Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4938 Old 08-15-2006, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Sid, what do you consider a small screen and what size did you see the 2930 on?

I've seen it on a number of screens from 42" to 123". Almost HD on 42 and 50 and awesome on a 123.
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post #632 of 4938 Old 08-15-2006, 09:19 PM
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The 3930CI is now up on crutchfield:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-TOLUQ7Q...0&I=033DV3930C

Not much content yet.
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post #633 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 03:09 AM
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So the feature set differences I see off the top are:

Realta vs Reon

14/216 (3930) vs 12/216 video DAC's (2930)

BB PCM-1796(3930) vs BB PCM-1791(2930)

2 sets component RCA and BNC (3930) - one set component (2930)

and the 3930 has advanced AL24 processing while the 2930 isn't "advanced"

The 2930 is also an inch shorter and 1/2 inch shallower, and I would guess the 2930 wieghs less.
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post #634 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 03:33 AM
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And they say they have it in stock:

From their site:

Need one today?
The Denon DVD-3910S Silver
is in stock at $1499.99.
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post #635 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 03:55 AM
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That's the 3910 not the 3930ci...unfortunately.
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post #636 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 05:06 AM
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Oops, my mistake. Got a bit excited there....
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post #637 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 06:41 AM
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I did too for a second, mostly because I'm interested in reviews, I don't think I would drop that much coin on a player though. I am, however, expecting my 2930 any time now...hopefully today!
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post #638 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 06:45 AM
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Just curious, is there any practical difference between 14 bit 216mhz (DACs) versus 12 bit 216 mhz?

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post #639 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 06:47 AM
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I would think the difference would be indistinguishable, but what do I know?!?!
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post #640 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 04:20 PM
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"Just curious, is there any practical difference between 14 bit 216mhz (DACs) versus 12 bit 216 mhz?"

None whatsoever if you're using HDMI out

Scott.............

"Home Theatre is a Journey , not a Destination "
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post #641 of 4938 Old 08-16-2006, 05:20 PM
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True. But, I meant component.

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post #642 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 04:24 AM
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okay - got the 2930 yesterday and ran through DVE. Power up is quick, load time is a little longer than I expected. Navigation is fast. Some interesting notes - I have a 480p plasma, but the HDMI Auto detect comes in at 720p. There is some pixel cropping off the top at all HDMI resolutions, of which 1080i is the worst and 480p is the best. I threw in Monsters Inc., and using the YPbPr 720p setting there was some pretty bad CUE and combing. This did not happen at other resolutions. It also did not happen with RGB 720p setting. The overall all picture with M.I. was as close to HD as I've seen on a DVD player. Very detailed, very much a 3D effect. I also watched some of LOTR FOTR, again a fantastic picture - very detailed, colors are phenomenal adding a nice punch to the image, bu not quite as 3D like as M.I. I also watched some of The Boondock Saints, because it's such a lowsy transfer. I wanted to see how the 2930 would handle bad material. It was the best I've seen it, but again, another step down from M.I. which was expected.

480p and 1080i, on my display, are incredible. I am disappointed in the pixel cropping on the top...all other sides seem okay. I'm not sure but does it matter for 2:35:1 films?

There are tons of adjustments, plenty of things to tweak and play with. I'm looking forward to the weekend when I can do some real movie watching. Maybe test the component outs. Then next week I get the Oppo 970 for some comparisons.
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post #643 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 06:31 AM
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Is the 2930ci much of an improvement over the Sony 3100Es via the HDMI resolutions you stated?

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post #644 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 06:34 AM
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I'd also be curious to hear your impressions of the dvd-audio/sacd playback of the 2930ci. Sounds like you're more interested in the video, but if you have a chance some feedback on the audio side would be nice.

Thanks, Matt
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post #645 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:


Is the 2930ci much of an improvement over the Sony 3100Es via the HDMI resolutions you stated?

I'd have to say yes. Without being to technical (because I can't be), the picture has much more "pop" to it, more of a 3D look, and far more detail in the darker scenes. If I had to attach a value to it, I'd say it's a $100 picture improvement over the 3100ES and a $150 mechanical improvement. So by list price it falls short by $100...good thing I didn't pay list price.

So far, the thing that pisses me off the most is the pixel cropping...why would there be pixel cropping? That seems like such a simple thing compared to all the others. Now, I could be wrong, I'm using DVE to determine it, but the top part of the letters on the first "picture details" test is clipped by about 2 or 3 pixels...the other sides are perfect, and this is after adjusting overscan.

Quote:


I'd also be curious to hear your impressions of the dvd-audio/sacd playback of the 2930ci. Sounds like you're more interested in the video, but if you have a chance some feedback on the audio side would be nice.

Matt, I am in fact into this one for the video. I don't have any Hi-Rez music at all. Sorry.
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post #646 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 08:06 AM
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Can anyone else comment on DVD-A / SACD performance on this device, especially through the analog connections.
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post #647 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

okay - got the 2930 yesterday and ran through DVE. Power up is quick, load time is a little longer than I expected. Navigation is fast. Some interesting notes - I have a 480p plasma, but the HDMI Auto detect comes in at 720p. There is some pixel cropping off the top at all HDMI resolutions, of which 1080i is the worst and 480p is the best. I threw in Monsters Inc., and using the YPbPr 720p setting there was some pretty bad CUE and combing. This did not happen at other resolutions. It also did not happen with RGB 720p setting. The overall all picture with M.I. was as close to HD as I've seen on a DVD player. Very detailed, very much a 3D effect. I also watched some of LOTR FOTR, again a fantastic picture - very detailed, colors are phenomenal adding a nice punch to the image, bu not quite as 3D like as M.I. I also watched some of The Boondock Saints, because it's such a lowsy transfer. I wanted to see how the 2930 would handle bad material. It was the best I've seen it, but again, another step down from M.I. which was expected.

480p and 1080i, on my display, are incredible. I am disappointed in the pixel cropping on the top...all other sides seem okay. I'm not sure but does it matter for 2:35:1 films?

There are tons of adjustments, plenty of things to tweak and play with. I'm looking forward to the weekend when I can do some real movie watching. Maybe test the component outs. Then next week I get the Oppo 970 for some comparisons.

If you have a 480 display, you don't want to send more than 480p. You can move the image Most likely your display is making the mistake on the resolutions (it is telling the player that it is 720 for one thing), but I believe you can move the image with the 2930 to compensate.
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post #648 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 04:37 PM
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If you have a 480 display, you don't want to send more than 480p. You can move the image Most likely your display is making the mistake on the resolutions (it is telling the player that it is 720 for one thing), but I believe you can move the image with the 2930 to compensate.

Not true. All HD content looks excellent on my set, please don't start the HD vs ED argument. It's already been well established that ED sets are perfectly capable of displaying (very well I might add) a HD signal. Not one person that's seen my set thinks it's ED until I tell them. And like I said, I might be the one making the mistake, not the player or the set.
And also - Maybe the player is making the error in recognition, not the display. Maybe because the display is actually 852 x 480 and not 720 x 480 the player is going to the next logical resolution...I can't answer that, I don't know enough about the player yet, it's purely a guess.

I haven't tried moving the image with the 2930, but I did see that feature. I'll have to give that a shot, and see what it does.
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post #649 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 05:12 PM
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Just hooked up my 2930. Question for owners... is it just me or is the setup menu strange. I couldn't get the player to let me in to some of the settings. It just skipped over them without letting me select them. Maybe I have enter setup without a disk in there?
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post #650 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:


If you have a 480 display, you don't want to send more than 480p.
Quote:


Not true. All HD content looks excellent on my set, please don't start the HD vs ED argument.

I think what he's trying to say, is that it doesn't make any sense to upscale a 480p std def DVD picture to 720p, send it to an ED display as 720p, and then have the ED display downconvert to 480p. You should get the best picture if you simply leave it as 480p. Delivering a true HD picture to an ED display is another matter, as it sounds like you know.


On a sidenote, "Not one person that's seen my set thinks it's ED until I tell them." I currently have a Pio 59AVi hooked up to a Panny 37pwd8uk, Avia'ed, and I get the same input. No one knows it's not HD until I tell them. One reason why I'm holding off on HD from cable or satellite, or HD DVD and Blu-ray. And one reason why I'm looking at the 3930 as a possible, "last, best" SD player.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.


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post #651 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 06:28 PM
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I think what he's trying to say, is that it doesn't make any sense to upscale a 480p std def DVD picture to 720p, send it to an ED display as 720p, and then have the ED display downconvert to 480p. You should get the best picture if you simply leave it as 480p. Delivering a true HD picture to an ED display is another matter, as it sounds like you know.

I thought about that after I posted my response. 1080i looks pretty damned good though, especially on the animated movies.

I have HD cable (my old set was a Toshiba 1080i RPTV) so I kept it. I hardly ever watch SD stuff anymore. I've thought about getting a better resolution set, but honestly, I'm just going to wait for the 1080p plasmas...or something new like SED...we'll see.
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post #652 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 06:30 PM
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Just hooked up my 2930. Question for owners... is it just me or is the setup menu strange. I couldn't get the player to let me in to some of the settings. It just skipped over them without letting me select them. Maybe I have enter setup without a disk in there?

You'll want to use the "Setup" button on the bottom portion of the remote when you either don't have a disc in the player or when the disc is stopped.

At least I think those are the adjustments you're referring to.
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post #653 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 06:53 PM
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The new players are finally listed on the Denon Canada site.

3930 @ $1750 list, same as 3910
2930 @ $1140 list, $90 more than the 2910

The 3930 is about $65 higher than the US after currency conversion. Not bad
The 2930 on the other hand is approx $185 higher. Rip off
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post #654 of 4938 Old 08-17-2006, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

You'll want to use the "Setup" button on the bottom portion of the remote when you either don't have a disc in the player or when the disc is stopped.

At least I think those are the adjustments you're referring to.

Thanks but I still need a little assistance...
Ok, when a disk isn't in there I can get to all of the settings except for the Audio Settings. What do I have to do to get into the Audio settings? In case it makes a difference, I am using HDMI.
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post #655 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 05:21 AM
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What do I have to do to get into the Audio settings?

I won't be able to answer that until later, when I get a chance to play with it some more.


One thing I failed to mention si the build quality. It's definitely a solid little player. It's short, but very...dense, for lack of a better word.
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post #656 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

Tweeter has 40 of the 2930's in their main Chicago warehouse right now. I was going to get one, but I was told to wait for a sale that's coming on the 18th.

Hi all. Long time lurker on the board, first time poster. I finally got around to registerring.


Anyway, I've been following this thread for the last month or so and I'm ready to order the 2930. I'm very interested in this "sale" that bri1270 mentioned. anyone know anything about it?


I'm also very interested in someone's perception on the sound quality of the 2930. I know the 2910 reviewed quite well as far as SACD and DVD-A go, so I imagine the 2930 will be as good or better. But, what about redbook CD'S? That was the 2910's weak point (although weak is probably debatable). I'm wondering if the new AL24 sound processing will help this tremendously. Could someone comment on that?

Thanks!
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post #657 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 06:16 AM
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I'm very interested in this "sale" that bri1270 mentioned. anyone know anything about it?

I didn't say anything about a "sale," I said I got a good deal...actually I said I didn't pay list price. I never pay list price Other than list price, pricing discussions are not allowed in the forum.
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post #658 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 06:18 AM
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If I had to attach a value to it, I'd say it's a $100 picture improvement over the 3100ES and a $150 mechanical improvement. So by list price it falls short by $1

After looking at both the 3100ES and the 2930, and lifting tem and checking them both out a little more closely from a physical perspective, I would have to add another $50 - $75 of perceived value for build quality.
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post #659 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinTaj View Post

I'm also very interested in someone's perception on the sound quality of the 2930. I know the 2910 reviewed quite well as far as SACD and DVD-A go, so I imagine the 2930 will be as good or better. But, what about redbook CD'S? That was the 2910's weak point (although weak is probably debatable). I'm wondering if the new AL24 sound processing will help this tremendously. Could someone comment on that?

I had the 2910 before upgrading to the 3910 and this is what I found...

The AL24 processing of the 3910 has a lot to do with the sound quality of red book CDs. I noticed it right away when I switched units.

It would be my guess that the sound quality from the stereo analog outs of the 2930 with AL24 engage will sound better then the 2910 but maybe not as good as the 3910 with the better DACs.

In my testing, I believe AL24 accounts for 75% of the sound improvement and the better DACs account for the rest. Just like the up-conversion for digital video has been proven to be closer to the original image, up converted digital audio will sound closer to it's original sound.

Remember using the DVD players AL24 processor requires you use the analog outs from the player. These DVD players to not up-convert the digital outputs which is to bad.
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post #660 of 4938 Old 08-18-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

I didn't say anything about a "sale," I said I got a good deal...actually I said I didn't pay list price. I never pay list price Other than list price, pricing discussions are not allowed in the forum.

I'm sorry, bri1270. I guess I misunderstood. But if I read your quote: "I was going to get one, but I was told to wait for a sale that's coming on the 18th" it sure sounded like you knew of a sale (which was coming on the 18th - today). Apparently I was wrong. Perhaps we can talk via PM if sale discussions are not permitted.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky63 View Post

I had the 2910 before upgrading to the 3910 and this is what I found...

The AL24 processing of the 3910 has a lot to do with the sound quality of red book CDs. I noticed it right away when I switched units.

It would be my guess that the sound quality from the stereo analog outs of the 2930 with AL24 engage will sound better then the 2910 but maybe not as good as the 3910 with the better DACs.

In my testing, I believe AL24 accounts for 75% of the sound improvement and the better DACs account for the rest. Just like the up-conversion for digital video has been proven to be closer to the original image, up converted digital audio will sound closer to it's original sound.

Remember using the DVD players AL24 processor requires you use the analog outs from the player. These DVD players to not up-convert the digital outputs which is to bad.

Thanks, Bucky63. I was hoping for a response something like that. I plan on hooking up the 2930 only via the analog multi-channel outputs into my receiver's multi-channel inputs. Additionally, I plan on using the "bass enhancer" feature to split the low frequencies to the sub while listening to 2-channel sources (through multi-channel output). I presume AL24 processing will work this way? I do not plan on hooking up the 2-channel analog outputs to anything, as I see no need (unless I'm mistaken).

Thanks again. I'd also like to hear real-world redbook experience on the 2930 if anyone has it.
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