Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4947 Old 05-03-2006, 06:59 AM
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Anyone have any late breaking news on this? =)
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post #92 of 4947 Old 05-03-2006, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

I have a brand new still in the box Marantz 9600 sitting on my family room floor. Same idea: "last, best" SD player. Be interesting to see how the 3930 ends up. I really wish it would output 480i though.

To me, the whole point of outputting 480i is to bypass the usually crappy internal doubler/scaler of the player (assuming it doesn't have any other issues) so you can output the original signal into a better external scaler. But now, with these new SO chips, it really doesn't get much better than this, at least for deinterlacing. So as long as the player gets the basics right (which usually effects both 480i and 480p the same way), the need for 480i output on these new Denon players seems moot, only because the SO chips are already so good.

P.S. Thanks again for loaning your 9600 to Kris for his review. You rock, dude! If I had 2 grand to drop on a uni-player, I'd take the 9600 in a second! But thats a little too rich for my blood, so hears to hoping that the 2930 or the 3930 can come close to your badboy.

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post #93 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 12:38 AM
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I'm probably not going to keep the 9600. It won't do remaining track time, remaining disc time, or total disc time. Good video and audio are ... good, but this is a convenience feature the 59AVi has that I can't live without. So I'll be keeping an eye on the Denon and the new Arcam when they come out.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #94 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 02:19 AM
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I wonder if they're keeping the same styling for these players?
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post #95 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post

I wonder if they're keeping the same styling for these players?

We can only pray, I don't need some silvery nonsense that looks like it came from the 80's in my rack.
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post #96 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post

I wonder if they're keeping the same styling for these players?

I doubt it. Denon stated they would not longer be doing silver. In their own words, "black is the new silver".

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post #97 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by awtryau89 View Post

I doubt it. Denon stated they would not longer be doing silver. In their own words, "black is the new silver".

does that apply to Europe too?
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post #98 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post

I wonder if they're keeping the same styling for these players?

I hope so, in case I want to swap it with the 3910 currently in my wall unit without my wife knowing.
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post #99 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 03:08 PM
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I wish they'd make their minds up which colour is black, er, or silver.
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post #100 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I hope so, in case I want to swap it with the 3910 currently in my wall unit without my wife knowing.

hah!
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post #101 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

I'm probably not going to keep the 9600. It won't do remaining track time, remaining disc time, or total disc time. Good video and audio are ... good, but this is a convenience feature the 59AVi has that I can't live without. So I'll be keeping an eye on the Denon and the new Arcam when they come out.

I couldn't believe that about the 9600 having no time display options when I first heard about it. That's like naming Frogger, "Highway Crossing Frog"! ("Thats so lame!" - Sean William Scott. "I know! Its the lamest thing I've ever heard! Highway Crossing Frog?!...." - Will Ferrel) I too am keeping an eye on the Denons and possibly the Oppo 970 but for video only.

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post #102 of 4947 Old 05-04-2006, 07:31 PM
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I hope so, in case I want to swap it with the 3910 currently in my wall unit without my wife knowing.


That's hilarious! You made my night. When I added a dac one time, my wife never would have noticed. It took her forever to figure out something was different and the only reason that she did was the thing was gold instead of silver or black:-)

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post #103 of 4947 Old 05-05-2006, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I hope so, in case I want to swap it with the 3910 currently in my wall unit without my wife knowing.

And I thought I was the only "sinner" who did things like that.
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post #104 of 4947 Old 05-05-2006, 08:00 AM
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I do it with my golf clubs all the time. She will notice if the replacement player is silver. An HDTV display, though, would be a lot tougher. I'm actually half kidding, but very, very tempted, especially since the 1st generation of high def players (either format) have no interest for me (I'll be waiting for a bug-free player that also plays SACD).
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post #105 of 4947 Old 05-05-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
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I do it with my golf clubs all the time.

Okay, guys. Let's hear a few more confessions like this.
If your wives are anything like mine, the chance that you'll get busted if they read this forum are about as great as the possibility that I'll sit down to watch two hours of HGTV.
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post #106 of 4947 Old 05-05-2006, 11:47 AM
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My wife doesn't care and I don't count her shoes.

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post #107 of 4947 Old 05-06-2006, 10:19 AM
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I got away with this several times on the wife when I wanted to upgrade the video card or processor on the computer or put in the performance ECM chip in my Volkswagen; but when I tried sneaking in the Paradigm Studio 60s on my wife...she kind of noticed.

Now I have a Denon 2910 on its way to my house, and I'm wondering if she'll notice it over the cheap slim silver Sony DVD player its replacing...
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post #108 of 4947 Old 05-06-2006, 05:21 PM
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My wife doesn't care and I don't count her shoes.

Kal

Yeah, but for you it's the "tools of the trade."
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post #109 of 4947 Old 05-06-2006, 06:23 PM
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Yeah, but for you it's the "tools of the trade."

Sure but I probably spend more than I make at it. Good thing I have a "day job."

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post #110 of 4947 Old 05-10-2006, 02:27 PM
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PCM-1796 is pefect.
1080p is cool, altough an excellent 720p is more important for me than a mediocre 1080p.

If they manage to beat the Oppo Digital for video quality that will be excellent.

As for the audio quality, personally I am interested ONLY in 2-channels and about the size of the power supply (which serve both the audio and the video).

Both 2930 and 3930 I think will be overpriced, especially for the current market condition (dvd players sales started to decline).
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post #111 of 4947 Old 05-15-2006, 01:42 PM
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Will these have Divx/Xvid playback?

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post #112 of 4947 Old 05-15-2006, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rynopr View Post

Will these have Divx/Xvid playback?

Pardon my ignorance, but what's that?
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post #113 of 4947 Old 05-15-2006, 04:20 PM
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What is Divx?
http://www.divxmovies.com/info/

What is Xvid?
http://www.xvidmovies.com/info/


Essentially, a format that you download from the net, then burn to DVD, and the player can play it.

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post #114 of 4947 Old 05-16-2006, 03:59 PM
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Hrm this might be the impetous for me to upgrade my 2910... though I really wish they would have been able to include HDMI 1.2 for SACD. I guess i-like is good enough though.

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post #115 of 4947 Old 05-16-2006, 05:37 PM
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I-link is probably better than HDMI V1.2 for SACD.

HDMI has synchronous control of the video data, up to a point, but no control over the audio data - it's open ended, and the audio clock has to be regenerated by the sink.

I-Link is isochronous, so the audio data rate is controled with an adaptive flow-control mechanism. Not a closed-lock loop, but pretty good. It should be significantly better than SPDIF or HDMI with a suitable amp.

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post #116 of 4947 Old 05-16-2006, 05:50 PM
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For receivers without iLink, are there any universal players that convert multichannel DSD/SACD into PCM for transmission over HDMI 1.1?
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post #117 of 4947 Old 05-16-2006, 07:03 PM
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It should be significantly better than SPDIF or HDMI with a suitable amp.

This is only true if:

a) You get rate control between the player and the receiver or pre/pro. Pio players work with Sony receivers, we know that. But there have been other instances between different manufacturers where this is not the case.

Incidentally, flow control is automatic with Denon Link.

b) You believe that jitter is audible. The *only* difference in the data between coax/toslink and i.Link with flow control, is that jitter is minimized with flow control. Otherwise, 1's are 1's and 0's are 0's. Some jitter numbers for current players are: 3910: ~350 ps, Marantz 9600: ~350 ps, Pio 59AVi: ~250 ps, Pio 79AVi: ~150 ps. I have seen references where *some* people don't believe jitter can be audible below 1000 ps, and I've seen other references where they talk about tens of thousands of picoseconds necessary for the audibility of jitter.

I think the real benefit of i.Link isn't that the sound quality is going to be appreciably better than coax/toslink, but that you can transfer DVD-A and SACD digitally, and then get time alignment (distance compensation) and crossover filtering done in the receiver or pre/pro.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #118 of 4947 Old 05-17-2006, 05:25 AM
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The *only* difference in the data between coax/toslink and i.Link with flow control, is that jitter is minimized with flow control.

Flow control with i.link help does help, but i.link without flow control has a much better chance (much less jitter, if measureable) than S/PDIF to correctly sample (i.Link doesnt' sample, though) the 1's and 0's. Remember, coax and toslink uses a form of FM (frequency modulation) to send the bits. I've installed complete software systems over an ieee1394 connection. I'd never attempt that with a S/PDIF connection (if it were possible).

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post #119 of 4947 Old 05-17-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoSmoke View Post

For receivers without iLink, are there any universal players that convert multichannel DSD/SACD into PCM for transmission over HDMI 1.1?

I don't think there are any. In fact, SACD over HDMI is only supported in HDMI 1.2.

http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp#hdmi_specification

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post #120 of 4947 Old 05-17-2006, 07:15 AM
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I'd agree. I haven't looked hard, but nobody here at AVS has mentioned a player they own that does SACD (in any form) via HDMI.

larry

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