Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 151 - AVS Forum
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post #4501 of 4938 Old 11-24-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post
As a favor to your fellow owners of the this player and the other good readers of this thread, could you tell us about that method to test the lasers via the front panel buttons?
OK for those of you with nerves of steel.... I don't recommend doing this but enclosed is the method to check the laser current. It is suggested to replace the traverse mechanism (laser) if the present value exceeds the initial value by 150%.

My instructions are to the best of my understanding. I don't recommend playing around in the TEST MODE as you may inadvertently change something you shouldn't.

 

Check laser current.txt 1.0673828125k . file
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post #4502 of 4938 Old 11-24-2009, 08:36 PM
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I have had my 3930 for over a year now and have only used it for upscaling dvd's. There are several concerts being released in the UK on DVD that I would love to own, which will probably not be released here (Michael Ball in concert). Can anyone tell me if this player will play PAL discs to my Epson 1080 projector(which plays PAL) and will it play a region 2 coded disc? I am assuming it will play the PAL disc because I've heard it does but unsure of the region 2 problem. Thanks.
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post #4503 of 4938 Old 11-24-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I have had my 3930 for over a year now and have only used it for upscaling dvd's. There are several concerts being released in the UK on DVD that I would love to own, which will probably not be released here (Michael Ball in concert). Can anyone tell me if this player will play PAL discs to my Epson 1080 projector(which plays PAL) and will it play a region 2 coded disc? I am assuming it will play the PAL disc because I've heard it does but unsure of the region 2 problem. Thanks.

You will need to apply the region free hack. Instructions are in this thread. Do a search.
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post #4504 of 4938 Old 11-24-2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maphiker View Post

You will need to apply the region free hack. Instructions are in this thread. Do a search.

Thanks Maphiker...I could only find these instructions and they are for the 2930, are they the same for the 3930?

1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. With the unit on (green light, not red), power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Still/Pause buttons on the front panel (not remote).
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button, hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press Stop and Skip Forward (>>I) simultaneously on the front panel . The front panel will briefly display Region_A1.
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post #4505 of 4938 Old 11-24-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Thanks Maphiker...I could only find these instructions and they are for the 2930, are they the same for the 3930?

Yes.
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post #4506 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

I just have bought a spare SF-HD65 but I didn't receive it yet. The connector in the pic looks like is the type that is just pushed in there, no locks on the sides. I will know more when I get mine.

Thank you for your help, I too have ordered one and will let you know about the results.

Alain
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post #4507 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maphiker View Post

OK for those of you with nerves of steel.... I don't recommend doing this but enclosed is the method to check the laser current. It is suggested to replace the traverse mechanism (laser) if the present value exceeds the initial value by 150%.

My instructions are to the best of my understanding. I don't recommend playing around in the TEST MODE as you may inadvertently change something you shouldn't.

Ok, so after trying to play some SACD's today and only getting the 2-ch mixes to play instead of the Multi-Ch I started scouring this thread and believe that I need to replace the Laser assembly. I performed T22 on my 2930 and came up with a reading of 3266:0076 which I am reading as the unit had 32.66 milliamps initially and now has 0.76 milliamps to the laser head. If so, this would explain a lot of the players behavoir, not reading the M CH on SACD and locking up the unit in the middle of DVD movies.

Post warranty, I should be able to replace on my own, just a question about whether the $10-15 parts are the same Sanyo head unit like the Traverse unit from Partstore.com that runs $70?
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post #4508 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JwS View Post

Post warranty, I should be able to replace on my own, just a question about whether the $10-15 parts are the same Sanyo head unit like the Traverse unit from Partstore.com that runs $70?

Several people have reported here that the Sanyo laser head replacement works. IMHO, for $10 you won't lose much by first replacing the laser.
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post #4509 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JwS View Post

Ok, so after trying to play some SACD's today and only getting the 2-ch mixes to play instead of the Multi-Ch I started scouring this thread and believe that I need to replace the Laser assembly. I performed T22 on my 2930 and came up with a reading of 3266:0076 which I am reading as the unit had 32.66 milliamps initially and now has 0.76 milliamps to the laser head. If so, this would explain a lot of the players behavoir, not reading the M CH on SACD and locking up the unit in the middle of DVD movies.

Do me a favor? Do the T22 without inserting a disc, just close the tray. I'm not sure the disc is necessary. I got some very low milliamps with the disc but the milliamps increased slowly on a second try. Without the disk, I got higher numbers.
Thanks.
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post #4510 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maphiker View Post

Do me a favor? Do the T22 without inserting a disc, just close the tray. I'm not sure the disc is necessary. I got some very low milliamps with the disc but the milliamps increased slowly on a second try. Without the disk, I got higher numbers.
Thanks.

Well that is really different without a disc in the machine. 3266:3453 (no disc). Reading in previous post was while Armagedon CC was at the menu screen. Actually withouth a disc in the drive the 2nd (current) amperage keeps increasing, now up to 3641 as i continue to type on the laptop. Only a 6 -10% increase over the original.
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post #4511 of 4938 Old 11-25-2009, 09:31 PM
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That's what I have on my new 2930 - Initial 3266, nodisc settles at 3898. It reads ok.
I have ordered just the Sanyo laser head to have it around - was 10$ on eBay.
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post #4512 of 4938 Old 11-26-2009, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JwS View Post

Well that is really different without a disc in the machine. 3266:3453 (no disc). Reading in previous post was while Armagedon CC was at the menu screen. Actually withouth a disc in the drive the 2nd (current) amperage keeps increasing, now up to 3641 as i continue to type on the laptop. Only a 6 -10% increase over the original.

Thanks. I am guessing that the proper way to test the laser is without the disk. The English translation of the Japanese service manual is quite poor. I have changed the instructions enclosed in my post above. Also, I don't know if I made it clear. There are two laser tests, one for the CD laser and one for the DVD laser. Have you tried both?

The service manual also states that the function of the laser should be checked by an extensive set of tests involving connecting an oscilloscope to the circuit boards and observing the "high frequency wave forms." Thus I imagine that only checking the laser current may not be sufficient to show proper performance. But this is just a guess.

BTW, some on this forum have improved performance by cleaning the laser. I assume you have tried this.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
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post #4513 of 4938 Old 11-26-2009, 02:21 PM
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Dear Forum Users,

I've read the WHOLE thread, I swear... I read the WHOLE thread...


But still I have som questions about the 2930ci.. Maybe you guys can help me...

1- Is the audio quality better in the stereo out or is it the same in 5.1 out?

2- The manual says AL24 is available for all connectors (pg 46 of manual), however I've read people saying it is only in the stereo out, is it?

Thank you!

Listening is the best experience.
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post #4514 of 4938 Old 11-26-2009, 03:35 PM
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1. "AL24 Processing Plus" (from DVD-2930) is available on all the outputs and it is different from AL24. But only for 16 bit signals, excepting the HDCD format. That means for CD, DTS-CD, DVD-Video DolbyDigital and DTS. It interpolates the 16bit/44.1-48kHz signal to a 24bit/192kHz one with a proprietary(?) method using an "adaptive digital filter".
2. The stereo analog only output has slightly better specs OpAmps that the multichannel one. NJM 2068MD on stereo versus BA15218F on multi for the US/EU version. The japan version has different stereo out: BA15218 for the IV stages followed by OP275 in the filter.
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post #4515 of 4938 Old 11-26-2009, 06:54 PM
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hmmm


I dont get it... so basically the stereo OUT should produce better sound?

Listening is the best experience.
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post #4516 of 4938 Old 11-27-2009, 03:40 AM
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Well, yes, theoretically. If you can tell the difference (real one not a placebo), let us know
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post #4517 of 4938 Old 11-27-2009, 08:06 PM
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Dear SoNic67,

thank you for you info on the Op-Amps, actually I even had the chance to learn some aspect about op-amps, google is ineed a good friend...

Well...


After reading from google I tried a little A-B test, I have used the following CDs and SACDs:

- CD Maastricht Salon Orchestra - Serenata - Gold CD - Philips Record
- CD Pavarotti Forever - Decca
- SACD Rodrigo Concierto de Aranjuez & The Romeros - Mercury
- SACD Emi Fujita - Camomile Best Audio
- SACD Miles Davis - Kind of Blue - Japanese Import...

Before someone asks, my system is:

- HK 254 (used as processor);
- Rotel RB-1080 Amp;
- Rotel RB-993 Amp;
- Denon 2930ci;
- Denon 3800bdci;
- B&W 705
- B&W HTM7;
- B&W LM-1;
- Velodyne DLS-4000r.

I started with Emi Fujita's album, for those who never listened to her songs listen here.

Most of her music is pretty low in bass, so basically I could not tell too much difference from the 5.1 outs and the stereo out.

However since it is a SACD (multi-ch SACD), the mixing is pretty nice, so yes I favoured the 5.1 best, the music gets a bit of depth, which is some what nice.

In the stereo form, even tho we loose the 5.1 ability, the sound is good, but I noticed something WAS different, but I at that point I didnt know what was different...

Then I tried the Pavarotti CD, and thats when I REALLY started hearing the differences...

Actually not only the Pavarotti CD, but all music that requires a bit more "bass" ....

The HK254, do not apply the crossover when using the 6/8 in, and in stereo in, even when we use the tone off option, which the manual says the sound would go without any modification to the volume control, the sound WAS better (to my ears) thru stereo out...

Maybe it is 254 fault for not applying the crossover to 6/8 channel in, or maybe it is me who just dont know how to properly set-up things... However, I tried all the possible configurations... Turning on and off the 50khz-100khz in the 2930ci source direct, I tried speaker configuration in both denon and hk, I tried the +10 subwoofer option in the 2930ci, but no avail.. THE BASS IS LACKING.. A LOT...

So for me it is impossible to say that I liked the 5.1 more, I decided to leave the 2930 connected using the stereo outs...

I will miss the 5.1 mixes, but.. the stereo sound is just better...

I even tried with movies, the bass and subwoofer gets a lot better when NOT using the 6/8, I discovered that it is either the 2930 that sends low subwoofer signal or it is the 254 that lowers the subwoofer when using 6/8 channel!

So in the end, for movies I will use HDMI sound (bitstream) and for music, the stereo out.

Hope I did not sound too.. hmmm... un-experienced (well I am!!)... You know sometimes I feel dumb and ashamed posting in a forum where people have a VAST knowledge of audio.

Listening is the best experience.
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post #4518 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 07:15 AM
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Did you try to compare the L/R outs with the LF and LR outs from the 5.1 via the Rotel amp (listening to a stereo program obviously)?

I tend to blaim the HK for that - its the old problem with the LFE channel 10dB higher than the rest of the channels and HK doesn't have that compesation on the analog outs.
Also, if you select 50kHz or 100kHz Direct filter, the bass management inside 2930 is canceled.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/howto/805bass/index1.html
Quote:


Thus, most controllers do not convert their multichannel analog inputs to digital, or run them through bass management. This task is left to the disc player, most of which don't have enough DSP horsepower to provide filters as advanced as those in controllers. In fact, some players do not even provide the option of setting all the main speakers to Small-the front speakers are often restricted to Large. Furthermore, the digital-to-analog (D/A) converters on disc players' subwoofer outputs often do not have enough headroom to output bass at sufficiently high levels. The level of the subwoofer output is usually reduced by either 10dB (for a player without bass management) or 15dB (for a player with bass management), with the expectation that the signal will be boosted by the controller. This is all well and good except that many controllers are not set up to apply that boost to their analog subwoofer inputs!
The current solution to both of these problems is to set all the outputs of a disc player to Large and insert an external bass-management device between the player and the controller. (Bass-management devices are available from Outlaw Audio and Miller & Kreisel, among others.) It's not a very appetizing thought, but it's a heck of a lot better than lacking highpass filters for the front speakers or having bass that's 15dB too low!
Fortunately, there is another solution on the horizon. Universal digital interfaces, like FireWire, that can carry PPCM and DSD are appearing on the latest crop of disc players and AV controllers. If the external bass-management box is a turn-off, reach for these new players and controllers, which bass management for PPCM and DSD works just like it does for other digital-audio formats.

I own for now a HK AVR 220 and I will get soon a Denon 3805 soon (paid for on eBay, fingers crossed), hoping to have a better connection than analog.
You have better amps on stereo and your speakers are better than mine so... I appreciate your findings. I was tempted to give out to the temptation to replace all OpAmps on the 5.1 path (loosing the warranty) but I will try the DenonLink first (when I get the 3805).
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post #4519 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 10:08 AM
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Sorry to butt in. I just have to say, "the Denon Link" is awsome!" (IMHO)
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post #4520 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 10:46 AM
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New firmware for DVD-2390CI. Burn on a CD (with the folder named as it is), place on tray and wait to complete. I got it from Denon USA, use it on your risc. It worked on mine.
ver. BE 8283-F
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post #4521 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

New firmware for DVD-2390CI. Burn on a CD (with the folder named as it is), place on tray and wait to complete. I got it from Denon USA, use it on your risc. It worked on mine.
ver. BE 8283-F

Thanks for the upload.

Mike T

My BDP-05FD, still going strong and still my favorite player!

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post #4522 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

New firmware for DVD-2390CI. Burn on a CD (with the folder named as it is), place on tray and wait to complete. I got it from Denon USA, use it on your risc. It worked on mine.
ver. BE 8283-F

any changelog available?

Will this one work with EU models? I think all players comes with universal firmware (but region locked), but better safe than sorry
Latest on the EU site is GEN8283-E_C09_DVD2930CI_2930
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post #4523 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 01:54 PM
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Well, I have unlocked mine and the last number in that long number is the region (8 means region free, other numbers are other regions) so I am 99.99% sure they have the same firmware. They didn't give me a changelog thou... sorry.
I have installed previously the "E" firmware from EU on my US player and worked fine.
If you feel unsure, contact the Denon rep. in your area. The US rep. are very quick and knowledgeable.
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post #4524 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Did you try to compare the L/R outs with the LF and LR outs from the 5.1 via the Rotel amp (listening to a stereo program obviously)?

I tend to blaim the HK for that - its the old problem with the LFE channel 10dB higher than the rest of the channels and HK doesn't have that compesation on the analog outs.
Also, if you select 50kHz or 100kHz Direct filter, the bass management inside 2930 is canceled.

Well I tried both, the Denon does apply the proper cross-over point cut. So using the stereo analog, the HK applies the proper crossover. Using LF/LR gives no bass at all since the denon filters it.

And yes... I tried connecting the subwoofer directly to the Denon, and it works beautifully!!

I knew about the 50khz/100khz direct filter, but activating that or not, does nt give me the proper subwoofer level.

Funny is that the denon DOES have the +10db increase, however it has little effect on the HK.


Listening is the best experience.
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post #4525 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 05:47 PM
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Well, HK applies the bass management only for the stereo inputs (those are converterd to PCM and send to the DSP) and for the digital inputs (SPDIF, they are fed to the DSP too). The 5.1 analog inputs are connected straight to the final stages, no DSP, no correction (not even the front pannel ones) is involved there.

If you set in Denon the speakers for the FR/FL to "LARGE", it shouldn't filter/crossover the bass. To set that up, you should not be in 50kZ or 100kHz modes. Also, leave the HDMI audio on "Stereo" before anything - for some reason, outputing 5.1 HDMI is not possible simultaneous with 5.1 analog.
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post #4526 of 4938 Old 11-28-2009, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Well, HK applies the bass management only for the stereo inputs (those are converterd to PCM and send to the DSP) and for the digital inputs (SPDIF, they are fed to the DSP too). The 5.1 analog inputs are connected straight to the final stages, no DSP, no correction (not even the front pannel ones) is involved there.

If you set in Denon the speakers for the FR/FL to "LARGE", it shouldn't filter/crossover the bass. To set that up, you should not be in 50kZ or 100kHz modes. Also, leave the HDMI audio on "Stereo" before anything - for some reason, outputing 5.1 HDMI is not possible simultaneous with 5.1 analog.

hi!

I did all that!!! And the HK manual says that the stereo inputs are unchanged if you use the Tone Off, which is what I do!

Well Maybe its totally HK fault!

I will try it again soon!

Listening is the best experience.
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post #4527 of 4938 Old 11-29-2009, 05:33 PM
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Ok, here i have the Denon DVD-3930 Service Manual,
did get it from a other user, thanks fot that.

It's for all regio's and country's.

http://rapidshare.com/files/31407232...ice_Manual.rar

unrar the file and open the manual with something like acrobat reader.

Enjoy!, have a nice day.

Regards
Dutchman01

DENON AVR-4306
Firmware: Main ver. 01.00, Sub ver. 00.50, DSP ver. 00.04.

DENON DVD-3930
Firmware: BE 8284-A, Make Day C09, DSP 8250, IP 070518
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post #4528 of 4938 Old 11-29-2009, 08:06 PM
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Thank you! I see now the difference in the analog output (compared to 2390) - better DAC: PCM1796 VS PCM1791 with better output OpAmp stage (but still those BA15218, what's up with those?).
And this is the Denon DVD-2930CI manual (paid 10$ for it).
Enjoy!
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post #4529 of 4938 Old 11-29-2009, 09:31 PM
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And here for the tech people the datasheet of the Sanyo SF-HD65



http://rapidshare.com/files/31413372..._DATASHEET.pdf

Regards
Dutchman01

DENON AVR-4306
Firmware: Main ver. 01.00, Sub ver. 00.50, DSP ver. 00.04.

DENON DVD-3930
Firmware: BE 8284-A, Make Day C09, DSP 8250, IP 070518
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post #4530 of 4938 Old 11-30-2009, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

New firmware for DVD-2390CI. Burn on a CD (with the folder named as it is), place on tray and wait to complete. I got it from Denon USA, use it on your risc. It worked on mine.
ver. BE 8283-F

Thanks for the heads up on the firmware.

osd
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