Faroudja DCDi ?s about MB - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-23-2006, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I have some questions regarding the Faroudja DCDi chip (set) and its problem from macroblocking. From what I gather from the numerous posts is that the OPPO 971 is a great bang for the buck DVD player but is prone to macroblocking because of its Faroudja DCDi chip. It has also been mentioned that this is a shortcoming of the chip itself and other players using the same chip have similar problems. Now is it really the chip itself, or "implemantation" of the chip. In other words, is any player/AVR that uses the chip going to have the same amount of MB, or can the MB vary from manufacturer to manufacturer based on what they do with the chip in their respective DVD players? My Pioneer VSX-84TXSi AVR uses the DCDi chip to de-interlace and re-scale, and if I use it to convert the signal instead of the DVD player should it have the same MB issues as any DCDi DVD player or would it be different? Are there any DCDi based players that don't have MB issues? Sorry to be so obtuse. Thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-23-2006, 03:05 PM
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I believe it is specific to the Faroudja chip/series that the Oppo 971H (and other manufacturers) use. I think that previous generations and (perhaps) later generations will/have had less macroblock enhancing errors.

EDIT: sp
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-23-2006, 04:25 PM
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The current faroudja chip, the 23xx, has macroblocking on every implementation I've seen of it. I've used three DVD player that use this chip (Panny S97, Zenith 318, oppo 971) and all three show macroblocking on my display. The oppo shows it far less than the other three, but it is still there.

Older faroudja chips like the 2200 chip did not have this issue.
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-23-2006, 06:42 PM
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It's only with the current Faroudja chip, which is widely used in many different brands.
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-26-2006, 08:11 PM
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MB issues has been around for years. Why no fix from the DVD player makers or from Faroudja? I'm aware that Panasonic released a firmware that minimizes this but it's puzzling why it hasn't been addressed...especially in recently released dvd players.
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 09:11 AM
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Faroudja has supposedly been working on a new chip for a while now. Some manucfacturers have been able to reduce, but not eliminate, MB, which by the way is only a problem with some displays. Denon has obviously stopped waiting for Faroudja to fix the problem, and went with other chips in their new high-end players (2930 and 3930), which is the best way to put pressure on Faroudja to fix it.
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 10:21 AM
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Thought I'd throw my nickels worth in here;

I guess I still kind of wonder what exactly it is? I have a 971H and don't see any problems so far with all the movies I have tried with "blocks". But then again, I don't know exactly what to look for, so maybe ignorance is bliss?

What IS odd to me however, the DVD player the Oppo replaced (a 3-4 year old Toshiba SD-3800 I belive) had some weird anomolies similar to what people say macroblocking looks like. As an example, in U-571, when the movie first starts, it kind of zoom's out of the German Captains eye. On my old Toshiba the center of his eye (forgot what its called....the black part anyway) was actually divided up into 4 big blocks of differing shades of black. It never bothered me, but I noticed it.

Now that I have my Oppo, and things are calibrated, it doesn't do that anymore...Odd.

-Alan
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 10:46 AM
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I thought I read somewhere that the Faroudja 2301/2310 chip only has macroblocking when the chip is used inside the DVD player itself, and not when it is used externally, ie. in an AVR or video processor.

Can anyone confirm this?

what's a semiologist?
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umberto eco View Post

I thought I read somewhere that the Faroudja 2301/2310 chip only has macroblocking when the chip is used inside the DVD player itself, and not when it is used externally, ie. in an AVR or video processor.

Can anyone confirm this?

Correct. There would be no MB if you output 480i.
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 10:56 AM
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Firebird, again, MB is very display dependent. If you don't get MB, the Oppo is a great player. Yes, there are many different types of artifacts that different players can introduce.
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 10:59 AM
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I realise there would be no MB when outputing 480i, but what if you then fed that 480i into an external unit that uses the Faroudja to deinterlace? Would it not introduce the MB at this point? Or does MB not occur on this chip when it is used externally (from a DVD player)?

what's a semiologist?
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umberto eco View Post

I realise there would be no MB when outputing 480i, but what if you then fed that 480i into an external unit that uses the Faroudja to deinterlace? Would it not introduce the MB at this point? Or does MB not occur on this chip when it is used externally (from a DVD player)?

If the external device it uses the same chip, it could introduce MB.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-27-2006, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

If the external device it uses the same chip, it could introduce MB.

I think you answered part of my original question. I have a Pioneer elite VSX-84TSi that uses a Faroudja DCDi chip for de-interlacing scaling. If I use the AVR for scaling, it potentially introduces macroblocking. I'm wondering what my PDP-6070 has and if it would not be better to pass everyting 480i to the display and have it conmvert to native resolution. Am I missing anything?
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post #14 of 20 Old 04-19-2007, 01:19 PM
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Is there a thread here.. or a resource out there somewhere.. that provides:

a) a list of player/display combinations to avoid?

and..

b) a list of movie scenes to demo to see if your combination is a "bad" one?

I just acquired a Denon 3910 to be used with my Panny AE900U PJ.. will be using an HDMI connection between the two. Since I haven't hooked them both up yet (still working on getting the room together), I'm looking for some hints as to whether I will be affected by this crappy chip or not.

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post #15 of 20 Old 04-19-2007, 04:11 PM
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You won't know till you try. Few, if any, 3910 owners complain. Proper calibration will minimize any effect if there is some. I would just forget about it, calibrate properly, and if you happen to notice any issues then try to determine if it's "enhanced MB" or not.

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post #16 of 20 Old 04-19-2007, 05:24 PM
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I have the 3910 matched with a DLP and have never noticed MB. Check out the Secret's review of the 3910. If I remember correctly, Kris saw no MB at 720p output, but some minor MB at 1080i (but less than other Faroudja players).
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post #17 of 20 Old 04-19-2007, 05:28 PM
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I would be running 720p (native on my PJ).. but from my understanding the degree to which you see the MB is display dependent.
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-20-2007, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jephdood View Post

from my understanding the degree to which you see the MB is display dependent.

Absolutely. It seems to be more of a problem with plasmas and DLPs.
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post #19 of 20 Old 04-23-2007, 05:45 AM
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Quote:


a) a list of player/display combinations to avoid?

and..

b) a list of movie scenes to demo to see if your combination is a "bad" one?

Optoma HD6800, Panasonic S77 & MATRIX 1 (begining of the movie) huge MB about 1/2 of the screen aera. Not only MB but the MB "flashing" !!! (changing brightness of the MB)
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-23-2007, 06:43 AM
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The Matrix is a difficult movie for digital displays. A lot of dark scenes have some compression issues.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
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