Pioneer Elite DV-58AV - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1057 Old 07-18-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdacop View Post

Kal,

Does the update cover all DV-58s or is it serial number dependent?

Thanks,

BdaC

Do not know but you can call Pioneer service and ask. I did not bother with looking at the SN (although I think it is of pretty recent vintage) but had specific performance issues.

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post #362 of 1057 Old 07-18-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Kal: If you prefer using a high-quality receiver for digital-to-analog processing, why do you have a DV-58AV that does the same thing via the analog pre-outs, as opposed to using a less expensive HDMI 1.2A transport?

Such as? The only ones are the DV-48 and the Oppos. You can check my column for my answers.

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post #363 of 1057 Old 07-20-2008, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

Anyway, I got my 58 for $400 and it plays ok and has terrific build quality and is highly likely to sound better than the vaporware 983 OPPO.

I've heard both and I don't believe you'll find that the 58 sounds better than 983 Oppo through the analog outs.
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post #364 of 1057 Old 07-20-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

Anyway, I got my 58 for $400 and it plays ok and has terrific build quality and is highly likely to sound better than the vaporware 983 OPPO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinxMeister View Post

I've heard both and I don't believe you'll find that the 58 sounds better than 983 Oppo through the analog outs.


You _own_ both the Elite 58 and the OPPO 983? If not, do you own even one of them?


Cheers
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post #365 of 1057 Old 07-20-2008, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

You _own_ both the Elite 58 and the OPPO 983? If not, do you own even one of them?


Cheers

If you are in to SACD, I believe the 983 converts SACD's DSD to PCM before it reaches the analog outputs. (I know some prefer DSD-to-PCM conversions, others don't care, and others like myself prefer pure DSD, but to each his/her own.) After researching a few receivers for around $599, I've noticed that they either convert DSD to PCM (the Yamaha RX-V663 and the Pioneer VS-X1018), or I can't connect my passive 10" sub to it (the Onkyo TX-SR606 and the Pioneer VXS-1018). Now I'm back to choosing a DVD player with DSD analog output. Even if the analog output is better in the Marantz DV7001, I am hesitant about pulling the trigger on that one because it uses the same falty Philips firmware my POC Yamaha DVD-C750 changer uses. So guess what ... My research has led me full circle back to the Pioneer Elite DV-58AV, at least for now.
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post #366 of 1057 Old 07-20-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

You _own_ both the Elite 58 and the OPPO 983? If not, do you own even one of them?


Cheers

I have a 983 and my friend has the Elite DV-58AV. We spent hours comparing the two hooked into both our systems through the analog outs. We both agree the differences are very minor with the nod going to the 983. YMMV and all that stuff.
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post #367 of 1057 Old 07-20-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

You _own_ both the Elite 58 and the OPPO 983? If not, do you own even one of them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MinxMeister View Post

I have a 983 and my friend has the Elite DV-58AV. We spent hours comparing the two hooked into both our systems through the analog outs. We both agree the differences are very minor with the nod going to the 983. YMMV and all that stuff.


So now your friend is sorry that he got the Elite 58?


Cheers


p.s. Out of curiosity, what AVR (s?) did you use?
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post #368 of 1057 Old 07-21-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

If you are in to SACD, ...





Yes, I'm "in to" SACD.

fwiw, most SACD discs (95+%) are dual layer, with the 2nd layer being CD. Given that they do modern processing for the SACD layer, you'd think that the CD layer would sound as good, but noooo it almost never does.

My setup is Marantz 8001 player (SACD & CD; 2 channel only for SACD), going in "direct" (2 channel only) to Denon 3808 AVR (all equalization turned off, including sub)

I don't use my 58 this way. I use it (and an OPPO 981) in the same system, but set up for 5.1 playback with equalization and 2 subs, both (58 and 981) via 5.1 analog output. The 58 sounds better than the 981. It's immediately noticable.


Cheers


p.s. Nice upgrade in process for front L/R, but that's another long story.

With the 8001, the *magic* is back in my listening of CD/SACD music. It's almost there with the 58 (for 5.1 movies), and a bit of a disappointment with the 981.

I'll give the 981 one thing: it's visual is very slightly better than that of the 58, but it's strictly on static stuff. (Zoom, and step forward being the 2 that I've so far used/noticed.)

So I'd expect the OPPO 983 to be even a slight bit better on static visual stuff, which I frankly don't care all that much about. I mean, I've got an A35 Toshiba, and 70 hi def movies that I can play any time I want to pant over hi def visual, which I never do; and the hi def audio (on even the best of my HD-DVD discs) has at best been a disappointment.
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post #369 of 1057 Old 07-25-2008, 05:57 AM
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The DV-58AV is the North American equivalent of your players. Your contributions to this thread would be greatly appreciated as well. In fact, too bad this thread can't be renamed 'Pioneer DV-800AV/DV-LX50/Elite DV-58AV!' Likewise, there should be a single thread for the DV-600AV/Elite DV-48AV, another one for the DV-610AV/DV-49AV, etc.
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post #370 of 1057 Old 08-12-2008, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

So now your friend is sorry that he got the Elite 58?

Yes, but he managed to unload it on someone for $200.




Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

p.s. Out of curiosity, what AVR (s?) did you use?

VSX-94TXH and VSX-37TX both feeding power amps thru L/R pre-outs.
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post #371 of 1057 Old 08-13-2008, 06:21 AM
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I need help with a problem I have with the 58AV. My system is based around a two channel audio system for the front speakers and I am using the analog outputs on the 58. I have set the center channel to off in the speaker configuration menu to set up the phantom center channel. I have found that the center channel is only in phantom mode when there is an HDMI device connected, the HDMI device is on, and a handshake has taken place. For all other circumstances (including pushing the pure audio button which, of course, disconnects the HDMI device) the center channel is turned back on and I lose phantom center channel information. I have verified that the setup menu still indicates the center channel is off when the HDMI device is disconnected by viewing the menus via S-Video.

1) Have I missed anything is the setup menus?
2) Could someone please verify this problem? (It might help with my ongoing dialog with Pioneer, they've had the problem since early July.)

Thanks.
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post #372 of 1057 Old 08-16-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habnab View Post

So now your friend is sorry that he got the Elite 58?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinxMeister View Post

Yes, but he managed to unload it on someone for $200.

I've learned to keep my eyes open for exactly this kind of deal.

Cheers
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post #373 of 1057 Old 08-16-2008, 10:24 PM
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anyone want to send one my way for $200 I have cash in hand!
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post #374 of 1057 Old 08-18-2008, 07:52 PM
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Anyone have any problems with "thunks" or "clunks" (Is there a difference?) via HDMI when loading a disc?
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post #375 of 1057 Old 08-20-2008, 09:51 PM
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It seems to meet my requirements for the present and the future. For the present, I can use it with my Yamaha HTR-5935 5.1 receiver via the 5.1 analog out. Based on what I've read, it uses the Burr Brown PCM1796, one of the best DACs. The DV-58AV's dynamic range and s/n ratio specs fall only 5 dBs short of the DACs' full potential, which is pretty good for the player's $500 price. I have read dynamic range and S/N ratio specs on other DVD players, costing between $350 and $850, and I have seen instances where the DACs and analog sections have fallen between approximately 6 and 20 dBs short of each other as far as dynamic range and s/n ratio specs are concerned. With the speakers set to 'Large' and subwoofer set to 'On,' and being that speaker distance settings have no affect during SACD playback, DSD is converted straight to analog as opposed to being converted to PCM first. For the future, it features HDMI 1.2A so that when I'm ready to upgrade my TV and receiver, I can get rid of my cable clutter, and more important, keep everything in the pure digital domain. I have a good feeling that it can be made region free with that famous Pioneer region free IR code. I do have a small question regarding the DV-58AV's 5.1 channel analog performance. After reading the DV-58AV's manual, I noticed that there is no speaker level adjustment option. With your receiver's speaker levels set to 0dB/nutral, is LFE performance strong, weak, or normal? No big deal either way. I just want to be prepared for what kinds of adjustments I might have to make.
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post #376 of 1057 Old 08-21-2008, 12:19 PM
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It could be a matter of anywhere from a week to three weeks before it arives depending on whether it can be shipped from a nearby distributor or will have to be special-ordered from Pioneer. As soon as UPS delivers it to my house, once I've set it up and have played with it for a while, I will let you know what I think. I have a feeling the DV-58AV's audio/video performance will be so great that it will be a major task for others in my household to snatch the TV from me--LOL! If all my theories about the internal components and the written specs were incorrect, then I will confess to being a closed-minded, stubbern idiot who comes here to tell the newbes not to make the same mistakes I've made. On the other hand, if my theories turn out to be right and this player is one of the greatest things since sliced bread, then long-live the DV-58AV/DV-LX50/DV-800AV and its thread here at AVS!
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post #377 of 1057 Old 08-22-2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

It could be a matter of anywhere from a week to three weeks before it arives depending on whether it can be shipped from a nearby distributor or will have to be special-ordered from Pioneer. As soon as UPS delivers it to my house, once I've set it up and have played with it for a while, I will let you know what I think.

I think you'll like it, at least I do; and I'm glad I went for the 58 as opposed to the OPPO 983, because of the 58 likely sounding better and the video being good enough. If you wanted the "best" DVD video quality, you should have gone with the OPPO 983.

I'm also impressed with the build quality of the 58.

See Kal's July review: http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/708mitr

Cheers
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post #378 of 1057 Old 08-22-2008, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by habnab View Post

I think you'll like it, at least I do; and I'm glad I went for the 58 as opposed to the OPPO 983, because of the 58 likely sounding better and the video being good enough. If you wanted the "best" DVD video quality, you should have gone with the OPPO 983.

I'm also impressed with the build quality of the 58.

See Kal's July review: http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/708mitr

Cheers

I have a ten-year-old CRT (which my mom doesn't want to replace until its tube dies or something) with an RF modulator which includes Composite and S-video inputs. I have a feeling that it's going to last for quite some time. Therefore, the 983H would be a total waste right now. I need something with top-quality analog A/V outputs for my current system, as well as the latest version of HDMI for the future. Marantz and Denon have some DVD players with nice analog sections, but the HDMI output is unfortunately version 1.1 on those. Oppos make great A/V transports, especially with the 980H's HDMI 1.2A output, but their analog output quality isn't the greatest, which I'm sure is what helps cut their prices. Pioneer's DV-48AV's analog output specs are a little better than the 980H's, but it converts SACD's DSD to PCM before it reaches the analog outputs. I think the DV-58AV is just the thing I'm looking for in order to accomidate my current system, as well as my future one. I know some people would think it's stupid to spend $500 on an SD player when you could get Blu-ray players for the same price. Right now, out of my whole SDDVD collection, only six or seven of those titles are available on Blu-ray. None of the Blu-ray players can play true DSD anyway. I'm hoping that by 2010, the Blu-ray catalog will be big enough for me to want to upgrade. But until then, I would like to end my SDDVD/CD/SACD days in style and with a bang! So don't ya think I came to the right place with the DV-58AV?
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post #379 of 1057 Old 08-23-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Right now, out of my whole SDDVD collection, only six or seven of those titles are available on Blu-ray. None of the Blu-ray players can play true DSD anyway. I'm hoping that by 2010, the Blu-ray catalog will be big enough for me to want to upgrade.

The problems for Blu-ray are money and time.

Money as in it stills costs too bloody much; Beta lost because of money, and I'm sure Sony hasn't forgotten that lesson.

Time as in time-window for a new format to succeed, which is not as open-ended as it was in the recent past. Sony knows that, but Hollywood doesn't have a clue, as copy protection is 1st in their minds, behind profits of course.

Cheers
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post #380 of 1057 Old 08-23-2008, 11:57 AM
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Are you into multi-region? If so, have you tried to make the DV-58AV multi-region compatible? Also, does the DV-58AV have vent holes on top? I hope it doesn't because I'd like to be able to stack my cable box on top of it.
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post #381 of 1057 Old 08-26-2008, 05:38 PM
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No the DV-58 does not have vents on top
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post #382 of 1057 Old 08-29-2008, 05:57 PM
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Within a few hours, I installed it, compared it to other equipment, and got the sound and picture settings calibrated to my liking.

Before I begin with my comments, I just want to remind you that I use Composite video and analog 5.1 audio pre-output as opposed to Component video and HDMI.

The goods definitly outweigh the bads. I say we should get the bads over with first so we can look forward to the goods. As far as making it region-free, I sent that famous IR signal. It turned off. However, it would still spit out all my Region 2 DVDs. As sure as I am that the firmware for the DV-800AV found at http://www.pioneerfaq.info/index.php?question=Firmwares will work with the DV-58AV US model, I have had bad luck updating firmware on my Plextor PC DVD burner. Its disc read performance seemed to gradually get worse and worse. So therefore, I feel very uneasy about messing with firmware on a $500 piece of equipment. So if there is an alternate remote hack out there, please let us know! I know it will be a pain in the ---, but when my schedule is free, I will copy all of my Region 2 DVDs on to DVD+RDLs. I tested my DV-58AV with a regionless Pal retail DVD, and the Pal-to-NTSC conversion was great! Which brings me to my next minor issue. I tried the procedure for switching the European DV-LX50 output between NTSC, Pal, and AUTO. This is another function that is not available on the US model. However, because of its heavy build quality and its high-quality Pal-to-NTSC conversion (which is as close to raw Pal as you can get), that's no problem for me.

Now on to the good stuff! When playing DVDs on my Yamaha changer, I find myself adjusting the video settings to nutral for TV viewing, and for DVD viewing, increasing the contrast so I could see the darker scenes better, messing up the color quality in the process. However, with the new DV-58AV, I can leave the TV's and DVD player's video settings to nutral whether I watch TV or DVDs, and the picture remains clear and the colors remain natural. When it comes to audio, I thought my Yamaha receiver's audio was the best when using its DACs. I always thought it was too bad I couldn't play DSD via a digital connection because the 5.1 analog pre-outs on my Yamaha changer lack the extreme low and high frequencies in comparison to using the DACs in my receiver. However, when I watched a movie with a DTS 5.1 audio stream via the DV-58AV's Composite video and 5.1 analog pre-outs, the performance of the low and high frequencies blew my receiver's DACs out of the water! The LFE channel now actually produces true deep bass, as opposed to being blasted out of my seat with an overemphosys(sp?) on the middle bass frequencies in order to hear the lower bass frequencies. Now when I play movies via my receiver's digital input, it sounds a little muffled when comparing it to my new DV-58AV. When I popped an SACD into my DV-58AV, I couldn't believe the difference those harmonic overtones from SACD's high frequency response really make!

As an added bonus, it's assuring to know that I will be ready for the future with a player that has a build quality that should make for great durability. Also, HDMI 1.3 makes me even more future proof so when I finally upgrade to all HDMI equipment, I will finally be able to get rid of my cable clutter!

I know there some skeptics of this player out there as a result of the advent of Blu-ray, as well as the Anchor Bay video processing in the Oppo DV-983H, but the DV-983H's build quality and analog sections aren't as good as the DV-58AV. However, if you want the best from your SDDVD and DVD-A/SACD collections, I think you're getting a lot of bang for your buck with the Pioneer Elite DV-58AV. So ... Long live the Pioneer Elite DV-58AV and its thread here at AVS!
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post #383 of 1057 Old 08-29-2008, 08:47 PM
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I see Vann's has this unit on their website for a lot cheaper now but its on order, so who knows when they will actually get stock.
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post #384 of 1057 Old 08-29-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jame View Post

I need help with a problem I have with the 58AV. My system is based around a two channel audio system for the front speakers and I am using the analog outputs on the 58. I have set the center channel to off in the speaker configuration menu to set up the phantom center channel. I have found that the center channel is only in phantom mode when there is an HDMI device connected, the HDMI device is on, and a handshake has taken place. For all other circumstances (including pushing the pure audio button which, of course, disconnects the HDMI device) the center channel is turned back on and I lose phantom center channel information. I have verified that the setup menu still indicates the center channel is off when the HDMI device is disconnected by viewing the menus via S-Video.

1) Have I missed anything is the setup menus?
2) Could someone please verify this problem? (It might help with my ongoing dialog with Pioneer, they've had the problem since early July.)

Thanks.

Jame,

I use the analog multi-channel outputs and on some SACD's I only get the center channel with the TV on. The dealer sent the unit to Pioneer and I got it back a month later with no fix. Still no center channel without the TV and i don't think Pioneer is going to do anything about it.

BTW, I don't use the stereo outputs just the MCH outputs.

I don't know if this helps, but it sounds like a similar problem.
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post #385 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdacop View Post

Jame,

I use the analog multi-channel outputs and on some SACD's I only get the center channel with the TV on. The dealer sent the unit to Pioneer and I got it back a month later with no fix. Still no center channel without the TV and i don't think Pioneer is going to do anything about it.

BTW, I don't use the stereo outputs just the MCH outputs.

I don't know if this helps, but it sounds like a similar problem.

If you prefer two-channel stereo playback, you should set the analog output and SACD playback area to two-channel. Of course if you use a subwoofer, then you do have an issue.
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post #386 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdacop View Post

Jame,

I use the analog multi-channel outputs and on some SACD's I only get the center channel with the TV on. The dealer sent the unit to Pioneer and I got it back a month later with no fix. Still no center channel without the TV and i don't think Pioneer is going to do anything about it.

BTW, I don't use the stereo outputs just the MCH outputs.

I don't know if this helps, but it sounds like a similar problem.

Interesting, I can tell you that for every disk I have checked, when the HDMI is disconnected the phantom channel is disabled and the audio is again physically available on the center channel jack. Also, using the 58 to decode film tracks to analog works just fine with HDMI disconnected (irony). This seems to be a problem only for SACDs.

I have received the following from Pioneer:

I finally received an answer from our engineering group and they stated that disconnecting the HDMI or turning on the pure audio should not cause the center to return to the on position. The engineers have stated that this unit needs to be checked out by service since this is not normal operation.

This would seem to acknowledge the problem; the next step is to get them to do something about it.
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post #387 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 03:04 PM
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I tried turning off the center channel speaker. For Dolby Digital movie streams, the center track was rerouted to the front speakers. However, I then tried a song on the multi-channel area of an SACD, and the center track was still sent to the center speaker, as opposed to being rerouted to the front speakers. After all I have learned so far about DSD and PCM, I then realized that SACD's DSD cannot be downmixed unless it is converted to PCM. One of Pioneer's intents in designing the DV-58AV was to allow audiovideophiles like us to experience true DSD without any loss of quality (which can happen as a result of DSD-to-PCM conversion. I have five full-range speakers and a big subwoofer. So this isn't a problem for me. In fact, it's really to my advantage! If you need downmixing for SACD, you should then look elsewhere. I hope this makes it much clearer for all of you!
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post #388 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 04:20 PM
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Jame,

Sounds like the 58 has some issues that Pioneer's not addressing. When my unit was at their service center in San Diego they told the vendor that there's no problem with the unit and there was no published fix.

Trying to get them to fix something, especially since it's not a current unit, is going to be a challenge. I'm glad I still have a Sony 999ES that still sounds & works great in my 4 channel configuration.

Good luck with Pio.

BdaC
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post #389 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

I tried turning off the center channel speaker. For Dolby Digital movie streams, the center track was rerouted to the front speakers. However, I then tried a song on the multi-channel area of an SACD, and the center track was still sent to the center speaker, as opposed to being rerouted to the front speakers. After all I have learned so far about DSD and PCM, I then realized that SACD's DSD cannot be downmixed unless it is converted to PCM. One of Pioneer's intents in designing the DV-58AV was to allow audiovideophiles like us to experience true DSD without any loss of quality (which can happen as a result of DSD-to-PCM conversion. I have five full-range speakers and a big subwoofer. So this isn't a problem for me. In fact, it's really to my advantage! If you need downmixing for SACD, you should then look elsewhere. I hope this makes it much clearer for all of you!

VP,

Your configuration is different. I'm using the unit in an analog 4 channel configuration for music without a center channel. I've used this configuration successfully for the past 4 - 5 years and I've always had a phanthom center channel with a Sony SACD player and a Toshiba 9200 DVD Audio player.

I know there's something wrong with my unit.
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post #390 of 1057 Old 08-30-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdacop View Post

VP,

Your configuration is different. I'm using the unit in an analog 4 channel configuration for music without a center channel. I've used this configuration successfully for the past 4 - 5 years and I've always had a phanthom center channel with a Sony SACD player and a Toshiba 9200 DVD Audio player.

I know there's something wrong with my unit.

The tests I performed before my last post were done by going into the DV-58AV's Speaker Installation screen and turning the center speaker off. If you don't have a physical center speaker in your system, movie audio will play fine. However, you will be missing the sound from the center channel during SACD playback because the DV-58AV does not perform DSD-to-PCM conversion. This makes downmixing impossible. Maybe your Sony performs DSD-to-PCM conversion, making time alignment, bass management, and downmixing possible during SACD playback. If you still don't get my point, I will keep trying to explain until you understand.
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