Pioneer Elite DV-58AV - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerlk View Post

Trying to decide on this vs the Oppo 983, 981, 980. Uzsing it for muti-channel SACD & DVD-A only. I have a high end tube SACD player for 2 channel SACD and redbook. Using it with an Anthem D2 v2. Other than Vanns no one else has it.

I happen to own all four of these units (the Pioneer and the Oppos). The 58AV and 980 are the only ones that output DSD via HDMI (if that matters to you). The 983 is likely the best at upscaling SD DVDs to 1080p (if that matters to you). The 58AV has the most polished interface (IMHO).

I can't say if the 58AV is still current or not. I did get mine for a *really* good price (last one the place had).
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post #632 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post

I happen to own all four of these units (the Pioneer and the Oppos). The 58AV and 980 are the only ones that output DSD via HDMI (if that matters to you). The 983 is likely the best at upscaling SD DVDs to 1080p (if that matters to you). The 58AV has the most polished interface (IMHO).

I can't say if the 58AV is still current or not. I did get mine for a *really* good price (last one the place had).

Thanks for the input, the DSD over HDMI is important and I am leaning towards the 58AV, just don't know why it is not readily available. I am wondering if there is a model change on the way.
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post #633 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerlk View Post

Thanks for the input, the DSD over HDMI is important and I am leaning towards the 58AV, just don't know why it is not readily available. I am wondering if there is a model change on the way.

It's discountinued and likely no more new models from Pioneer. See page 20, post#599.
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post #634 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 10:15 AM
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So I don't confuse another x05 onkyo user, the DSD Direct delay setting should be set to no, not yes as my previous post said. From the 905 manual:

Direct Setting
Delay Enable

DSD
This setting determines whether or not DSD (SACD)
audio signals are passed through the DSP for A/V Sync,
delay, etc., processing when the Direct listening mode is
selected.
No:
DSD signals are not processed by the DSP.
Yes:
DSD signals are processed by the DSP.


However, when you set this option to yes, you no longer see DSD Direct, but only Direct when in Direct mode.

If you read further in the manual, it is noted:

"*1. In listening modes other than DSD Direct and Pure Audio, DSD sources are converted and handled as PCM."

This leads me to believe this DSD is not directly converted to anlalog if processed by the internal DSPs, but rather DSD->PCM->analog.

What is more interesting is the 906 manual says this:
"*1. DSD sources are converted and handled as PCM." on page 87.

But the DSD option is still present in the manual apparently:
DSD Setting
■ DAC Direct
This setting determines whether or not DSD (SACD)
audio signals are passed through the DSP for A/V Sync,
delay, etc., processing when the Pure Audio or Direct listening
mode is selected.
No: DSD signals are processed by the DSP
(default).
Yes: DSD signals are not processed by the DSP.

I'm not so sure if I would buy a 906 over a 905 if the 906 converts the DSD to PCM; however, I'm not sure I would be able to tell the diference in sound either. A few differences are note are that my 905 is made in Japan and the 906 is made in Malaysia. The 906 has more video options and appears to be more useful in this category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Yes and no. If I want to manage LFE based on format type, I can. However, I believe this requires the 905 convert the DSD to PCM. Basically, there is a setting called something like DSD Direct, and I set it to yes supposedly I am getting DSD->analog according to the manual, but setting this to yes bypasses this nifty LFE option for DSD. I thought about raising the LFE for DD, DD+, TrueHD etc and lowering the actual subwoofer level, but I can only lower the LFE for various formats, not raise them


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post #635 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 10:22 AM
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Fox and others,

Do you know of any SACD that produces LFE white noise at reference level? I would also want to get a DVD-A that did the same thing and probably do it for DD+, TrueHD etc. Any input/corrections on my thinking is welcome :-)

My thinking is I could use roomEQ to measure the dB from the sub with the Onkyo 905 main volume set to 0dB. roomEQ (free sub calibration tool) is necessary since the typical spl radio shack meter is inaccurate when it comes to low frequencies (I think). I would then make macros that send discete sub levels via rs232 to the 905 that would set these reference recordings for SACDs, DVD-As to the correct level.

Thanks in advance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

DVD-A records LFE 10 db lower than normal. SACDs tend not to do this. On my Pioneer Elite 92 receiver, there is an option for SACD LFE attenuation to lower sub level only for SACD (DSD). If you use your 905 to play DSD from HDMI, you may have that option as well.


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post #636 of 1057 Old 04-21-2009, 10:30 AM
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I've been getting all of mine from ebay. I just started collecting DVD-A and SACD, so I was shocked at the amazon prices. However, the quality of a good multichannel DVD-A blows away anything I have ever heard. My favorite so far is Eagles Hotel California. There is also a Fleetwood Mac album that is supposed to have excellent audio quality, but the ebay price is $60+ and much more on amazon.

There is also a UK store if you google search, but I haven't ordered from them yet as I'm in the US. They seem to have good prices and selection.

If you get a DVD-A from ebay, you can always use DVDAExplorer to check whether or not it's encrypted, bit rates, compression, mlp or pcm etc... This will give you an idea of whether or not it is genuine. I haven't ran into a fake yet on ebay, but I would stay away from the 5 year old discs that have never been opened and focus on the used discs only.

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Originally Posted by mahdlokg View Post

Glad to be of help Dan. I bought mine for exactly the same reason. If you have any tips regarding good places to pick up DVD-A & SACD discs, please let me know. I can't believe some of the ones I passed up for $20.00 a couple of years ago are bringing "collectible" prices now!!!


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post #637 of 1057 Old 04-23-2009, 06:37 PM
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Does this player have a feature where you can bypass the previews and go right to the main movie menu? I tried hitting top menu and it wouldn't do it.
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post #638 of 1057 Old 05-05-2009, 09:01 AM
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A simple question:
I have a chance to replace my oldie Elite DV-45a with one of these (Elite DV-58AV). Does it make sense from a pure analog multichannel point of view?
Thanks

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post #639 of 1057 Old 05-05-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeeling View Post

A simple question:
I have a chance to replace my oldie Elite DV-45a with one of these (Elite DV-58AV). Does it make sense from a pure analog multichannel point of view?
Thanks

I'd hurry up and get one while you've got the chance!
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post #640 of 1057 Old 05-05-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

I'd hurry up and get one while you've got the chance!

The 58 is better than my old 47ai which is way better than my brother's 45. Yes, definitely, the video quality is really bad on the 45 too, never mind the audio.
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post #641 of 1057 Old 05-05-2009, 05:24 PM
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Thanks guys,
If everything goes as planed I'll snatch one this weekend.

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post #642 of 1057 Old 05-07-2009, 06:45 PM
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I got it . Guess my weekend starts early
For the very good price too (better than Vann's).
And guess what: there are two more available - brand new in the box, plus one demo on the floor (yes it is a store).
If anybody in the vicinity is interested, PM me for details.

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post #643 of 1057 Old 05-12-2009, 11:48 AM
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So here is the lowdown of my weekend experience with the player.

First a bad/good thing: I had to replace the unit I got on Thursday as I noticed a slight clicking noise when the disk tray retracts (a bad thing). I replaced it on Saturday with another one that seems to be working just fine (a good thing). As this is probably my last universal player, I didn't want to take any chances. Hopefully it will live to Pioneers reliability reputation (my 45-a is six years old and still running flawlessly). The fact that it has 3 years warranty here in Canada helps as well.

Now let me make a few things clear - I have no HDMI whatsoever on any of my equipment (well, other than this player now), so my connection is component to plasma and 5.1 analog to receiver/pre.

First thing I noticed is how well built 2-ch analog audio outs are and how much better they look than 5.1-ch outs do. To my exhilaration, I found a note on page 36 of the manual that states that only FL and FR channel are outputted through 2-ch out if 5.1 analog out is selected. So guess what, my FL and FR are connected to 2-ch out while the rest of the channels are connected to appropriate 5.1-ch outs and everything works flawlessly.

A word about upconversion over component: The table on page 15 of the manual is dead on. No upconversion for DVD regardless of your resolution settings. I even tried a ripped DVD, stripped of all copy protection, still no love. I checked some DivX (avi) files, and they are upconverted exactly as stated in the table. Didn't have any JPG's on disc to try, but I assume it'll work the same for them.

Definitely no blacker than black over component (my 45-a did pass blacker than black), but regardless picture is much better. This is the first player I hooked up to my plasma that beats it in VHQ test patterns.

Regardless, I bought this player firstly and foremostly as a hi-res audio player. I spent most of the time fiddling and setting it up so I didn't have much time to really sit and listen, but my first impressions are quite favorable.

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post #644 of 1057 Old 05-12-2009, 12:05 PM
 
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I like Pioneer,I don't have a dvd,but I want to get one
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post #645 of 1057 Old 05-13-2009, 09:25 AM
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It's not that I can't live without BTB. As I said, overall picture is better than it was on 45-a. At this point this player is all I need. If I ever feel the need for a better SD DVD playback I believe I would go Oppo route. But all that is pointless with my current plasma, which is only 480p.
As far as BD playback goes, I don't think I'll ever buy a disc player. There are plenty of streamers that can handle that just fine.

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post #646 of 1057 Old 05-13-2009, 05:34 PM
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If only

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post #647 of 1057 Old 05-22-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

With a properly designed receiver, you can:

1. Without ever turning on TV, turn on receiver and player and you should be able to play DVD-A and SACD w/o problem.

2. If you initially had TV on when you play your DVD-A or SACD, don't turn the TV off ever. If you do, the HDCP link is broken and you will get what you described, an intended result mandated by HDCP.

#1 worked on my Pioneer Elite receiver but I know some other brands don't work.
#2 is the result of HDCP. without HDCP, we will never get to enjoy hi-res Audio via HDMI link. So, live with it.


Unfortunately I have a SC-05 and a DV-58AV and I still get the same audio dropout over HDMI with the TV off. Doesn't matter if it is CD, SACD, or DVD-A material, same dropout. Know of anything settings I can change amongst the components that would help this out? I have a Mitsubishi DLP, even with it off when I attempt to play material I get the dropouts. I hate to leave it on all the time, burning up that bulb.
Mike
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post #648 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 01:42 AM
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I have an SC-05 and was looking to upgrade to the DV-58av as well. What exact drop outs are you getting through the HDMI output. Is this cd, dvd audio and sacd only? Are movies dropping out as well? I ask because the receiver will not properly decode DD+ hddvd's. The same audio dropouts happen on Paramount, Weinstein and Universal titles with the SC-05 every few minutes.
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post #649 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 08:33 AM
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I have a 905 with the same issue. However, when I set it to HDMI Off, I am able to play things without a tv just fine. With Onkyo, you can actually send an hdmi off command via rs232 so tihs was an easy solution for me as I use Premise (free program found here: http://www.cocoontech.com/wiki/Premise) to control my home theater.

FYI: the tv I'm using is samsung. I really don't think this is a tv problem. Too bad the receiver can't automatically disable HDMI out the third time it tries to handshake or something like that :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmj811998 View Post

Unfortunately I have a SC-05 and a DV-58AV and I still get the same audio dropout over HDMI with the TV off. Doesn't matter if it is CD, SACD, or DVD-A material, same dropout. Know of anything settings I can change amongst the components that would help this out? I have a Mitsubishi DLP, even with it off when I attempt to play material I get the dropouts. I hate to leave it on all the time, burning up that bulb.
Mike


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post #650 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 09:02 AM
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What firmware versions do you run?
There was a fix for noise when connecting ONKYO's amplifier by HDMI and when opening the tray etc, in FW Version:YGD8611A

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post #651 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 12:14 PM
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8827 i thnk... i'm not home to check, but it was the latest available a few months ago

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post #652 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I have an SC-05 and was looking to upgrade to the DV-58av as well. What exact drop outs are you getting through the HDMI output. Is this cd, dvd audio and sacd only? Are movies dropping out as well? I ask because the receiver will not properly decode DD+ hddvd's. The same audio dropouts happen on Paramount, Weinstein and Universal titles with the SC-05 every few minutes.

Found the solution, just bought a new TV. Looks like my old Mitsubishi DLP was causing the error, not sure how but if I unplugged the HDMI cable running from the SC-05 to the TV, no dropouts in audio. Dropouts were only noticed with SACD, DVD-A and CD material played over the HDMI to the SC-05 while the TV was off. Switched to a Samsung LCD and now I have no problems. The DV-58 gets my endorsement. I don't use it for video so I am not sure how it does in that department, I use it as a transport for music only, and have been pleased with it.
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post #653 of 1057 Old 05-24-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmj811998 View Post

Found the solution, just bought a new TV. Looks like my old Mitsubishi DLP was causing the error, not sure how but if I unplugged the HDMI cable running from the SC-05 to the TV, no dropouts in audio. Dropouts were only noticed with SACD, DVD-A and CD material played over the HDMI to the SC-05 while the TV was off. Switched to a Samsung LCD and now I have no problems. The DV-58 gets my endorsement. I don't use it for video so I am not sure how it does in that department, I use it as a transport for music only, and have been pleased with it.

Unless you have a DVD player with high-end video processing, you really should try the DV-58AV for movies as well. You might be surprised!
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post #654 of 1057 Old 06-05-2009, 04:56 PM
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Well I just connected my new 58. Upgraded from 47ai. Paid CAN350 new. Sold my 47ai for CAN150, so it cost me CAN250 with taxes. Watched my first DVD at 480P and am very pleased. Almost HD quality. Big jump from the 47's component out to 58's HDMI. Audio, I hear an improvement in micro detail and bottom end. Bought unit based on what I have read here on AVS. I needed a SD universal player with HDMI and good 2-channel analog out. Was looking at used 5910 or 3930 but read a lot about units needing service. Just thought I'd let you all know how pleased I am with my new 58.
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post #655 of 1057 Old 06-13-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlyko View Post

Well I just connected my new 58. Upgraded from 47ai. Paid CAN350 new. Sold my 47ai for CAN150, so it cost me CAN250 with taxes. Watched my first DVD at 480P and am very pleased. Almost HD quality. Big jump from the 47's component out to 58's HDMI. Audio, I hear an improvement in micro detail and bottom end. Bought unit based on what I have read here on AVS. I needed a SD universal player with HDMI and good 2-channel analog out. Was looking at used 5910 or 3930 but read a lot about units needing service. Just thought I'd let you all know how pleased I am with my new 58.

Where did you get your Pio in Canada? (and for $350!!)
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post #656 of 1057 Old 06-14-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Unless you have a DVD player with high-end video processing, you really should try the DV-58AV for movies as well. You might be surprised!

As a new member I cannot even PM anybody to find out where to get one of these in Toronto. I'm hoping someone gets updates on their posts!
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post #657 of 1057 Old 06-14-2009, 03:45 PM
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Do you plan on listening to a lot of DVD-A/SACD discs? If so, do you plan on using the DV-58AV's analog outputs or its HDMI output? If you strictly plan on using HDMI, depending on what receiver you have, you might not need to spend the extra money on this player. The good receivers don't convert DSD to PCM, which provides more headroom in the extreme ends of the audio spectrum. The less expensive receivers more than likely convert DSD to PCM. What receiver and TV do you plan on using with your next player?
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post #658 of 1057 Old 06-14-2009, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinxMeister View Post

there are $99 CD players that sound just as good from the analog outs.

I am mostly interested in redbook playback, as most discs are 16/44.1.
But I also enjoy SACD and DVD audio (even through an older Pioneer 563a) and hear a significant difference on well mastered discs vs. their redbook counterparts (or layer).
Still, if you can find me a redbook player for $100 that makes standard CDs sound as good as a Pioneer 79avi through it's analog outputs; I'll buy it right now. In fact I'll probably buy as many as I can afford, re-badge them and start a business!

(Or were you using hyperbole to make a point?)
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post #659 of 1057 Old 06-14-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValjeanPhantom View Post

Do you plan on listening to a lot of DVD-A/SACD discs? If so, do you plan on using the DV-58AV's analog outputs or its HDMI output? If you strictly plan on using HDMI, depending on what receiver you have, you might not need to spend the extra money on this player. The good receivers don't convert DSD to PCM, which provides more headroom in the extreme ends of the audio spectrum. The less expensive receivers more than likely convert DSD to PCM. What receiver and TV do you plan on using with your next player?

Looks like I was writing the previous reply while you were typing yours to me!
Thanks for the response.

I'm gradually upgrading my system and want decent, reliable audio above all else. As I don't have enough money for two separate systems I'm pretty much stuck buying a universal player. I'll eventually get a plasma or maybe LED/LCD in the future, but I can wait. I don't rent many movies any more as I use the movie channel. Blue Ray is nice but I can do without it forever unless it becomes the standard.
Right now I'm using an older Yamaha receiver with 5.1 analog in. I use a dedicated headphone amp and Sennheiser HD650s for a lot of listening so the source is very important. I'm sure there are some questions I didn't answer but I don't type (or think) as quickly as I'd like to!
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post #660 of 1057 Old 06-14-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellenback View Post

Looks like I was writing the previous reply while you were typing yours to me!
Thanks for the response.

I'm gradually upgrading my system and want decent, reliable audio above all else. As I don't have enough money for two separate systems I'm pretty much stuck buying a universal player. I'll eventually get a plasma or maybe LED/LCD in the future, but I can wait. I don't rent many movies any more as I use the movie channel. Blue Ray is nice but I can do without it forever unless it becomes the standard.
Right now I'm using an older Yamaha receiver with 5.1 analog in. I use a dedicated headphone amp and Sennheiser HD650s for a lot of listening so the source is very important. I'm sure there are some questions I didn't answer but I don't type (or think) as quickly as I'd like to!

I use a 2006 model Yamaha HTR-5935 receiver with 5.1 analog inputs for audio. For video, I use a 1998-model 27" Magnavox CRT. I chose the DV-58AV because of its high-quality analog audio output, its future-proof HDMI output, and its build quality. I have it connected via S-video through an RF modulator. I'm sure that according to AVS standards, some might say my TV sucks, but even if I had the money, I don't really have enough room in my house to upgrade to all HD stuff, yet keep my old TV lying around as a spair. Besides, it's probibly due to die anytime now anyway.
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