not even on par with the Denon 2930.

There might be new upconversion technology lurking around the R & D corner somewhere that could shamed the HQV Realta or DVDO scaling - but I've not seen it yet, nor heard anything. So until that is unleashed, the Realta remains the reference.

The HD-XA2 used the Reon and if the 2930 performs the same as the 3930, then the 2930 doesn't filter ICP very well, if at all. This would make it perform not quite as well as the XA2 for SD DVD.

larry

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post #4003 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 08:13 AM
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I'm new to this site so I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place but I had read on here the many problems with the laser head unit on the 2930 (& 3930). I obtained a 2930 that was going to the landfill and so I decided to replace the laser unit. You don't need to pay $80 to $100 to Denon for the replacement unit or $300 for the whole job. After working with a great Ebay seller in Tawain, the 2930CI takes a Sanyo SF-HD65 laser unit which is sold for $12-$14 plus $6 shipping. As a new poster I can't post a link but search SF-HD65 on Ebay and several sources will come up. I used "supermanmeliu" because he was so helpful in determining which unit I needed. He is just a little more expensive than some of the others.

We exchanged pictures of the head (the SF-HD65 is engraved printed very tiny on the bottom of the laser head) to verify it was correct before I purchased. Replacing it is easy; several screws to remove the players main cover, top plate and drive cover. Then you can see the laser head easily. Prior to installing the new laser, you have to remove a little solder "blob" (with your solder iron and a little copper braid-instructions are all over Google under "desoldering") on the new laser unit (it is shipped with this protective solder blob on the diode so it doesn't short out from static electricity). No soldering for the actual install, just a little mechanical exercise. It is all very easy and much better than the $300 repair estimate to do it at the dealer for an out-of warranty 2930CI. I'm sure that you can probably do the same to the 3930CI using the same steps I did in finding the correct model laser head. If these Denon players are prone to this malfunction and the fix is $12-$18, there is probably lots of players out there that could be saved (or bought for cheap and given new life). What it says about Denon using that cheap a laser unit I don't know, but I sure am enjoying my "new" 2930! If you're not the fix-it type, you can probably get this done at a shop (or by a capable friend) once you have the replacement part for a 1 hour labor charge. Good luck!
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post #4004 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 09:01 AM
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I'm new to this site so I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place but I had read on here the many problems with the laser head unit on the 2930 (& 3930). I obtained a 2930 that was going to the landfill and so I decided to replace the laser unit. You don't need to pay $80 to $100 to Denon for the replacement unit or $300 for the whole job. After working with a great Ebay seller in Tawain, the 2930CI takes a Sanyo SF-HD65 laser unit which is sold for $12-$14 plus $6 shipping. As a new poster I can't post a link but search SF-HD65 on Ebay and several sources will come up. I used "supermanmeliu" because he was so helpful in determining which unit I needed. He is just a little more expensive than some of the others.

We exchanged pictures of the head (the SF-HD65 is engraved printed very tiny on the bottom of the laser head) to verify it was correct before I purchased. Replacing it is easy; several screws to remove the players main cover, top plate and drive cover. Then you can see the laser head easily. Prior to installing the new laser, you have to remove a little solder "blob" (with your solder iron and a little copper braid-instructions are all over Google under "desoldering") on the new laser unit (it is shipped with this protective solder blob on the diode so it doesn't short out from static electricity). No soldering for the actual install, just a little mechanical exercise. It is all very easy and much better than the $300 repair estimate to do it at the dealer for an out-of warranty 2930CI. I'm sure that you can probably do the same to the 3930CI using the same steps I did in finding the correct model laser head. If these Denon players are prone to this malfunction and the fix is $12-$18, there is probably lots of players out there that could be saved (or bought for cheap and given new life). What it says about Denon using that cheap a laser unit I don't know, but I sure am enjoying my "new" 2930! If you're not the fix-it type, you can probably get this done at a shop (or by a capable friend) once you have the replacement part for a 1 hour labor charge. Good luck!

Yes, you are right! I did this replacement in my (new!!!) player some months ago. The 2930 uses a very cheap Chinese laser head, the same of several cheap DVD payers in the market. The good point is that this unit is cheap and easy to find. The bad point is the several problems reported. Denon doesn’t recommend changing only the laser head because it is necessary mechanical alignment with special equipment. I had no problems with my 2930CI. In my point of view, it’s a good option ($$$).

By the way, could you answer this question for me?

In my DVD2930CI I can activate the random play and repeat functions at the same time using SACD discs. On the other hand, when I listen to CDs, I am not able to activate both functions at the same time, but they work alone. Is it normal to 2930CI and 3930CI?

Thank you!
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post #4005 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 09:30 AM
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Sorry, I've just gotten mine up and running so I'm not familiar with it enough to know your answer...good luck!
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post #4006 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 09:35 AM
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Also, I'm thinking Denon doesn't recommend this repair because they will miss out on the repair $$ gravy train. There is no mechanical adjustment, alignment or other step needed (if you look at the setup it is entirely mechanical with no error possible on the replacement). You have done it and so have I so I guess that verifies it...
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post #4007 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bhwarchitect View Post

Also, I'm thinking Denon doesn't recommend this repair because they will miss out on the repair $$ gravy train. There is no mechanical adjustment, alignment or other step needed (if you look at the setup it is entirely mechanical with no error possible on the replacement). You have done it and so have I so I guess that verifies it...

All the DVD mechanisms have screws for laser tilt and tangential adjustment. If you look with care, you'll find 3 small hex screws to adjust the inclination of the laser head rails. These screws are factory adjusted and they have to be readjusted after the laser replacement for optimal performance. Many service manuals describe adjustment processes, but it is not the case of Denon that recommends replacing the complete traverse unit ($$$).
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post #4008 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 12:20 PM
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I didn't know that. Do you have a Denon Service manual for the 2930? I would be interested in getting one if you have a source. Maybe I was lucky but my DVD's look perfect to me (at HDMI 1080p setting) after the laser head replacement. I found two screws on the old head but not three. Are the 3 adjustment screws you are referring to on the actual laser head assembly itself or on the players mounting rails mechanism somewhere? Were you able to adjust yours or was it OK after just replacement of the head?
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post #4009 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 02:37 PM
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For those that are interested, I did a quick search. The traverse unit for the 2930 is part number #9KA2A693 and is available for $81.

The traverse unit for the 3930 is part number #9KA2A692 and is available for $111.
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post #4010 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 02:41 PM
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The service manual is available here ($28).
http://www.partstore.com/Model/Denon...DVD2930CI.aspx
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post #4011 of 4938 Old 01-14-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunz View Post

All the DVD mechanisms have screws for laser tilt and tangential adjustment. If you look with care, you'll find 3 small hex screws to adjust the inclination of the laser head rails. These screws are factory adjusted and they have to be readjusted after the laser replacement for optimal performance.

Could it be a possibility that this is the cause of many laser problems - instead of replacing the head, just realign it?
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post #4012 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bhwarchitect View Post

I didn't know that. Do you have a Denon Service manual for the 2930? I would be interested in getting one if you have a source. Maybe I was lucky but my DVD's look perfect to me (at HDMI 1080p setting) after the laser head replacement. I found two screws on the old head but not three. Are the 3 adjustment screws you are referring to on the actual laser head assembly itself or on the players mounting rails mechanism somewhere? Were you able to adjust yours or was it OK after just replacement of the head?

The only adjusts in the laser head are the trimpots for lasers (DVD and CD) current. The adjust is very critical and is made by the head manufacturer for the optimal lasers operation point. The mechanical alignment screws are located at the end of each head rail. There is no description for the adjustment in Denon service manuals. In fact, it needs a special test disc and a way to measure the error rate. If yor player is working 100% a recomend not change the position of the adjustment screws.
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post #4013 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 02:36 AM
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Could it be a possibility that this is the cause of many laser problems - instead of replacing the head, just realign it?

Most of problems are due to laser head problems and not to alignment. The change of the laser head without mechanical alignment can work well in many cases. I strongly recommend not change the mechanical alignment. Another important point is that laser heads are very sensitive to ESD (Electro Static Discharge) and need special care to be handled.

Could you answer this question for me?

In my DVD2930CI I can activate the random play and repeat functions at the same time using SACD discs. On the other hand, when I listen to CDs, I am not able to activate both functions at the same time, but they work alone. Is it normal to 2930CI and 3930CI?

Thank you!
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post #4014 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 05:38 AM
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this morning my 2930 would not read the dvd audio discs,it would only show the dolby digital or dts audio selections,i have another dvd-audio player so i popped the discs into that player and sure enough,the correct menus came up.what gives ? superaudio cds play fine,multichannel ,2 channel etc.i checked the settings in the setup menu,but still nothing.maybe one of you have heard of this problem?or can go over the correct setup positions for the 2930 to play dvd-audio,i use both 5.1 analog outs and hdmi,and i think the 2930 can pass dvd-audio thru the hdmi?I no to pass superaudio cd you go thru 5.1 outs ..............anyhelp would be great.....randy
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post #4015 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:02 AM
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this morning my 2930 would not read the dvd audio discs,it would only show the dolby digital or dts audio selections,i have another dvd-audio player so i popped the discs into that player and sure enough,the correct menus came up.what gives ? superaudio cds play fine,multichannel ,2 channel etc.i checked the settings in the setup menu,but still nothing.maybe one of you have heard of this problem?or can go over the correct setup positions for the 2930 to play dvd-audio,i use both 5.1 analog outs and hdmi,and i think the 2930 can pass dvd-audio thru the hdmi?I no to pass superaudio cd you go thru 5.1 outs ..............anyhelp would be great.....randy

If you search the thread you'll find that inability to read SACD or DVD-A discs is usually the first sign of a optical problem with the player.

However, you might try cleaning the lens first by blowing some compressed air into the unit; it might just be some dust.
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post #4016 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Crazy, but perhaps I might get a 3930 for CD only. Another thought.

There are many, many much better CD-only players on the market.

Unless you're getting a smoking deal on the 3930, you're much better off going the audio player route.
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post #4017 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by maphiker View Post

For those that are interested, I did a quick search. The traverse unit for the 2930 is part number #9KA2A693 and is available for $81.

The traverse unit for the 3930 is part number #9KA2A692 and is available for $111.

Where did you do that search and where did you find the aforementioned part?
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post #4018 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by tuscany View Post

this morning my 2930 would not read the dvd audio discs,it would only show the dolby digital or dts audio selections,i have another dvd-audio player so i popped the discs into that player and sure enough,the correct menus came up.what gives ? superaudio cds play fine,multichannel ,2 channel etc.i checked the settings in the setup menu,but still nothing.maybe one of you have heard of this problem?or can go over the correct setup positions for the 2930 to play dvd-audio,i use both 5.1 analog outs and hdmi,and i think the 2930 can pass dvd-audio thru the hdmi?I no to pass superaudio cd you go thru 5.1 outs ..............anyhelp would be great.....randy

In the "special settings" menu, "player mode" should be set to "audio" when listening to the high res tracks on DVDAs. If this setting is on "video," it would explain the behavior you are seeing.
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post #4019 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

Where did you do that search and where did you find the aforementioned part?

Google is your friend

Check this site, it is a little cheaper for the parts.
http://www.partstore.com/Model/Denon...DVD2930CI.aspx
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post #4020 of 4938 Old 01-15-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

There are many, many much better CD-only players on the market.

Unless you're getting a smoking deal on the 3930, you're much better off going the audio player route.

Such as, in the price range of a new or slightly used '3930CI?
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