Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 10:36 AM
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So...if I go ahead and buy the Denon DVD 3930 to go with my Denon AVR 3806, what connections will I want to use to get the best audio quality from the various formats, e.g., CD redbook, DVD-A, SACD, DD/DTS movies, etc.?
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post #182 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 10:49 AM
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Hi S2silber

during a business trip I bought some HDMI-cables 4ft (silver line) from Belkin PureAV. They deliver really a superb picture quality. Meanwhile the cables are also available in Germany.

Regards, Michael
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post #183 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ex-Sunny View Post

Hi S2silber

during a business trip I bought some HDMI-cables 4ft (silver line) from Belkin PureAV. They deliver really a superb picture quality. Meanwhile the cables are also available in Germany.

Regards, Michael

Thanks, Michael. I must have posted my question in a confusing way. I wasn't really asking about the best quality cable, but rather which connections to use, e.g., DLink, HDMI, 2Ch analogue, multi-channel analogue, etc. with different media, e.g., CD, SACD, DVD-A, DD/DTS movies, etc., when running between the Denon 3930 and 3806. Sorry.
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post #184 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 11:46 AM
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s2silber...
Not an expert here, but I think it would depend on two things
1) DACS. Not knowing the DAC's in either unit I can only imagine that those in the 3930 are superior to those in the Receiver.

2) What you plan to do with it. If you want your receiver to have complete functionality with the multi-ch audio you'll need to run the D-3. Otherwise you're stuck with the DVD players adjustments and the analog inputs will bypass all processing and adjustments in the reveiver.

I have a similar issue. I have the 3805 and I KNOW that the 3930's DAC's are superior, but will still probably run the D-3 because of functionality.

shane

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post #185 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

So...if I go ahead and buy the Denon DVD 3930 to go with my Denon AVR 3806, what connections will I want to use to get the best audio quality from the various formats, e.g., CD redbook, DVD-A, SACD, DD/DTS movies, etc.?

Coax for DVD-V, and may be CD/DTS-CD
Dlink for DVDA/SACD
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post #186 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jheoaustin View Post

Coax for DVD-V, and may be CD/DTS-CD
Dlink for DVDA/SACD

If he's going to go digital with all audio output, why not just use the D-3 for all? Digital is digital (yeah, yeah... for the most part), so what would the spdif advantage be for the two mentioned?

shane

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post #187 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jheoaustin View Post

Coax for DVD-V, and may be CD/DTS-CD
Dlink for DVDA/SACD

I disagree. The 3910 DACs are better than the receiver's DACs, so I'd go analog for CD/SACD/DVD-A.
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post #188 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I disagree. The 3910 DACs are better than the receiver's DACs, so I'd go analog for CD/SACD/DVD-A.

Sure... but then why not go analog for everything?
What is the advantage of going digital for DD / DTS?

I guess what I am wondering is:
If digital is what is preferred, why not go digital with everything.
If analog is preferred why not go analog with everything.
Why go one for some and the other for the remainder?

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post #189 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

Sure... but then why not go analog for everything?
What is the advantage of going digital for DD / DTS?

shane

Well, if you want to hear it, then a digital to analog conversion must occur (sound is analog)...whether by the player or receiver.

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post #190 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Well, if you want to hear it, then a digital to analog conversion must occur (sound is analog)...whether by the player or receiver.

Well... um... either you haven't read my posts or I haven't made myself clear.

I understand what DAC's are. I understand their function. I've been dealing with A/V for a very long time.

My question is not why convert from D to A, but why would one chose to use D for some types of encoding (DD / DTS) and let the rcvr's DACs do the work, but A (up to the receiver via 6-ch analog cables, letting the player's DAC's do the work) for SACD, DVD-A, etc?

When we have two Denon components capable of D-3 linkage, why would one chose to use it for some sources and the 6-ch analog output from the 3930 for others.

If the 3930's DACS are superior to the receivers', then why not use them for EVERY source... not just some?

Is that more clear?

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post #191 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

If the 3930's DACS are superior to the receivers', then why not use them for EVERY source... not just some?

I agree with you. I assume many people's answer is simple convenience. When I listen to CDs or SACDs, I usually listen very critically (not just as background music), and therefore want to optimize audio. When watching a movie, I don't care as much about the audio (I focus more on PQ), so which DACs to use are less important to me in that situation.
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post #192 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

Well... um... either you haven't read my posts or I haven't made myself clear.

I understand what DAC's are. I understand their function. I've been dealing with A/V for a very long time.

My question is not why convert from D to A, but why would one chose to use D for some types of encoding (DD / DTS) and let the rcvr's DACs do the work, but A (up to the receiver via 6-ch analog cables, letting the player's DAC's do the work) for SACD, DVD-A, etc?

When we have two Denon components capable of D-3 linkage, why would one chose to use it for some sources and the 6-ch analog output from the 3930 for others.

If the 3930's DACS are superior to the receivers', then why not use them for EVERY source... not just some?

Is that more clear?

shane

Yes...I read your initial posts way too quickly and see what you are saying now.

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post #193 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

If the 3930's DACS are superior to the receivers', then why not use them for EVERY source... not just some?

The quality of the DACs is only one issue. Another is the flexibility of the bass management and speaker set-up on the two devices. Usually, AVRs are better at this than are players, so that's one reason to use the digital input.

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post #194 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jheoaustin View Post

Coax for DVD-V, and may be CD/DTS-CD
Dlink for DVDA/SACD

Why not DLink for DVD-V (movies) as well? In other words, what's the advantage of coax over DLink?
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post #195 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 10:52 PM
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@s2Silber

Why don't you use the HDMI-cable for audio/video (DVD, also CD)? The benefit is, you will have only one connection. In case, you want play SACD you can use additional the D3-Link, because HDMI 1.1 doesn't supports the transmission (first 1.2)
All other cables would be redundant. From my perspective there wouldn't be an advantage to use the 5.1 analog output, because there is probably a small lost during the D/A convertion.
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post #196 of 4938 Old 06-20-2006, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

Why not DLink for DVD-V (movies) as well? In other words, what's the advantage of coax over DLink?

Yup... same question I asked in post #186.
Digital is digital... D-link v. coax? No difference AFAIK.
Well... except for the obvious: That the d-link will carry the digital SACD and DVD-A signal to your receiver, and the coax will not.
Sonically, none.

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post #197 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 03:53 AM
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So no DVIX support on 2930? Strange...
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post #198 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Sunny View Post

Here the information for 2930:

Denon DVD-2930

[...]
DivX Playback (3.11 / 4.x / 5.x / 6.0)
[...]

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post #199 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Scamardo View Post

No Denon player uses HDMI 1.2. Yours is 1.1.

My mistake. Thanks for the correction guys.
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post #200 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Sunny View Post

Hi S2silber

during a business trip I bought some HDMI-cables 4ft (silver line) from Belkin PureAV. They deliver really a superb picture quality. Meanwhile the cables are also available in Germany.

Regards, Michael

We all know there is a difference between digital cable, especially at 4 ft.
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post #201 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

Thanks, Michael. I must have posted my question in a confusing way. I wasn't really asking about the best quality cable, but rather which connections to use, e.g., DLink, HDMI, 2Ch analogue, multi-channel analogue, etc. with different media, e.g., CD, SACD, DVD-A, DD/DTS movies, etc., when running between the Denon 3930 and 3806. Sorry.

If you want the best sound, I don't think there is any option but to use multi-channel analog, and running your reciever in direct mode, so there in no further processing done in the receiver end.
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post #202 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The quality of the DACs is only one issue. Another is the flexibility of the bass management and speaker set-up on the two devices. Usually, AVRs are better at this than are players, so that's one reason to use the digital input.

Kal

If we are talking best audio performance and if the Denon 3930 has better dacs than the 2930 and we know that they both the denons give full bass management on the DVD player, would there be any reason to use the digital connections?
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post #203 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter View Post

If we are talking best audio performance and if the Denon 3930 has better dacs than the 2930 and we know that they both the denons give full bass management on the DVD player, would there be any reason to use the digital connections?

I was speaking generically and the presence of something like Audyssey MultEQ in the AVR might tip the balance.

Kal

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post #204 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter View Post

If we are talking best audio performance and if the Denon 3930 has better dacs than the 2930 and we know that they both the denons give full bass management on the DVD player, would there be any reason to use the digital connections?

For movies, regardless of the quality of the player's analog output, I would use its digital output so I can use a digital device to fix lipsync delay.
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post #205 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 12:25 PM
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So what is everybody's consensus? When I get a 3930 what way do I go to hook the 3930 up to a Denon 4806 receiver? I plan to use music and movies equally.
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post #206 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDMedic View Post

So what is everybody's consensus? When I get a 3930 what way do I go to hook the 3930 up to a Denon 4806 receiver? I plan to use music and movies equally.

Seems to be no absolute concensus.
If you are looking for the best audio quality, run analog to your 4806.
If you need to utilize any of the Recievers functions like auto-EQ (if you think this will give you a better SQ) or lip-synch adjustments, you'll be best off using the d-link.

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post #207 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

If he's going to go digital with all audio output, why not just use the D-3 for all? Digital is digital (yeah, yeah... for the most part), so what would the spdif advantage be for the two mentioned?

shane

First, I am not sure which of DL3 and S/PDIF is better for CD, due to some unknown implementation detail. But for DVD-V, I believe that the jitter-free clock feature of DL3 won't work with audio along with video. That flow-control feature like i.link(aka HATS, PQLS) uses fixed-frequency crystal oscillator at the receiver side. This is the best for audio, but the problem is the video which can't be synchronized with the receiver side clock.
When you use DL or i.link, and the video is sent along together, designers disable the the flow control to avoid lip-sync error. Then, the audio clock is generated by some PLL at the receiver side. This is known to have pretty bad clock quality. Jitter could go up to uS order, compared to ~ 100ps by crystal oscillator or up to hundreds of nanosecond by S/PDIF receiver PLL.

One more thing to note is about HDMI. HDMI uses similar S/W-controlled PLL to generate audio clock from the video clock that is sent over the physical HDMI link. So, HDMI link has worse clock quality than S/PDIF's as well, unless they use 2nd PLL to reduce the jitter.
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post #208 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 02:34 PM
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I recall Kal doing a comparison between DLink and analog in Stereo Review in which he found that DLink was, basically, just as good for music, but you bring up a good point about video synchronization. I wonder what Kal would say about your argument ?
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post #209 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDMedic View Post

So what is everybody's consensus? When I get a 3930 what way do I go to hook the 3930 up to a Denon 4806 receiver? I plan to use music and movies equally.

DL3 Never had a problem with video synch.

Kal

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post #210 of 4938 Old 06-21-2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

DL3 Never had a problem with video synch.

Kal

So, aside from whatever improvements Audyssey might yield in some rooms, sounds like DL3 is a good option for just about everything?
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