OPPO Digital Presents: DV-983H w/ ABT chips (1080p, SACD DSD, 7.1 Surround, USB 2.0) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 11:09 AM
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Are these up-converting technologies better than HQV as implemented in the Samsung BD-P1200?

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post #182 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 11:39 AM
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If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.
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post #183 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.

Thanks, Neuromancer.

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post #184 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by joltdudeuc View Post

Aren't DVDs encoded at 30 frames, so I don't see why all the fuss about 24 frames output?? :shrugs:

Yes, but the underlying content (movies) is typically 24fps. Being able to output the native frame-rate of the content is a big deal when you have displays can can output frame-rates at integer values of 24 - like 48, 72, 96, or 120 Hz, which typicaly require a 1080p/24 input signal.
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post #185 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 01:49 PM
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Here's a rather obscure wishlist item: will the new Oppo offer more comprehensive information on the output format of what's being played? (eg: format/sample rate/bit depth/channel number) . My 970HD is pretty stingy in this regard, though it was a feature of every other SACD/DVDA player I've owned.
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post #186 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theRchitect View Post

Yes, but the underlying content (movies) is typically 24fps. Being able to output the native frame-rate of the content is a big deal when you have displays can can output frame-rates at integer values of 24 - like 48, 72, 96, or 120 Hz, which typicaly require a 1080p/24 input signal.

The biggest issue I have is that you have to do a reverse telecine. If the original master was 24 frames then the inherent benefits are greater. With a source which is 60i you run into issue of poor frame conversion, incorrect dropped frames, or audio synchronization errors if you are using incorrect algorithms.

Much like we see visual errors with mixed and video cadences due to improper media flagging, the same can occur for a 24Hz output of an original 60i source.
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post #187 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Here's a rather obscure wishlist item: will the new Oppo offer more comprehensive information on the output format of what's being played? (eg: format/sample rate/bit depth/channel number) . My 970HD is pretty stingy in this regard, though it was a feature of every other SACD/DVDA player I've owned.

As the core decoding chipset is the same: unlikely.
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post #188 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 03:46 PM
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I too would really like to see 24Hz output.

This is the one thing that is really missing on DVD players and TV's.
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post #189 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 06:00 PM
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I too would really like to see 24Hz output.

This is the one thing that is really missing on DVD players and TV's.

+100 Absolutely this might indeed be their last SD-DVD universal player, we need 24Hz output. Almost all my viewing is DVD, this would really help maintain the life of peoples existing SD-DVD library.

This would be a killer feature the rest is nice, but nothing shattering.

Well according to the HD thread, we can at least use the A20, and just have two players. When PAL and region need to changing or the source is not 24fps use the oppo. The AX2 might also be an option if they fix the little frequency sync issue.
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post #190 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 09:53 PM
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Yeah ... I'm definitely interested in the upcoming 3rd gen HD DVD players that fixed the 24Hz synch issue.

I'll probably end up getting one of the ones with Reon in it as my 'dedicated' DVD player.
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post #191 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proufo View Post

Are these up-converting technologies better than HQV as implemented in the Samsung BD-P1200?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.

It has always surprised me to see the new HD format players being regarded as good upconverters of SD-DVD. This flys in the face of the theory that dedicated units perform better than "jack of all trades" electronics. For example, I wouldn't assume a $400 DVD player would handle CDs as well as a $400 CD player.

Are you saying then that we might as well skip the Oppo and put our money towards an HD player?

Mark
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post #192 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 11:19 PM
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Unless the HD player also does SACD, DVD-A, and HDCD, I wouldn't
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post #193 of 2145 Old 09-28-2007, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MukAudio View Post

It has always surprised me to see the new HD format players being regarded as good upconverters of SD-DVD. This flys in the face of the theory that dedicated units perform better than "jack of all trades" electronics. For example, I wouldn't assume a $400 DVD player would handle CDs as well as a $400 CD player.

Are you saying then that we might as well skip the Oppo and put our money towards an HD player?

Mark

As krabapple points out ... no, if you need a universal.


Some of the HD DVD and BD players are a bit of an anomaly, since they offer things like HQV Reon at a price point that's pretty sweet. DVD players haven't caught up to offering that at a competative pricepoint.


That said, if your don't necessarily need the noise reduction Reon offers (nor 24Hz out if the Oppo doesn't offer it) ... the 983 is going to certainly be cheaper than the Reon-equipped next-gen players. And its overall de-interlacing and scaling should be about as good (actually its cadence detection is likely better than Reon for irregular stuff like anime ... you need Realta to reach that level).


I'll probably end up with both
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post #194 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

yes but the component interface is not controlled by the ABT chipset.

So component-wise would it be identical to the 980H (including upscaling of non-protected discs)?
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post #195 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 02:46 AM
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As it is now, that is correct.
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post #196 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Movie View Post


Well according to the HD thread, we can at least use the A20, and just have two players. When PAL and region need to changing or the source is not 24fps use the oppo. The AX2 might also be an option if they fix the little frequency sync issue.

That's the setup I have,an Oppo 970 and a A20.
The 983 sounds interesting BUT I think the price point is a little high considering you can get a A20/A30 with a ABT chip for the same price.
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post #197 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 11:55 AM
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why dont they make a changer too
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post #198 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

As krabapple points out ... no, if you need a universal.

Some of the HD DVD and BD players are a bit of an anomaly, since they offer things like HQV Reon at a price point that's pretty sweet. DVD players haven't caught up to offering that at a competative pricepoint.

That said, if your don't necessarily need the noise reduction Reon offers (nor 24Hz out if the Oppo doesn't offer it) ... the 983 is going to certainly be cheaper than the Reon-equipped next-gen players. And its overall de-interlacing and scaling should be about as good (actually its cadence detection is likely better than Reon for irregular stuff like anime ... you need Realta to reach that level).

I own probably 5 DVD-A and 3 SACD titles but I've given up on those formats for awhile. Right now I have a Pioneer Elite DV-45A paired with a Sony WEGA XBR 34" CRT and I'm looking to maximize my picture with SD-DVD. Have looked at Marantz's DV-9600, Denon's DVD-3930. I also happened to read a bit about Anchor Bay's DVDO scalers. At the moment, it sounds like the new 983H could be the perfect solution.

Mark.
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post #199 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 12:44 PM
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Aye. I just learned of the 980H making my 981HD look outdated, now there's another? YUM.
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post #200 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

why dont they make a changer too

Changers break down too easily. To ensure that best quality product, they are sticking to single disc solutions.
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post #201 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

That's the setup I have,an Oppo 970 and a A20.
The 983 sounds interesting BUT I think the price point is a little high considering you can get a A20/A30 with a ABT chip for the same price.

The A20/A30 only have ABT scaling, not the precision deinterlacing that comes with the ABT102 chip in the 983. See this this post earlier in this thread.
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post #202 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebScud View Post

Aye. I just learned of the 980H making my 981HD look outdated, now there's another? YUM.

I wouldn't say that the 980H makes your 981HD outdated. The only things that th e980H offers over the 981HD are a component video output and a 7.1 analog output (instead of 5.1). The 981HD still has a more sophisticated video chip.

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post #203 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 07:33 PM
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They should just make it a pure transport w/ HDMI, IR In/Out, RS232, composite, and digital coax for $199.

It's going to be tough justifying this over an HD DVD player especially if they get reviewed as having good deinterlacing.

DVD is dying and Oppo's designing products that are more $$$. Who can blame them? It will sell, kind of.

I'm trying to keep my HDMI devices under 4.

*I'll second the changer comment below, but take credit for it as if I said it first .

This bloody Redcoat said I was a terrorist.

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cheap bastards who call themselves my AV Hobbyist peers.
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post #204 of 2145 Old 09-29-2007, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

why dont they make a changer too

I would be ALL OVER that!
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post #205 of 2145 Old 09-30-2007, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasV555 View Post

DVD is dying and Oppo's designing products that are more $$$. Who can blame them? It will sell, kind of.

You answer your own inquiry. The reason why OPPO is offering a top tier DVD player is precisely because DVD players will become a more niche product. If you look at it from a manufacturer's standpoint, a high-end piece of equipment is a great way of increasing your brand awareness.

The type of people who will be buying the DV-983H are not the typical consumer (ie. brick and mortor purchasers) who is going to be driven by comparative costs. OPPO is not interested in these consumers, as their purpose right now is brand building. The unit will not be a large seller, but it will be economically profitable and increase OPPO brand awareness.
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post #206 of 2145 Old 09-30-2007, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The reason why OPPO is offering a top tier DVD player is precisely because DVD players will become a more niche product.

I think this new DVD player could do extremely well in PAL territories. There are probably many home theatre enthusiasts who bought Region 1 & Region 3 DVD's over their native Region 2 or Region 4. Movies on PAL suffer from a 4% speed up. Movies aimed at NTSC displays don't. Many people therefore bought Region 1 and suffered the resolution drop over the 4% speedup. Also in the early days of DVD, Region 1 had a much larger catalog and better extras. And still to this day a movie is likely to be released on Region 1 DVD many months before it has a Region 2 or 4 release. In some cases a movie is available on R1 even before it has hit the theatre in PAL territories.

As far as I am aware, no HD-DVD player or Blu-Ray player gives the ability to play DVD's outside its region. And there is no unlock to be able to do this. Therefore those people in PAL territories wanting the best for their legacy DVD's will be looking for DVD players that allow them to get the best out of their legacy DVD collection on their HD displays.
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post #207 of 2145 Old 09-30-2007, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Movie View Post

It seems like all this great deinterlacer stuff with inverse 3:2 pulldown and the equivalent for PAL will all be wasted if they just send the frames out as they are recorded on the disc? So if one was going to use 24fps almost all the time, maybe a cheaper player is all that is required? Am I missing something?

I noticed that nobody has answered this question.

Even if film frames are stored progressively on a DVD, the MPEG decoder chip always outputs interlaced fields. That's why a deinterlacer is required to reassemble the progressive frames.

In theory, an MPEG decoder could be designed to output progressive frames, but how would it handle 60fps video content then? It cannot rely on the progressive/interlaced flags on the DVD, because they are notoriously inaccurate. The DVD format was originally created for interlaced playback, so it does not guarantee flawless progressive frames. In fact, the majority of DVDs are riddled with problems, such as mixed progressive/interlaced frames, bad edits, and incorrect or alternating flags. The decoder would go bonkers in such conditions.

So a cheaper player is not the answer... a sophisticated deinterlacing processor is required to detect the cadence correctly (in spite of what the flags may say) and then to reassemble progressive frames or perform sensible motion-adaptive de-interlacing on interlaced material.

Gary
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post #208 of 2145 Old 10-01-2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Movie View Post

+100 Absolutely this might indeed be their last SD-DVD universal player, we need 24Hz output. Almost all my viewing is DVD, this would really help maintain the life of peoples existing SD-DVD library.

1080p24 only helps if your display accepts it, and then if it has an internal refresh rate that is a multiple of 24. (Some Pio plasmas refresh at 72Hz.) Otherwise, you have the same old judder problem of 24fps to 60Hz, which is what most displays work at. A 1080p24 player is useless if the display can't properly use that output.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #209 of 2145 Old 10-01-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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i just got the oppo 981 - using it with sony xbr4 32 inch

i heard that its the best of the bunch right now - but do you think the 980H is better ??

i read reviews that say the 981 has the better processor
but the 980H is the newer model -

so far the 981 shows great - any advice as to which is better or worse and for what reason - or better yet - which would be better for my set -- if anyone else has the 32 inch xbr4

thanks
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post #210 of 2145 Old 10-01-2007, 07:42 PM
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The 981HD offers better video performance than the 980H as long as macroblocking is not a problem (which it shouldn't be with your display). Just because the 980H is newer doesn't change this: as I posted the other day, the 981HD uses a separate dedicated chip for scaling and deinterlacing (the Genesis Faroudja) that can produce a smoother picture than the Mediatek chip can by itself. The 980H has a better multichannel analog section (which, as far as I can tell, you wouldn't be using either way) and some might find it to be a more handsome piece of hardware (I prefer the industrial design of the 980H to the 981HD), but that doesn't change the fact that the 981HD costs $60 more for a very specific reason.

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