Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 153 - AVS Forum
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post #4561 of 4938 Old 12-16-2009, 08:13 AM
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Well thank you kunz, this must be the place to put it back. I'll figure it.
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post #4562 of 4938 Old 12-18-2009, 02:50 PM
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I finally got around to setting up my new 2930 today. Things did not go well.

First of all, this machine seems to be among the SLOWEST unit I have ever used. Approx 10 seconds to "load" each single-layer DVD, more like 15 seconds for each dual-layer disc. Secondly, many discs attempted to load and after about 10 seconds the player would simply return to 'stop.' Of the discs that would load, several would freeze upon choosing the first menu option, only to 'stop' 20 seconds or so after freezing.

These issues were with a mix of original & copied NTSC & PAL discs that play perfectly on both of my other players, so I know the discs are proper. Also, these issues occurred with the original firmware (8283-9) and with again with both 8283-E and 8283-F.

Obviously the player is with UPS now, en route to Vanns for return/exchange/???.

My question for seasoned owners: aside from the freezing/stopping, is this player naturally slow? Also, is the player finicky with DVD+/-R DL discs?

FWIW, when a disc did play the picture and sound were both superb.

Thanks in advance for any information you can share with me

It Was Like That When I Got Here...
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post #4563 of 4938 Old 12-18-2009, 06:03 PM
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Mine take up to 20 seconds to load a DVD+R DL (longest time, the others are faster), while a Toshiba universal player takes 8 seconds. In my book, that is not something to cry about, since the video quality is better that anythig seen.
Now, the difference it is the connection HDMI on Denon, Component on Toshiba. HDMI is slower anyway because of the HDCP negotiation phase.
But... It never freezed on me or refuse to play.
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post #4564 of 4938 Old 12-18-2009, 08:56 PM
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My 3930 takes longer to load than other players and is slower in going into scan mode as well. I did call and discuss this with Denon when I got it last year, and the answer I got satisfied me somewhat. He told me that these players take a bit longer due to the processing done, for instance the 3930 has the HQV Realta, and it takes a few seconds for the signal to be processed. Maybe that was a wrong response from him but it made sense to me. Simple DVD players don't have much to contend with, so if anyone else wants to chime in on this response that I got, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Basically, for me, I don't mind waiting the extra time to see the gorgeous picture I get, by the time I am sitting down and situated it's showtime anyway, and I love the fact that I can play PAL discs that are region 2 coded on my Epson 1080 projector. I just ordered the 21 disc Laurel and Hardy DVD collection from the UK and was so happy when I was able to go through the steps on Wednesday and make my player an open region player. I can live with the extra time, but I would have a much harder time giving up the great picture I get from my DVD's and the benefits of the Denon.
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post #4565 of 4938 Old 12-19-2009, 04:39 AM
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Success!!
Like kunz said, the spring has its place between the laser unit and the white plastic "holder". So now my 3930 can play discs flowlessly, loading is faster than before and the machine is almost silent.
Thank you who showed the way.
For those with the same problem, my advice would be to remove the whole traverse unit before touching the laser part.

Alain
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post #4566 of 4938 Old 12-19-2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Mine take up to 20 seconds to load a DVD+R DL (longest time, the others are faster), while a Toshiba universal player takes 8 seconds. In my book, that is not something to cry about, since the video quality is better that anythig seen.
Now, the difference it is the connection HDMI on Denon, Component on Toshiba. HDMI is slower anyway because of the HDCP negotiation phase.
But... It never freezed on me or refuse to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

My 3930 takes longer to load than other players and is slower in going into scan mode as well. I did call and discuss this with Denon when I got it last year, and the answer I got satisfied me somewhat. He told me that these players take a bit longer due to the processing done, for instance the 3930 has the HQV Realta, and it takes a few seconds for the signal to be processed. Maybe that was a wrong response from him but it made sense to me. Simple DVD players don't have much to contend with, so if anyone else wants to chime in on this response that I got, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Basically, for me, I don't mind waiting the extra time to see the gorgeous picture I get, by the time I am sitting down and situated it's showtime anyway, and I love the fact that I can play PAL discs that are region 2 coded on my Epson 1080 projector. I just ordered the 21 disc Laurel and Hardy DVD collection from the UK and was so happy when I was able to go through the steps on Wednesday and make my player an open region player. I can live with the extra time, but I would have a much harder time giving up the great picture I get from my DVD's and the benefits of the Denon.

Thanks for replying. The load times, etc. do not bother at all. Heck, I own a Pioneer BDP-51 and don't consider it slow at all. I was just wanting to gauge whether or not the wait times I experienced were due to design or defect as I would like to get another 2930 to try.

I look forward to watching DVD+R DL PAL discs with some killer Reon video quality

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post #4567 of 4938 Old 12-19-2009, 01:03 PM
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I own one DVD-ROM disc Region 2 and it plays nice. Actually I have a network media player that can play HD content and 720p video encoded H.264 looks like the regular DVD's on my Denon DVD-2930 - after I have tweaked some of the video settings.
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post #4568 of 4938 Old 12-27-2009, 12:00 PM
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Anyone got any suggestions for a DIY fix to this problem? (I'll send it to Denon eventually but for now I'm looking for the cheap option.)

This week I noticed a problem where my 3930 played some dvds without issue while other dvds took a really long time and a lot of frustrating restarts to get the movie going and any attempt to skip ahead would hang the player.

I replaced the laser and now all DVDs play without issue. However, I can no longer play cds. If I put in a cd, the box sits at "Loading" for about a minute and then shows the time as 0's, as if it is ready to play. However, pressing the play button on either the remote or the face of the player has no effect?

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks.

don...

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post #4569 of 4938 Old 12-27-2009, 01:23 PM
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CD laser and DVD laser are separated. Did you clear completly the transport bridge (it covers separated traces for the two lasers)?
Did you reset the settings for "laser current" and accumulated "laser on time"? Did you also reset completelly the unit?
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post #4570 of 4938 Old 12-27-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

CD laser and DVD laser are separated. Did you clear completly the transport bridge (it covers separated traces for the two lasers)?
Did you reset the settings for "laser current" and accumulated "laser on time"? Did you also reset completelly the unit?

Looks lke I must have missed a few posts when reading up on replacing the laser. Could you give me a bit more help here:

1. I knew that cd and dvd reading required different laser frequencies but I thought they were in the same emitter unit. Is this not so? Do I have to also change a "cd" laser??

2. I think I completely de-soldered the transport bridge. I actually did it twice using de-soldering braid and a magnifier to verify that the traces were clear. Is there an independent way to verify this.

3. I did not reset "laser current" nor "laser accumulated on time." Did not know I needed to do so. Can you please provide directions for these adjustments or reference to the appropriate posts.

4. I did reset the unit each time I worked on the laser.

Thanks much for you help.

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post #4571 of 4938 Old 12-27-2009, 06:38 PM
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The two lasers are in the same optical head. For resetting the current I would recomend to find a service manual - I have only the one for 2930 (I have paid 10$ for it, worth it).

BTW, I don't know if those steps will help, that's just what it is stated in the manual for the laser replacement.
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post #4572 of 4938 Old 12-28-2009, 07:23 AM
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Thanks. I'll see if I can find the service manual.

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post #4573 of 4938 Old 12-28-2009, 01:21 PM
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Just an update in case anyone else runs into this problem....

Downloaded the 3930 service manual. Using it and the instructions previously provided by SoNic67, I reset the initial "laser current" values and "laser accumulated on time" value. No change in problem. Still reads dvds and not cds.

Will try replacing the entire laser traverse unit (found one for $15 with shipping).

However, longer term, if I get this thing working again, I'm probably entering Stage 5 of the Ferengi Stages of Acquisition on my 3930 and Stage 2 in regard to an Oppo BDP-83.

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post #4574 of 4938 Old 12-28-2009, 03:41 PM
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Sorry that the advice didn't help, I saw the reset advice in the 2930 manual. Traverse unit for 15$ is suspiciosly cheap... but who knows. Good luck.

PS: Funny stuff the Ferengi.
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post #4575 of 4938 Old 01-02-2010, 04:22 PM
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My unit also does not play cd's very well and has the same symptoms you describe. If you find a fix, please let me know. I sent mine to the repair tech and he could not find anything wrong with it. However, I have found a work around, but it is a pain in rear end. Cd's are really a problem especially when just turning the unit on. I usually have to hard power the player off to eject the disc after it locks up. The work around I use, is to place a DVD in the tray first. Get it to display a picture on the display. Then, I eject the DVD and place the CD in the player and it works fine (usually). I have had to repeat the task a couple of times to get it to play once in a while, but the first time often works. It usually plays cd's fine if I take the disc out and place a new one, until I place it in standby. Once i have done that, I have to repeat the process again. Has there ever been a class action suit against Denon for the defects revolving around this player? Seems there should be considering the failure rate. I have to say, I no longer recommend Denon products to any clients I have due to their propensity for failure over the past couple of years. I have run into a slew of them.

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post #4576 of 4938 Old 01-05-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudigerS View Post

Obviously the player is with UPS now, en route to Vanns for return/exchange/???.

Blast, out of stock

Oh well, back to the hunt

It Was Like That When I Got Here...
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post #4577 of 4938 Old 01-05-2010, 02:57 PM
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I have replaced the optical unit. All DVD-Audio, Video, Sacd, self burned DVD (DVD-Audio) are playable. Normaly CD -same as DONB :0(
Stings "Brand Newe Day" DTS Audio DVD not recognized :0(
I'll try to reset the unit, currents, counters - I have a service manual copy :0)
Thanks.
Jozef
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post #4578 of 4938 Old 01-06-2010, 08:39 PM
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Received my $16.42 SF-HD65 optical traverse assembly with laser a couple of days ago. Took it out of the box and everything looked OK. Put it on the shelf until I could get to it tonight. Tonight, with the aid of the service manual and only a couple of missteps (the manual is not very clear), I removed and disassembled the DVD mechanism assembly. As I was about to remove the traverse unit, I noticed that the new assembly looked a little odd. The laser appeared to be identical to the previous laser I'd ordered (which was slightly different from the original laser) but the traverse unit itself was different. Closer inspection indicated that the holes in the new unit would not line up with holes in the block on which it was to sit. Also, the rails were BENEATH the unit's plate, not on top as with the original. Thus, I learned the hard way that there is more than one type of SF-HD65 traverse assembly.

Since the lasers "looked" the same, I decided to just remove the laser from the new unit and install it in the old assembly. In short, it was an absolute failure -- neither dvds nor cds will play now. Not sure whether to try DIY again or just send it end. If I try it again, I'm going to ensure that the replacement laser is exactly like the original (if at all possible).

EDIT: Has anyone sent a unit in to Denon to have the laser or traverse unit replaced? What did it cost for the service work w/o shipping? Thanks.

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post #4579 of 4938 Old 01-07-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

EDIT: Has anyone sent a unit in to Denon to have the laser or traverse unit replaced? What did it cost for the service work w/o shipping? Thanks.

I think quite a few of us here have had complete laser unit replaced more than a few times. The complete laser assembly replacement is approx $250.00 to $300.00 installed (including shipping I believe). Unless you have the proper tools and knowledge I would prefer to ship the unit to the (New Jersey) factory and let them do it.

I've had my DVD-3930CI laser unit replaced twice. Thank god it has performed fairly clean for quite a while now (knock-on-wood). Although it hiccup's on a few CD titles here and there, but seems to play everything else fine (ie. SACD's, DVD-A's, SD-DVD's, etc.,...). Still a very impressive player (when it's working properly).
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post #4580 of 4938 Old 01-07-2010, 03:52 PM
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I returned the defective Denon 2930CI back to Vanns who very courteously exchanged it for another brand new one which is sitting in my garage floor as I write this. I might give this 2nd 2930CI unit another shot as my experience with blu-ray has been less than stellar. will post my opinion shortly. If I decide to keep it, I am certain I will come back here to tackle the laser issues.. again, hopefully there wouldnt be any. I just wish the 2030CI didnt have such a fat ass electrical cord that is 2meters long. I am already having trouble hiding the wires behind all my components which are in a shelf with no access to the back except from the front.
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post #4581 of 4938 Old 01-07-2010, 07:18 PM
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The new 2930CI is performing a little better than the old one (seems to be more responsive, also I didnt have hesitation activating the Denon link like the old one)

However, the RS-232 port still seems unresponsive. On one hand I am convinced that I couldnt receive 2 2930CIs with defective RS-232 port. On the other hand, I am able to successfully send RS-232 commands to a Denon 1940CI but not to the Denon 2930CI all things remaining constant. I also know that the RS-232 commands for the 1940CI and 2930CI are identical..

I am completely out of options now, RS-232 just doesnt seem to work for 2930CI.. and will have to settle with IR for remote control.


For those unfamiliar with my situation, here is a brief explanation..

My setup: Universal Remote control MSC-400 and a MX-5000 remote. The MSC-400 is connected to the 2930CI via RS-232.
I have programmed the system to send RS-232 commands to the 2930CI via the MX-5000. ALl things being same, when I connect the MSC-400 to a 1940CI, I am successfully able to control the 1940CI. Using the same setup and just swapping the DVD players, when I send a RS-232 command to the 2930CI, it doesnt respond. Its almost like the RS-232 port is dead. Even when I replaced the 2930CI with another one, I am running into the same problem. 2930CI does not respond to RS-232 commands. The RS-232 commands are identical for 1940CI and 2930CI.
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post #4582 of 4938 Old 01-08-2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I think quite a few of us here have had complete laser unit replaced more than a few times. The complete laser assembly replacement is approx $250.00 to $300.00 installed (including shipping I believe). Unless you have the proper tools and knowledge I would prefer to ship the unit to the (New Jersey) factory and let them do it.

I've had my DVD-3930CI laser unit replaced twice. Thank god it has performed fairly clean for quite a while now (knock-on-wood). Although it hiccup's on a few CD titles here and there, but seems to play everything else fine (ie. SACD's, DVD-A's, SD-DVD's, etc.,...). Still a very impressive player (when it's working properly).

Good to know that you can have the complete laser assembly replaced for the cost of buying (nearly) 2 brand new units.. oh nevr mind, Vanns is out of them and it lkely they wont get any more of these..

However do not despair, Dakmart is selling them (refurb) through buy.com for $165 plus shipping.

I am happy I finally got a new one, that is working well (except RS-232) for $163 net, including shipping from vanns.
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post #4583 of 4938 Old 01-08-2010, 01:42 PM
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Are you sure that RS232 commands are identical? I think there are listed in the manuals.
I don't have the 1940 one...

Regarding the laser I hope that newer firmware took care of that problem. Mine is working all right, knock on wood.
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post #4584 of 4938 Old 01-08-2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Are you sure that RS232 commands are identical? I think there are listed in the manuals.
I don't have the 1940 one...

Regarding the laser I hope that newer firmware took care of that problem. Mine is working all right, knock on wood.

I believe the RS-232 commands are identical for 2930CI and 1940CI. I have not updated the firmware on the new 2930CI I received yesterday. It seems to be working fine and I dont want to fix it if it doesnt need fixing.
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post #4585 of 4938 Old 01-09-2010, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

...The complete laser assembly replacement is approx $250.00 to $300.00 installed (including shipping I believe). Unless you have the proper tools and knowledge I would prefer to ship the unit to the (New Jersey) factory and let them do it...

WestCoastD... Thanks for the info. I talked with a couple of Denon reps and could only get quotes on labor, not for theoretical repairs (though they could tell me the costs of individual parts). I finally gave up trying to find an exact match to the original parts, packed the thing up and sent it off to Denon a couple of days ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rman66 View Post

Good to know that you can have the complete laser assembly replaced for the cost of buying (nearly) 2 brand new units...

Hmmm.... I should have checked the resell value before sending it in for repair. I "guessed" that I could get at least the cost of repair on the resell market. Makes it a bit more difficult to justify the OPPO.

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post #4586 of 4938 Old 01-09-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

WestCoastD... Thanks for the info. I talked with a couple of Denon reps and could only get quotes on labor, not for theoretical repairs (though they could tell me the costs of individual parts). I finally gave up trying to find an exact match to the original parts, packed the thing up and sent it off to Denon a couple of days ago.

Hmmm.... I should have checked the resell value before sending it in for repair. I "guessed" that I could get at least the cost of repair on the resell market. Makes it a bit more difficult to justify the OPPO.

dont feel bad.. that price of $169 was momentary.. appears the cost of brand new 2930 has gone back to $300ish.. it is likely to remain that way unless new (older) inventory floors the market like it happened a month ago. It is afterall a superior player when it works. lol.


Last night I tried a DVD, that used to make the 2930CI (that was returned) stutter horrendously.. I tried the DVD on the new 2930CI and the playback was smooth as butter.. my 2nd impressions on the 2930CI have been positive.

I was able to sell my 1940CI for a decent price.. so upgrading cost me about $60 (from 1940CI to 2930CI) and some wasted time. Not bad huh?
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post #4587 of 4938 Old 01-09-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rman66 View Post

I believe the RS-232 commands are identical for 2930CI and 1940CI. I have not updated the firmware on the new 2930CI I received yesterday. It seems to be working fine and I dont want to fix it if it doesnt need fixing.

If the newer firmware takes care of the higher curent in the laser, you will find the need for it too late - after the laser burned out. Alas I don't know for sure if that's the case. Sony had similar problems in their first PS2 units when weak recorded DVD's where played.
My Denon had the first firmware and a Denon US rep send me a CD with the latest FW.
Of course, it is a personal choise
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post #4588 of 4938 Old 01-09-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

If the newer firmware takes care of the higher curent in the laser, you will find the need for it too late - after the laser burned out. Alas I don't know for sure if that's the case. Sony had similar problems in their first PS2 units when weak recorded DVD's where played.
My Denon had the first firmware and a Denon US rep send me a CD with the latest FW.
Of course, it is a personal choise

It comes with a 1year warranty, so I would like to challenge this unit to go bust in that window so I can return it back to Denon (at their expense) and have it fixed and returned back to me.

It amazes me that Denon doesnt simply issue a recall on this product or come up with a service bulletin. In the auto industry, that is standard practice.
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post #4589 of 4938 Old 01-09-2010, 06:33 PM
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from the info i have,

There are original parts and imitation parts for the traverse unit's and laser unit's.
the bad,

both has the same numbers on it, so it is hard to tell witch one is the original part and has the best quality.

my 2 cents.

DENON AVR-4306
Firmware: Main ver. 01.00, Sub ver. 00.50, DSP ver. 00.04.

DENON DVD-3930
Firmware: BE 8284-A, Make Day C09, DSP 8250, IP 070518
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post #4590 of 4938 Old 01-10-2010, 05:26 AM
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I bet the the traverse that costs the same as the laser cannot be "real" one
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